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Belay loop configuration - horizontal versus vertical
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tpcollins


Dec 27, 2013, 7:04 AM
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Belay loop configuration - horizontal versus vertical
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I was leaning towards the BD Vario harness but the Petzl Aspir looks a bit more comfy. But I'm under the impression that these types with the horizontal belay loop is for beginners/instructors teaching students. But the majority of harnesses I see show a vertical belay loop - like the Corax.

In a fall, it would seem the horizontal type loop would first put tension on the waist strap and then the leg straps. With the vertical loop - like I see on most harnesses - it would appear the tension is first put on the legs straps and then the waist strap.

Is there a significant reasoning between the two styles? Thanks.


http://www.petzl.com/en/outdoor/mountaineering-and-climbing-harnesses/aspir

http://www.petzl.com/en/outdoor/mountaineering-and-climbing-harnesses/corax


gunkiemike


Dec 27, 2013, 7:59 AM
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Re: [tpcollins] Belay loop configuration - horizontal versus vertical [In reply to]
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No functional differences between these styles of harness - they will both do what you need a harness for. But there can be significant differences in comfort, so you should try these (as well as other models) on before buying. Having said that, a less-than-optimum harness isn't the train wreck that ill-fitting shoes are. Lots of folks climb for years in an OK harness before they discover a truly comfortable model.


lena_chita
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Dec 27, 2013, 5:20 PM
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Re: [tpcollins] Belay loop configuration - horizontal versus vertical [In reply to]
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tpcollins wrote:
I was leaning towards the BD Vario harness but the Petzl Aspir looks a bit more comfy. But I'm under the impression that these types with the horizontal belay loop is for beginners/instructors teaching students. But the majority of harnesses I see show a vertical belay loop - like the Corax.

In a fall, it would seem the horizontal type loop would first put tension on the waist strap and then the leg straps. With the vertical loop - like I see on most harnesses - it would appear the tension is first put on the legs straps and then the waist strap.

Is there a significant reasoning between the two styles? Thanks.


http://www.petzl.com/en/outdoor/mountaineering-and-climbing-harnesses/aspir

http://www.petzl.com/en/outdoor/mountaineering-and-climbing-harnesses/corax

What do you need this harness for?

Aspir is, essentially, a harness that attempts to make a low-end rental harness more comfortable, while maintaining wide range of adjustability, which you need in gym or guide settings, where you would be putting it on a bunch of differently-shaped people.

If you read the description of the harness, you will see that it is recommended for via ferrata, amusement parks, and they have mountaneering thrown in. All of the above are cases where you will be hardly ever hanging or falling in that harness.

Can you climb in that harness-- yes, of course. Will it be the best harness for sport climbing? No, I don't think so.

And you really should try the harness on, before you buy it. And ideally do it in a place where you can hang in it, to make sure that it fits you right.


marc801


Dec 28, 2013, 6:34 AM
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Re: [lena_chita] Belay loop configuration - horizontal versus vertical [In reply to]
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lena_chita wrote:
What do you need this harness for?

Based on his other threads:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ost=2640449;#2640449
and
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ost=2597057;#2597057

I'd guess as a safety harness in a hunting tree stand, not climbing.


tpcollins


Dec 28, 2013, 3:07 PM
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Re: [marc801] Belay loop configuration - horizontal versus vertical [In reply to]
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marc801 wrote:

Based on his other threads:

I'd guess as a safety harness in a hunting tree stand, not climbing.

tpcollins wrote:
I thought I'd ask the people that should know best..


Good job marc801, but if you needed some electrical advice, wouldn't it make sense to ask an electrician?


marc801


Dec 28, 2013, 3:43 PM
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Re: [tpcollins] Belay loop configuration - horizontal versus vertical [In reply to]
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tpcollins wrote:
marc801 wrote:

Based on his other threads:

I'd guess as a safety harness in a hunting tree stand, not climbing.

tpcollins wrote:
I thought I'd ask the people that should know best..


Good job marc801, but if you needed some electrical advice, wouldn't it make sense to ask an electrician?

Why do you have a burr up your butt? I was answering lena_chita and pointed out it wasn't for climbing. There was no value judgement placed on you or where you decided to ask.


tpcollins


Dec 28, 2013, 4:24 PM
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Re: [marc801] Belay loop configuration - horizontal versus vertical [In reply to]
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I was giving you and the forum a compliment, sounds like that burr is somewhere else.


edge


Dec 28, 2013, 6:25 PM
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Re: [marc801] Belay loop configuration - horizontal versus vertical [In reply to]
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marc801 wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
What do you need this harness for?

Based on his other threads:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ost=2640449;#2640449
and
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ost=2597057;#2597057

I'd guess as a safety harness in a hunting tree stand, not climbing.

I'm kinda curious now. How common is it to see an armed person dangling from the forest canopy and below a tree stand? Personally, I've never seen it.


marc801


Dec 29, 2013, 1:42 PM
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Re: [tpcollins] Belay loop configuration - horizontal versus vertical [In reply to]
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tpcollins wrote:
I was giving you and the forum a compliment, sounds like that burr is somewhere else.

Maybe because it was a back-handed compliment and that in your other threads you've left an antagonistic impression:

tpcollins wrote:
I was hoping to get some advice on this forum without the sarcasm - maybe I need to ask on a different forum.

But if I fall from a tree stand, and I'm wearing a rock climbing harness, I have an 11mm rope tied off above me, and it's routed properly thru a figure 8/rescue 8 on my lap, and if I can't get back to the stand, I should be able to safely rappel down to the ground.

I also think I'm smart enough to first try this at a short distance off the ground until I can successfully manipulate the rescue 8 and rope. If I don't feel I can, I'll continue to use my regular safety harness. Just because I'm not already an ordained rock climber doesn't mean I can't learn how to.


billl7


Dec 30, 2013, 6:12 AM
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Re: [marc801] Belay loop configuration - horizontal versus vertical [In reply to]
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Strictly based on this thread, I'll inject that common courtesy in a 'conversation' is to not answer a question directed at someone else. ... but then this is the wild wild west.Pirate


joeforte


Dec 30, 2013, 7:45 PM
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Re: [edge] Belay loop configuration - horizontal versus vertical [In reply to]
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edge wrote:
marc801 wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
What do you need this harness for?

Based on his other threads:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ost=2640449;#2640449
and
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ost=2597057;#2597057

I'd guess as a safety harness in a hunting tree stand, not climbing.

I'm kinda curious now. How common is it to see an armed person dangling from the forest canopy and below a tree stand? Personally, I've never seen it.

They don't hang from the harness. It is used for protection in case they fall out of their tree stand.


edge


Dec 30, 2013, 8:26 PM
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Re: [joeforte] Belay loop configuration - horizontal versus vertical [In reply to]
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joeforte wrote:
edge wrote:
marc801 wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
What do you need this harness for?

Based on his other threads:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ost=2640449;#2640449
and
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ost=2597057;#2597057

I'd guess as a safety harness in a hunting tree stand, not climbing.

I'm kinda curious now. How common is it to see an armed person dangling from the forest canopy and below a tree stand? Personally, I've never seen it.

They don't hang from the harness. It is used for protection in case they fall out of their tree stand.

I realize that. My question is: how often do hunters, who I presume are clutching weapons, fall out of tree stands? I'd rather take a lead fall on ice.


billl7


Dec 30, 2013, 8:31 PM
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Re: [edge] Belay loop configuration - horizontal versus vertical [In reply to]
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Don't know how often. But there was a case last fall (?). Severe paralysis - emphatic that life support be turned off. And it was.


marc801


Dec 31, 2013, 8:01 AM
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Re: [billl7] Belay loop configuration - horizontal versus vertical [In reply to]
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billl7 wrote:
Strictly based on this thread, I'll inject that common courtesy in a 'conversation' is to not answer a question directed at someone else. ... but then this is the wild wild west.Pirate
In a conversation, yes - on an internet discussion forum, no.


billl7


Dec 31, 2013, 9:55 AM
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Re: [marc801] Belay loop configuration - horizontal versus vertical [In reply to]
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marc801 wrote:
billl7 wrote:
Strictly based on this thread, I'll inject that common courtesy in a 'conversation' is to not answer a question directed at someone else. ... but then this is the wild wild west.Pirate
In a conversation, yes - on an internet discussion forum, no.
No offense to you intended. Not all share that view. I am not the only one it came across as a little rude. Seems an unnecessary risk of growing mole hills into mountains with obviously less benefit than the more natural course that things had been heading.


marc801


Dec 31, 2013, 10:18 AM
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Re: [billl7] Belay loop configuration - horizontal versus vertical [In reply to]
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billl7 wrote:
marc801 wrote:
billl7 wrote:
Strictly based on this thread, I'll inject that common courtesy in a 'conversation' is to not answer a question directed at someone else. ... but then this is the wild wild west.Pirate
In a conversation, yes - on an internet discussion forum, no.
No offense to you intended. Not all share that view. I am not the only one it came across as a little rude.

Yet just above this exchange, you answered a question edge asked of joeforte.


gunkiemike


Dec 31, 2013, 10:21 AM
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Re: [billl7] Belay loop configuration - horizontal versus vertical [In reply to]
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billl7 wrote:
Don't know how often. But there was a case last fall (?). Severe paralysis - emphatic that life support be turned off. And it was.

Another case several years ago - hunter fell and (apparently wasn't harnessed) got wedged in a crotch of the tree. Injured and in great pain, and unable to free himself, he used his gun to kill himself.


billl7


Dec 31, 2013, 10:34 AM
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Re: [marc801] Belay loop configuration - horizontal versus vertical [In reply to]
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marc801 wrote:
billl7 wrote:
marc801 wrote:
billl7 wrote:
Strictly based on this thread, I'll inject that common courtesy in a 'conversation' is to not answer a question directed at someone else. ... but then this is the wild wild west.Pirate
In a conversation, yes - on an internet discussion forum, no.
No offense to you intended. Not all share that view. I am not the only one it came across as a little rude.

Yet just above this exchange, you answered a question edge asked of joeforte.
Hah! In that case I didn't answer the question (as indicated) because I don't know the answer ... plus jf had already had the chance of a reply ... and to a question that wasn't personal in the first place. Angelic


(This post was edited by billl7 on Dec 31, 2013, 10:34 AM)


Partner cracklover


Aug 6, 2014, 5:59 AM
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Re: [edge] Belay loop configuration - horizontal versus vertical [In reply to]
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Thought it was worth dredging up a six-month-old thread to respond to this part...

edge wrote:
joeforte wrote:
edge wrote:
marc801 wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
What do you need this harness for?

Based on his other threads:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ost=2640449;#2640449
and
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ost=2597057;#2597057

I'd guess as a safety harness in a hunting tree stand, not climbing.

I'm kinda curious now. How common is it to see an armed person dangling from the forest canopy and below a tree stand? Personally, I've never seen it.

They don't hang from the harness. It is used for protection in case they fall out of their tree stand.

I realize that. My question is: how often do hunters, who I presume are clutching weapons, fall out of tree stands? I'd rather take a lead fall on ice.

I recently took a hunting safety class. Based on stuff the instructors said, some fall frequently, some, never.

For example, it was obvious that the guy who taught the tree-stand part of the class had never fallen out of the stand. He pretty much said that he was supposed to tell us to always be hooked into your safety rope, but once you're up in the stand, he always took his off. It was obvious from his instruction of what to do if you fall on your safety rope that he had never done it, and wouldn't have a clue what to do if it ever really happened to him.

On the other hand, another one of our instructors clearly falls asleep, and would fall off his stand several times a season, if it weren't for his safety line. Instead all that happens is he slumps over, it catches him, and he sits back up.

So I suspect that the answer to your original question - " How common is it to see an armed person dangling from the forest canopy and below a tree stand?" is "approximately never".

They either fall to the ground because they're not anchored in (or not anchored in properly), or their harness catches them before they actually fall all the way below the stand.

GO


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