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climbingtrash
Jan 17, 2014, 11:55 PM
Post #101951 of 105309
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Registered: Jan 19, 2006
Posts: 5114
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I remember whut a PTFTW iz?!?
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climbingtrash
Jan 17, 2014, 11:55 PM
Post #101952 of 105309
(4287 views)
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Registered: Jan 19, 2006
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wo0?!?
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climbingtrash
Jan 17, 2014, 11:55 PM
Post #101953 of 105309
(4287 views)
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Registered: Jan 19, 2006
Posts: 5114
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durp
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climbingtrash
Jan 17, 2014, 11:55 PM
Post #101954 of 105309
(4287 views)
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Registered: Jan 19, 2006
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suk it sn00b!
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dr_feelgood
Jan 18, 2014, 5:59 PM
Post #101955 of 105309
(4253 views)
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Registered: Apr 6, 2004
Posts: 26060
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snoopy138 wrote: lena_chita wrote: caughtinside wrote: lena_chita wrote: Completely out of character for BET< but I thought this was a good read: http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2014/01/do_what_you_love_love_what_you_do_an_omnipresent_mantra_that_s_bad_for_work.2.html In reply to: Nowhere has the DWYL mantra been more devastating to its adherents than in academia. The average Ph.D. student of the mid-2000s forwent the easy money of finance and law (now slightly less easy) to live on a meager stipend in order to pursue his passion for Norse mythology or the history of Afro-Cuban music. The reward for answering this higher calling is an academic employment marketplace in which about 41 percent of American faculty are adjunct professors—contract instructors who usually receive low pay, no benefits, no office, no job security, and no long-term stake in the schools where they work. There are many factors that keep Ph.D.s providing such high-skilled labor for such low wages, including path dependency and the sunk costs of earning a Ph.D., but one of the strongest is how pervasively the DWYL doctrine is embedded in academia. Few other professions fuse the personal identity of their workers so intimately with the work output. Because academic research should be done out of pure love, the actual conditions of and compensation for this labor become afterthoughts, if they are considered at all. In “Academic Labor, the Aesthetics of Management, and the Promise of Autonomous Work,” Sarah Brouillette writes of academic faculty, “[O]ur faith that our work offers non-material rewards, and is more integral to our identity than a ‘regular’ job would be, makes us ideal employees when the goal of management is to extract our labor’s maximum value at minimum cost.” I'm thinking of you, camhead, Doc... and myself, of course. If 41% of professors are way underpaid adjuncts, why is college so fucking expensive now? You've got to support the college athletics program! Football, man! And basketball... At many schools that spend significantly on football and basketball, those programs generate enough money to easily support themselves, including the exorbitant head coaches salaries, and often cover a lot of the additional athletic costs.
I'd like to see sources for this. Sure, some may be self-sustaining, but there is the penis-measuring contest of all the other schools that are mandated by social pressure to have a football(or ski, or water polo, or midget curling) team at every university certainly means that a lot of the less successful schools are losing a fair amount of money into the athletic black hole.
I mostly blame the decrease in state support and funding for public institutions. Call me a commie, but I think states (and their taxpayers) have a duty to support their students, as this support will pay dividends in the future. Unless you live in a shitty state with an aging population and youth flight(connecticut).
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granite_grrl
Jan 18, 2014, 6:11 PM
Post #101956 of 105309
(4249 views)
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Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 15084
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dr_feelgood wrote: snoopy138 wrote: lena_chita wrote: caughtinside wrote: lena_chita wrote: Completely out of character for BET< but I thought this was a good read: http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2014/01/do_what_you_love_love_what_you_do_an_omnipresent_mantra_that_s_bad_for_work.2.html In reply to: Nowhere has the DWYL mantra been more devastating to its adherents than in academia. The average Ph.D. student of the mid-2000s forwent the easy money of finance and law (now slightly less easy) to live on a meager stipend in order to pursue his passion for Norse mythology or the history of Afro-Cuban music. The reward for answering this higher calling is an academic employment marketplace in which about 41 percent of American faculty are adjunct professors—contract instructors who usually receive low pay, no benefits, no office, no job security, and no long-term stake in the schools where they work. There are many factors that keep Ph.D.s providing such high-skilled labor for such low wages, including path dependency and the sunk costs of earning a Ph.D., but one of the strongest is how pervasively the DWYL doctrine is embedded in academia. Few other professions fuse the personal identity of their workers so intimately with the work output. Because academic research should be done out of pure love, the actual conditions of and compensation for this labor become afterthoughts, if they are considered at all. In “Academic Labor, the Aesthetics of Management, and the Promise of Autonomous Work,” Sarah Brouillette writes of academic faculty, “[O]ur faith that our work offers non-material rewards, and is more integral to our identity than a ‘regular’ job would be, makes us ideal employees when the goal of management is to extract our labor’s maximum value at minimum cost.” I'm thinking of you, camhead, Doc... and myself, of course. If 41% of professors are way underpaid adjuncts, why is college so fucking expensive now? You've got to support the college athletics program! Football, man! And basketball... At many schools that spend significantly on football and basketball, those programs generate enough money to easily support themselves, including the exorbitant head coaches salaries, and often cover a lot of the additional athletic costs. I'd like to see sources for this. Sure, some may be self-sustaining, but there is the penis-measuring contest of all the other schools that are mandated by social pressure to have a football(or ski, or water polo, or midget curling) team at every university certainly means that a lot of the less successful schools are losing a fair amount of money into the athletic black hole. I mostly blame the decrease in state support and funding for public institutions. Call me a commie, but I think states (and their taxpayers) have a duty to support their students, as this support will pay dividends in the future. Unless you live in a shitty state with an aging population and youth flight(connecticut).
What's the cost to go to school in the States now? For classes and books I remember paying maybe $3.5k a semester (taking 6 classes instead of the regular 5 classes per semester), so $7k a year total (two semesters).
Talking to a guy at running this morning his daughter is going to school for ~$15k a year, but that includes living in a dorm. Which didn't seem too bad.
Oh, and in Canada there's no such thing as a state University. Cost would have been similar going to another University. I think as a resident in Quebec you get a big break though (the province of Quebec has the most social programs in Canada, but they also have the highest taxes. They seem happy with this).
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lena_chita
Moderator
Jan 19, 2014, 4:40 PM
Post #101957 of 105309
(4215 views)
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Registered: Jun 27, 2006
Posts: 6087
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granite_grrl wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: snoopy138 wrote: lena_chita wrote: caughtinside wrote: lena_chita wrote: Completely out of character for BET< but I thought this was a good read: http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2014/01/do_what_you_love_love_what_you_do_an_omnipresent_mantra_that_s_bad_for_work.2.html In reply to: Nowhere has the DWYL mantra been more devastating to its adherents than in academia. The average Ph.D. student of the mid-2000s forwent the easy money of finance and law (now slightly less easy) to live on a meager stipend in order to pursue his passion for Norse mythology or the history of Afro-Cuban music. The reward for answering this higher calling is an academic employment marketplace in which about 41 percent of American faculty are adjunct professors—contract instructors who usually receive low pay, no benefits, no office, no job security, and no long-term stake in the schools where they work. There are many factors that keep Ph.D.s providing such high-skilled labor for such low wages, including path dependency and the sunk costs of earning a Ph.D., but one of the strongest is how pervasively the DWYL doctrine is embedded in academia. Few other professions fuse the personal identity of their workers so intimately with the work output. Because academic research should be done out of pure love, the actual conditions of and compensation for this labor become afterthoughts, if they are considered at all. In “Academic Labor, the Aesthetics of Management, and the Promise of Autonomous Work,” Sarah Brouillette writes of academic faculty, “[O]ur faith that our work offers non-material rewards, and is more integral to our identity than a ‘regular’ job would be, makes us ideal employees when the goal of management is to extract our labor’s maximum value at minimum cost.” I'm thinking of you, camhead, Doc... and myself, of course. If 41% of professors are way underpaid adjuncts, why is college so fucking expensive now? You've got to support the college athletics program! Football, man! And basketball... At many schools that spend significantly on football and basketball, those programs generate enough money to easily support themselves, including the exorbitant head coaches salaries, and often cover a lot of the additional athletic costs. I'd like to see sources for this. Sure, some may be self-sustaining, but there is the penis-measuring contest of all the other schools that are mandated by social pressure to have a football(or ski, or water polo, or midget curling) team at every university certainly means that a lot of the less successful schools are losing a fair amount of money into the athletic black hole. I mostly blame the decrease in state support and funding for public institutions. Call me a commie, but I think states (and their taxpayers) have a duty to support their students, as this support will pay dividends in the future. Unless you live in a shitty state with an aging population and youth flight(connecticut). What's the cost to go to school in the States now? For classes and books I remember paying maybe $3.5k a semester (taking 6 classes instead of the regular 5 classes per semester), so $7k a year total (two semesters). Talking to a guy at running this morning his daughter is going to school for ~$15k a year, but that includes living in a dorm. Which didn't seem too bad. Oh, and in Canada there's no such thing as a state University. Cost would have been similar going to another University. I think as a resident in Quebec you get a big break though (the province of Quebec has the most social programs in Canada, but they also have the highest taxes. They seem happy with this).
I don't know what the average is, but I have heard $35k-50K. At Case, undergrad tuition is $41,420.00 for full-time. But it is misleading, somewhat, bc hardly anybody actually pays that, because of various grants, etc. Still, $41K? That is STAGGERING!
(source: http://www.case.edu/...r/bursar/tuition.htm)
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granite_grrl
Jan 20, 2014, 12:20 AM
Post #101958 of 105309
(4198 views)
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Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 15084
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lena_chita wrote: granite_grrl wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: snoopy138 wrote: lena_chita wrote: caughtinside wrote: lena_chita wrote: Completely out of character for BET< but I thought this was a good read: http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2014/01/do_what_you_love_love_what_you_do_an_omnipresent_mantra_that_s_bad_for_work.2.html In reply to: Nowhere has the DWYL mantra been more devastating to its adherents than in academia. The average Ph.D. student of the mid-2000s forwent the easy money of finance and law (now slightly less easy) to live on a meager stipend in order to pursue his passion for Norse mythology or the history of Afro-Cuban music. The reward for answering this higher calling is an academic employment marketplace in which about 41 percent of American faculty are adjunct professors—contract instructors who usually receive low pay, no benefits, no office, no job security, and no long-term stake in the schools where they work. There are many factors that keep Ph.D.s providing such high-skilled labor for such low wages, including path dependency and the sunk costs of earning a Ph.D., but one of the strongest is how pervasively the DWYL doctrine is embedded in academia. Few other professions fuse the personal identity of their workers so intimately with the work output. Because academic research should be done out of pure love, the actual conditions of and compensation for this labor become afterthoughts, if they are considered at all. In “Academic Labor, the Aesthetics of Management, and the Promise of Autonomous Work,” Sarah Brouillette writes of academic faculty, “[O]ur faith that our work offers non-material rewards, and is more integral to our identity than a ‘regular’ job would be, makes us ideal employees when the goal of management is to extract our labor’s maximum value at minimum cost.” I'm thinking of you, camhead, Doc... and myself, of course. If 41% of professors are way underpaid adjuncts, why is college so fucking expensive now? You've got to support the college athletics program! Football, man! And basketball... At many schools that spend significantly on football and basketball, those programs generate enough money to easily support themselves, including the exorbitant head coaches salaries, and often cover a lot of the additional athletic costs. I'd like to see sources for this. Sure, some may be self-sustaining, but there is the penis-measuring contest of all the other schools that are mandated by social pressure to have a football(or ski, or water polo, or midget curling) team at every university certainly means that a lot of the less successful schools are losing a fair amount of money into the athletic black hole. I mostly blame the decrease in state support and funding for public institutions. Call me a commie, but I think states (and their taxpayers) have a duty to support their students, as this support will pay dividends in the future. Unless you live in a shitty state with an aging population and youth flight(connecticut). What's the cost to go to school in the States now? For classes and books I remember paying maybe $3.5k a semester (taking 6 classes instead of the regular 5 classes per semester), so $7k a year total (two semesters). Talking to a guy at running this morning his daughter is going to school for ~$15k a year, but that includes living in a dorm. Which didn't seem too bad. Oh, and in Canada there's no such thing as a state University. Cost would have been similar going to another University. I think as a resident in Quebec you get a big break though (the province of Quebec has the most social programs in Canada, but they also have the highest taxes. They seem happy with this). I don't know what the average is, but I have heard $35k-50K. At Case, undergrad tuition is $41,420.00 for full-time. But it is misleading, somewhat, bc hardly anybody actually pays that, because of various grants, etc. Still, $41K? That is STAGGERING! (source: http://www.case.edu/...r/bursar/tuition.htm)
$41k, holey smokes!
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granite_grrl
Jan 20, 2014, 12:21 AM
Post #101959 of 105309
(4196 views)
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Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 15084
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So you know what's the one thing more terrifying then driving through snow drifting on a secondary highway? Driving a Honda Fit trough drifting snow on a secondary highway.
That little car is not made for winters.
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macherry
Jan 20, 2014, 12:58 AM
Post #101960 of 105309
(4187 views)
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Registered: Sep 10, 2003
Posts: 15848
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granite_grrl wrote: So you know what's the one thing more terrifying then driving through snow drifting on a secondary highway? Driving a Honda Fit trough drifting snow on a secondary highway. That little car is not made for winters.
this is true. we have a fit, well the husband drives it. can get a little squirrely in slushy, snowy highways
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granite_grrl
Jan 20, 2014, 1:10 AM
Post #101961 of 105309
(4186 views)
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Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 15084
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macherry wrote: granite_grrl wrote: So you know what's the one thing more terrifying then driving through snow drifting on a secondary highway? Driving a Honda Fit trough drifting snow on a secondary highway. That little car is not made for winters. this is true. we have a fit, well the husband drives it. can get a little squirrely in slushy, snowy highways
We've got snow tires, but the car weighs so little it just gets tossed around in the snow.
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dr_feelgood
Jan 20, 2014, 2:15 AM
Post #101962 of 105309
(4180 views)
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Registered: Apr 6, 2004
Posts: 26060
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granite_grrl wrote: lena_chita wrote: granite_grrl wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: snoopy138 wrote: lena_chita wrote: caughtinside wrote: lena_chita wrote: Completely out of character for BET< but I thought this was a good read: http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2014/01/do_what_you_love_love_what_you_do_an_omnipresent_mantra_that_s_bad_for_work.2.html In reply to: Nowhere has the DWYL mantra been more devastating to its adherents than in academia. The average Ph.D. student of the mid-2000s forwent the easy money of finance and law (now slightly less easy) to live on a meager stipend in order to pursue his passion for Norse mythology or the history of Afro-Cuban music. The reward for answering this higher calling is an academic employment marketplace in which about 41 percent of American faculty are adjunct professors—contract instructors who usually receive low pay, no benefits, no office, no job security, and no long-term stake in the schools where they work. There are many factors that keep Ph.D.s providing such high-skilled labor for such low wages, including path dependency and the sunk costs of earning a Ph.D., but one of the strongest is how pervasively the DWYL doctrine is embedded in academia. Few other professions fuse the personal identity of their workers so intimately with the work output. Because academic research should be done out of pure love, the actual conditions of and compensation for this labor become afterthoughts, if they are considered at all. In “Academic Labor, the Aesthetics of Management, and the Promise of Autonomous Work,” Sarah Brouillette writes of academic faculty, “[O]ur faith that our work offers non-material rewards, and is more integral to our identity than a ‘regular’ job would be, makes us ideal employees when the goal of management is to extract our labor’s maximum value at minimum cost.” I'm thinking of you, camhead, Doc... and myself, of course. If 41% of professors are way underpaid adjuncts, why is college so fucking expensive now? You've got to support the college athletics program! Football, man! And basketball... At many schools that spend significantly on football and basketball, those programs generate enough money to easily support themselves, including the exorbitant head coaches salaries, and often cover a lot of the additional athletic costs. I'd like to see sources for this. Sure, some may be self-sustaining, but there is the penis-measuring contest of all the other schools that are mandated by social pressure to have a football(or ski, or water polo, or midget curling) team at every university certainly means that a lot of the less successful schools are losing a fair amount of money into the athletic black hole. I mostly blame the decrease in state support and funding for public institutions. Call me a commie, but I think states (and their taxpayers) have a duty to support their students, as this support will pay dividends in the future. Unless you live in a shitty state with an aging population and youth flight(connecticut). What's the cost to go to school in the States now? For classes and books I remember paying maybe $3.5k a semester (taking 6 classes instead of the regular 5 classes per semester), so $7k a year total (two semesters). Talking to a guy at running this morning his daughter is going to school for ~$15k a year, but that includes living in a dorm. Which didn't seem too bad. Oh, and in Canada there's no such thing as a state University. Cost would have been similar going to another University. I think as a resident in Quebec you get a big break though (the province of Quebec has the most social programs in Canada, but they also have the highest taxes. They seem happy with this). I don't know what the average is, but I have heard $35k-50K. At Case, undergrad tuition is $41,420.00 for full-time. But it is misleading, somewhat, bc hardly anybody actually pays that, because of various grants, etc. Still, $41K? That is STAGGERING! (source: http://www.case.edu/...r/bursar/tuition.htm) $41k, holey smokes!
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caughtinside
Jan 20, 2014, 3:45 AM
Post #101963 of 105309
(4172 views)
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Registered: Jan 8, 2003
Posts: 30603
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dr_feelgood wrote: granite_grrl wrote: lena_chita wrote: granite_grrl wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: snoopy138 wrote: lena_chita wrote: caughtinside wrote: lena_chita wrote: Completely out of character for BET< but I thought this was a good read: http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2014/01/do_what_you_love_love_what_you_do_an_omnipresent_mantra_that_s_bad_for_work.2.html In reply to: Nowhere has the DWYL mantra been more devastating to its adherents than in academia. The average Ph.D. student of the mid-2000s forwent the easy money of finance and law (now slightly less easy) to live on a meager stipend in order to pursue his passion for Norse mythology or the history of Afro-Cuban music. The reward for answering this higher calling is an academic employment marketplace in which about 41 percent of American faculty are adjunct professors—contract instructors who usually receive low pay, no benefits, no office, no job security, and no long-term stake in the schools where they work. There are many factors that keep Ph.D.s providing such high-skilled labor for such low wages, including path dependency and the sunk costs of earning a Ph.D., but one of the strongest is how pervasively the DWYL doctrine is embedded in academia. Few other professions fuse the personal identity of their workers so intimately with the work output. Because academic research should be done out of pure love, the actual conditions of and compensation for this labor become afterthoughts, if they are considered at all. In “Academic Labor, the Aesthetics of Management, and the Promise of Autonomous Work,” Sarah Brouillette writes of academic faculty, “[O]ur faith that our work offers non-material rewards, and is more integral to our identity than a ‘regular’ job would be, makes us ideal employees when the goal of management is to extract our labor’s maximum value at minimum cost.” I'm thinking of you, camhead, Doc... and myself, of course. If 41% of professors are way underpaid adjuncts, why is college so fucking expensive now? You've got to support the college athletics program! Football, man! And basketball... At many schools that spend significantly on football and basketball, those programs generate enough money to easily support themselves, including the exorbitant head coaches salaries, and often cover a lot of the additional athletic costs. I'd like to see sources for this. Sure, some may be self-sustaining, but there is the penis-measuring contest of all the other schools that are mandated by social pressure to have a football(or ski, or water polo, or midget curling) team at every university certainly means that a lot of the less successful schools are losing a fair amount of money into the athletic black hole. I mostly blame the decrease in state support and funding for public institutions. Call me a commie, but I think states (and their taxpayers) have a duty to support their students, as this support will pay dividends in the future. Unless you live in a shitty state with an aging population and youth flight(connecticut). What's the cost to go to school in the States now? For classes and books I remember paying maybe $3.5k a semester (taking 6 classes instead of the regular 5 classes per semester), so $7k a year total (two semesters). Talking to a guy at running this morning his daughter is going to school for ~$15k a year, but that includes living in a dorm. Which didn't seem too bad. Oh, and in Canada there's no such thing as a state University. Cost would have been similar going to another University. I think as a resident in Quebec you get a big break though (the province of Quebec has the most social programs in Canada, but they also have the highest taxes. They seem happy with this). I don't know what the average is, but I have heard $35k-50K. At Case, undergrad tuition is $41,420.00 for full-time. But it is misleading, somewhat, bc hardly anybody actually pays that, because of various grants, etc. Still, $41K? That is STAGGERING! (source: http://www.case.edu/...r/bursar/tuition.htm) $41k, holey smokes! 16k a year for MT residents, 30k a year for out of state students at MSU.
My first year of grad School was 11k. My third year was 24k.
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camhead
Jan 20, 2014, 1:41 PM
Post #101964 of 105309
(4154 views)
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Registered: Sep 10, 2001
Posts: 20939
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caughtinside wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: granite_grrl wrote: lena_chita wrote: granite_grrl wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: snoopy138 wrote: lena_chita wrote: caughtinside wrote: lena_chita wrote: Completely out of character for BET< but I thought this was a good read: http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2014/01/do_what_you_love_love_what_you_do_an_omnipresent_mantra_that_s_bad_for_work.2.html In reply to: Nowhere has the DWYL mantra been more devastating to its adherents than in academia. The average Ph.D. student of the mid-2000s forwent the easy money of finance and law (now slightly less easy) to live on a meager stipend in order to pursue his passion for Norse mythology or the history of Afro-Cuban music. The reward for answering this higher calling is an academic employment marketplace in which about 41 percent of American faculty are adjunct professors—contract instructors who usually receive low pay, no benefits, no office, no job security, and no long-term stake in the schools where they work. There are many factors that keep Ph.D.s providing such high-skilled labor for such low wages, including path dependency and the sunk costs of earning a Ph.D., but one of the strongest is how pervasively the DWYL doctrine is embedded in academia. Few other professions fuse the personal identity of their workers so intimately with the work output. Because academic research should be done out of pure love, the actual conditions of and compensation for this labor become afterthoughts, if they are considered at all. In “Academic Labor, the Aesthetics of Management, and the Promise of Autonomous Work,” Sarah Brouillette writes of academic faculty, “[O]ur faith that our work offers non-material rewards, and is more integral to our identity than a ‘regular’ job would be, makes us ideal employees when the goal of management is to extract our labor’s maximum value at minimum cost.” I'm thinking of you, camhead, Doc... and myself, of course. If 41% of professors are way underpaid adjuncts, why is college so fucking expensive now? You've got to support the college athletics program! Football, man! And basketball... At many schools that spend significantly on football and basketball, those programs generate enough money to easily support themselves, including the exorbitant head coaches salaries, and often cover a lot of the additional athletic costs. I'd like to see sources for this. Sure, some may be self-sustaining, but there is the penis-measuring contest of all the other schools that are mandated by social pressure to have a football(or ski, or water polo, or midget curling) team at every university certainly means that a lot of the less successful schools are losing a fair amount of money into the athletic black hole. I mostly blame the decrease in state support and funding for public institutions. Call me a commie, but I think states (and their taxpayers) have a duty to support their students, as this support will pay dividends in the future. Unless you live in a shitty state with an aging population and youth flight(connecticut). What's the cost to go to school in the States now? For classes and books I remember paying maybe $3.5k a semester (taking 6 classes instead of the regular 5 classes per semester), so $7k a year total (two semesters). Talking to a guy at running this morning his daughter is going to school for ~$15k a year, but that includes living in a dorm. Which didn't seem too bad. Oh, and in Canada there's no such thing as a state University. Cost would have been similar going to another University. I think as a resident in Quebec you get a big break though (the province of Quebec has the most social programs in Canada, but they also have the highest taxes. They seem happy with this). I don't know what the average is, but I have heard $35k-50K. At Case, undergrad tuition is $41,420.00 for full-time. But it is misleading, somewhat, bc hardly anybody actually pays that, because of various grants, etc. Still, $41K? That is STAGGERING! (source: http://www.case.edu/...r/bursar/tuition.htm) $41k, holey smokes! 16k a year for MT residents, 30k a year for out of state students at MSU. My first year of grad School was 11k. My third year was 24k.
Fortunately, I got all my higher ed for free, which was lucky since it hasn't really gotten me jack shit.
I always appreciated the double irony, as an adjunct professor, of teaching 21 year olds with five figures of debt about how terrible and outdated colonial indentured servitude was.
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lena_chita
Moderator
Jan 20, 2014, 2:55 PM
Post #101965 of 105309
(4147 views)
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Registered: Jun 27, 2006
Posts: 6087
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camhead wrote: caughtinside wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: granite_grrl wrote: lena_chita wrote: granite_grrl wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: snoopy138 wrote: lena_chita wrote: caughtinside wrote: lena_chita wrote: Completely out of character for BET< but I thought this was a good read: http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2014/01/do_what_you_love_love_what_you_do_an_omnipresent_mantra_that_s_bad_for_work.2.html In reply to: Nowhere has the DWYL mantra been more devastating to its adherents than in academia. The average Ph.D. student of the mid-2000s forwent the easy money of finance and law (now slightly less easy) to live on a meager stipend in order to pursue his passion for Norse mythology or the history of Afro-Cuban music. The reward for answering this higher calling is an academic employment marketplace in which about 41 percent of American faculty are adjunct professors—contract instructors who usually receive low pay, no benefits, no office, no job security, and no long-term stake in the schools where they work. There are many factors that keep Ph.D.s providing such high-skilled labor for such low wages, including path dependency and the sunk costs of earning a Ph.D., but one of the strongest is how pervasively the DWYL doctrine is embedded in academia. Few other professions fuse the personal identity of their workers so intimately with the work output. Because academic research should be done out of pure love, the actual conditions of and compensation for this labor become afterthoughts, if they are considered at all. In “Academic Labor, the Aesthetics of Management, and the Promise of Autonomous Work,” Sarah Brouillette writes of academic faculty, “[O]ur faith that our work offers non-material rewards, and is more integral to our identity than a ‘regular’ job would be, makes us ideal employees when the goal of management is to extract our labor’s maximum value at minimum cost.” I'm thinking of you, camhead, Doc... and myself, of course. If 41% of professors are way underpaid adjuncts, why is college so fucking expensive now? You've got to support the college athletics program! Football, man! And basketball... At many schools that spend significantly on football and basketball, those programs generate enough money to easily support themselves, including the exorbitant head coaches salaries, and often cover a lot of the additional athletic costs. I'd like to see sources for this. Sure, some may be self-sustaining, but there is the penis-measuring contest of all the other schools that are mandated by social pressure to have a football(or ski, or water polo, or midget curling) team at every university certainly means that a lot of the less successful schools are losing a fair amount of money into the athletic black hole. I mostly blame the decrease in state support and funding for public institutions. Call me a commie, but I think states (and their taxpayers) have a duty to support their students, as this support will pay dividends in the future. Unless you live in a shitty state with an aging population and youth flight(connecticut). What's the cost to go to school in the States now? For classes and books I remember paying maybe $3.5k a semester (taking 6 classes instead of the regular 5 classes per semester), so $7k a year total (two semesters). Talking to a guy at running this morning his daughter is going to school for ~$15k a year, but that includes living in a dorm. Which didn't seem too bad. Oh, and in Canada there's no such thing as a state University. Cost would have been similar going to another University. I think as a resident in Quebec you get a big break though (the province of Quebec has the most social programs in Canada, but they also have the highest taxes. They seem happy with this). I don't know what the average is, but I have heard $35k-50K. At Case, undergrad tuition is $41,420.00 for full-time. But it is misleading, somewhat, bc hardly anybody actually pays that, because of various grants, etc. Still, $41K? That is STAGGERING! (source: http://www.case.edu/...r/bursar/tuition.htm) $41k, holey smokes! 16k a year for MT residents, 30k a year for out of state students at MSU. My first year of grad School was 11k. My third year was 24k. Fortunately, I got all my higher ed for free, which was lucky since it hasn't really gotten me jack shit. I always appreciated the double irony, as an adjunct professor, of teaching 21 year olds with five figures of debt about how terrible and outdated colonial indentured servitude was.
No kidding
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dr_feelgood
Jan 20, 2014, 4:31 PM
Post #101966 of 105309
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Registered: Apr 6, 2004
Posts: 26060
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camhead wrote: caughtinside wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: granite_grrl wrote: lena_chita wrote: granite_grrl wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: snoopy138 wrote: lena_chita wrote: caughtinside wrote: lena_chita wrote: Completely out of character for BET< but I thought this was a good read: http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2014/01/do_what_you_love_love_what_you_do_an_omnipresent_mantra_that_s_bad_for_work.2.html In reply to: Nowhere has the DWYL mantra been more devastating to its adherents than in academia. The average Ph.D. student of the mid-2000s forwent the easy money of finance and law (now slightly less easy) to live on a meager stipend in order to pursue his passion for Norse mythology or the history of Afro-Cuban music. The reward for answering this higher calling is an academic employment marketplace in which about 41 percent of American faculty are adjunct professors—contract instructors who usually receive low pay, no benefits, no office, no job security, and no long-term stake in the schools where they work. There are many factors that keep Ph.D.s providing such high-skilled labor for such low wages, including path dependency and the sunk costs of earning a Ph.D., but one of the strongest is how pervasively the DWYL doctrine is embedded in academia. Few other professions fuse the personal identity of their workers so intimately with the work output. Because academic research should be done out of pure love, the actual conditions of and compensation for this labor become afterthoughts, if they are considered at all. In “Academic Labor, the Aesthetics of Management, and the Promise of Autonomous Work,” Sarah Brouillette writes of academic faculty, “[O]ur faith that our work offers non-material rewards, and is more integral to our identity than a ‘regular’ job would be, makes us ideal employees when the goal of management is to extract our labor’s maximum value at minimum cost.” I'm thinking of you, camhead, Doc... and myself, of course. If 41% of professors are way underpaid adjuncts, why is college so fucking expensive now? You've got to support the college athletics program! Football, man! And basketball... At many schools that spend significantly on football and basketball, those programs generate enough money to easily support themselves, including the exorbitant head coaches salaries, and often cover a lot of the additional athletic costs. I'd like to see sources for this. Sure, some may be self-sustaining, but there is the penis-measuring contest of all the other schools that are mandated by social pressure to have a football(or ski, or water polo, or midget curling) team at every university certainly means that a lot of the less successful schools are losing a fair amount of money into the athletic black hole. I mostly blame the decrease in state support and funding for public institutions. Call me a commie, but I think states (and their taxpayers) have a duty to support their students, as this support will pay dividends in the future. Unless you live in a shitty state with an aging population and youth flight(connecticut). What's the cost to go to school in the States now? For classes and books I remember paying maybe $3.5k a semester (taking 6 classes instead of the regular 5 classes per semester), so $7k a year total (two semesters). Talking to a guy at running this morning his daughter is going to school for ~$15k a year, but that includes living in a dorm. Which didn't seem too bad. Oh, and in Canada there's no such thing as a state University. Cost would have been similar going to another University. I think as a resident in Quebec you get a big break though (the province of Quebec has the most social programs in Canada, but they also have the highest taxes. They seem happy with this). I don't know what the average is, but I have heard $35k-50K. At Case, undergrad tuition is $41,420.00 for full-time. But it is misleading, somewhat, bc hardly anybody actually pays that, because of various grants, etc. Still, $41K? That is STAGGERING! (source: http://www.case.edu/...r/bursar/tuition.htm) $41k, holey smokes! 16k a year for MT residents, 30k a year for out of state students at MSU. My first year of grad School was 11k. My third year was 24k. Fortunately, I got all my higher ed for free, which was lucky since it hasn't really gotten me jack shit. I always appreciated the double irony, as an adjunct professor, of teaching 21 year olds with five figures of debt about how terrible and outdated colonial indentured servitude was.
The economy, then and now, cannot function without massive amounts of debt.
Fortunately, I got all my indentured servitude out of the way while marching in goosestep.
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snoopy138
Jan 21, 2014, 7:02 PM
Post #101967 of 105309
(4099 views)
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Registered: Jul 7, 2004
Posts: 28992
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dr_feelgood wrote: snoopy138 wrote: lena_chita wrote: caughtinside wrote: lena_chita wrote: Completely out of character for BET< but I thought this was a good read: http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2014/01/do_what_you_love_love_what_you_do_an_omnipresent_mantra_that_s_bad_for_work.2.html In reply to: Nowhere has the DWYL mantra been more devastating to its adherents than in academia. The average Ph.D. student of the mid-2000s forwent the easy money of finance and law (now slightly less easy) to live on a meager stipend in order to pursue his passion for Norse mythology or the history of Afro-Cuban music. The reward for answering this higher calling is an academic employment marketplace in which about 41 percent of American faculty are adjunct professors—contract instructors who usually receive low pay, no benefits, no office, no job security, and no long-term stake in the schools where they work. There are many factors that keep Ph.D.s providing such high-skilled labor for such low wages, including path dependency and the sunk costs of earning a Ph.D., but one of the strongest is how pervasively the DWYL doctrine is embedded in academia. Few other professions fuse the personal identity of their workers so intimately with the work output. Because academic research should be done out of pure love, the actual conditions of and compensation for this labor become afterthoughts, if they are considered at all. In “Academic Labor, the Aesthetics of Management, and the Promise of Autonomous Work,” Sarah Brouillette writes of academic faculty, “[O]ur faith that our work offers non-material rewards, and is more integral to our identity than a ‘regular’ job would be, makes us ideal employees when the goal of management is to extract our labor’s maximum value at minimum cost.” I'm thinking of you, camhead, Doc... and myself, of course. If 41% of professors are way underpaid adjuncts, why is college so fucking expensive now? You've got to support the college athletics program! Football, man! And basketball... At many schools that spend significantly on football and basketball, those programs generate enough money to easily support themselves, including the exorbitant head coaches salaries, and often cover a lot of the additional athletic costs. I'd like to see sources for this. Sure, some may be self-sustaining, but there is the penis-measuring contest of all the other schools that are mandated by social pressure to have a football(or ski, or water polo, or midget curling) team at every university certainly means that a lot of the less successful schools are losing a fair amount of money into the athletic black hole. I mostly blame the decrease in state support and funding for public institutions. Call me a commie, but I think states (and their taxpayers) have a duty to support their students, as this support will pay dividends in the future. Unless you live in a shitty state with an aging population and youth flight(connecticut).
According to this, 57% of football programs and the same percentage of basketball programs at FBS schools (Division I-A) are profitable.
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snoopy138
Jan 21, 2014, 7:03 PM
Post #101968 of 105309
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Registered: Jul 7, 2004
Posts: 28992
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caughtinside wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: granite_grrl wrote: lena_chita wrote: granite_grrl wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: snoopy138 wrote: lena_chita wrote: caughtinside wrote: lena_chita wrote: Completely out of character for BET< but I thought this was a good read: http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2014/01/do_what_you_love_love_what_you_do_an_omnipresent_mantra_that_s_bad_for_work.2.html In reply to: Nowhere has the DWYL mantra been more devastating to its adherents than in academia. The average Ph.D. student of the mid-2000s forwent the easy money of finance and law (now slightly less easy) to live on a meager stipend in order to pursue his passion for Norse mythology or the history of Afro-Cuban music. The reward for answering this higher calling is an academic employment marketplace in which about 41 percent of American faculty are adjunct professors—contract instructors who usually receive low pay, no benefits, no office, no job security, and no long-term stake in the schools where they work. There are many factors that keep Ph.D.s providing such high-skilled labor for such low wages, including path dependency and the sunk costs of earning a Ph.D., but one of the strongest is how pervasively the DWYL doctrine is embedded in academia. Few other professions fuse the personal identity of their workers so intimately with the work output. Because academic research should be done out of pure love, the actual conditions of and compensation for this labor become afterthoughts, if they are considered at all. In “Academic Labor, the Aesthetics of Management, and the Promise of Autonomous Work,” Sarah Brouillette writes of academic faculty, “[O]ur faith that our work offers non-material rewards, and is more integral to our identity than a ‘regular’ job would be, makes us ideal employees when the goal of management is to extract our labor’s maximum value at minimum cost.” I'm thinking of you, camhead, Doc... and myself, of course. If 41% of professors are way underpaid adjuncts, why is college so fucking expensive now? You've got to support the college athletics program! Football, man! And basketball... At many schools that spend significantly on football and basketball, those programs generate enough money to easily support themselves, including the exorbitant head coaches salaries, and often cover a lot of the additional athletic costs. I'd like to see sources for this. Sure, some may be self-sustaining, but there is the penis-measuring contest of all the other schools that are mandated by social pressure to have a football(or ski, or water polo, or midget curling) team at every university certainly means that a lot of the less successful schools are losing a fair amount of money into the athletic black hole. I mostly blame the decrease in state support and funding for public institutions. Call me a commie, but I think states (and their taxpayers) have a duty to support their students, as this support will pay dividends in the future. Unless you live in a shitty state with an aging population and youth flight(connecticut). What's the cost to go to school in the States now? For classes and books I remember paying maybe $3.5k a semester (taking 6 classes instead of the regular 5 classes per semester), so $7k a year total (two semesters). Talking to a guy at running this morning his daughter is going to school for ~$15k a year, but that includes living in a dorm. Which didn't seem too bad. Oh, and in Canada there's no such thing as a state University. Cost would have been similar going to another University. I think as a resident in Quebec you get a big break though (the province of Quebec has the most social programs in Canada, but they also have the highest taxes. They seem happy with this). I don't know what the average is, but I have heard $35k-50K. At Case, undergrad tuition is $41,420.00 for full-time. But it is misleading, somewhat, bc hardly anybody actually pays that, because of various grants, etc. Still, $41K? That is STAGGERING! (source: http://www.case.edu/...r/bursar/tuition.htm) $41k, holey smokes! 16k a year for MT residents, 30k a year for out of state students at MSU. My first year of grad School was 11k. My third year was 24k.
wasn't there a lawsuit about that?
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snoopy138
Jan 21, 2014, 7:06 PM
Post #101969 of 105309
(4095 views)
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Registered: Jul 7, 2004
Posts: 28992
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snoopy138 wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: snoopy138 wrote: lena_chita wrote: caughtinside wrote: lena_chita wrote: Completely out of character for BET< but I thought this was a good read: http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2014/01/do_what_you_love_love_what_you_do_an_omnipresent_mantra_that_s_bad_for_work.2.html In reply to: Nowhere has the DWYL mantra been more devastating to its adherents than in academia. The average Ph.D. student of the mid-2000s forwent the easy money of finance and law (now slightly less easy) to live on a meager stipend in order to pursue his passion for Norse mythology or the history of Afro-Cuban music. The reward for answering this higher calling is an academic employment marketplace in which about 41 percent of American faculty are adjunct professors—contract instructors who usually receive low pay, no benefits, no office, no job security, and no long-term stake in the schools where they work. There are many factors that keep Ph.D.s providing such high-skilled labor for such low wages, including path dependency and the sunk costs of earning a Ph.D., but one of the strongest is how pervasively the DWYL doctrine is embedded in academia. Few other professions fuse the personal identity of their workers so intimately with the work output. Because academic research should be done out of pure love, the actual conditions of and compensation for this labor become afterthoughts, if they are considered at all. In “Academic Labor, the Aesthetics of Management, and the Promise of Autonomous Work,” Sarah Brouillette writes of academic faculty, “[O]ur faith that our work offers non-material rewards, and is more integral to our identity than a ‘regular’ job would be, makes us ideal employees when the goal of management is to extract our labor’s maximum value at minimum cost.” I'm thinking of you, camhead, Doc... and myself, of course. If 41% of professors are way underpaid adjuncts, why is college so fucking expensive now? You've got to support the college athletics program! Football, man! And basketball... At many schools that spend significantly on football and basketball, those programs generate enough money to easily support themselves, including the exorbitant head coaches salaries, and often cover a lot of the additional athletic costs. I'd like to see sources for this. Sure, some may be self-sustaining, but there is the penis-measuring contest of all the other schools that are mandated by social pressure to have a football(or ski, or water polo, or midget curling) team at every university certainly means that a lot of the less successful schools are losing a fair amount of money into the athletic black hole. I mostly blame the decrease in state support and funding for public institutions. Call me a commie, but I think states (and their taxpayers) have a duty to support their students, as this support will pay dividends in the future. Unless you live in a shitty state with an aging population and youth flight(connecticut). According to this, 57% of football programs and the same percentage of basketball programs at FBS schools (Division I-A) are profitable.
link: http://sportsologist.com/...etics-by-the-number/
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dr_feelgood
Jan 21, 2014, 8:12 PM
Post #101970 of 105309
(4079 views)
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Registered: Apr 6, 2004
Posts: 26060
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snoopy138 wrote: snoopy138 wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: snoopy138 wrote: lena_chita wrote: caughtinside wrote: lena_chita wrote: Completely out of character for BET< but I thought this was a good read: http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2014/01/do_what_you_love_love_what_you_do_an_omnipresent_mantra_that_s_bad_for_work.2.html In reply to: Nowhere has the DWYL mantra been more devastating to its adherents than in academia. The average Ph.D. student of the mid-2000s forwent the easy money of finance and law (now slightly less easy) to live on a meager stipend in order to pursue his passion for Norse mythology or the history of Afro-Cuban music. The reward for answering this higher calling is an academic employment marketplace in which about 41 percent of American faculty are adjunct professors—contract instructors who usually receive low pay, no benefits, no office, no job security, and no long-term stake in the schools where they work. There are many factors that keep Ph.D.s providing such high-skilled labor for such low wages, including path dependency and the sunk costs of earning a Ph.D., but one of the strongest is how pervasively the DWYL doctrine is embedded in academia. Few other professions fuse the personal identity of their workers so intimately with the work output. Because academic research should be done out of pure love, the actual conditions of and compensation for this labor become afterthoughts, if they are considered at all. In “Academic Labor, the Aesthetics of Management, and the Promise of Autonomous Work,” Sarah Brouillette writes of academic faculty, “[O]ur faith that our work offers non-material rewards, and is more integral to our identity than a ‘regular’ job would be, makes us ideal employees when the goal of management is to extract our labor’s maximum value at minimum cost.” I'm thinking of you, camhead, Doc... and myself, of course. If 41% of professors are way underpaid adjuncts, why is college so fucking expensive now? You've got to support the college athletics program! Football, man! And basketball... At many schools that spend significantly on football and basketball, those programs generate enough money to easily support themselves, including the exorbitant head coaches salaries, and often cover a lot of the additional athletic costs. I'd like to see sources for this. Sure, some may be self-sustaining, but there is the penis-measuring contest of all the other schools that are mandated by social pressure to have a football(or ski, or water polo, or midget curling) team at every university certainly means that a lot of the less successful schools are losing a fair amount of money into the athletic black hole. I mostly blame the decrease in state support and funding for public institutions. Call me a commie, but I think states (and their taxpayers) have a duty to support their students, as this support will pay dividends in the future. Unless you live in a shitty state with an aging population and youth flight(connecticut). According to this, 57% of football programs and the same percentage of basketball programs at FBS schools (Division I-A) are profitable. link: http://sportsologist.com/...etics-by-the-number/
Yeah, that means 43% are unprofitable. And what about lower division schools that need a football team? I bet those represent a net loss.
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lena_chita
Moderator
Jan 21, 2014, 8:24 PM
Post #101971 of 105309
(4077 views)
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Registered: Jun 27, 2006
Posts: 6087
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snoopy138 wrote: snoopy138 wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: snoopy138 wrote: lena_chita wrote: caughtinside wrote: lena_chita wrote: Completely out of character for BET< but I thought this was a good read: http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2014/01/do_what_you_love_love_what_you_do_an_omnipresent_mantra_that_s_bad_for_work.2.html In reply to: Nowhere has the DWYL mantra been more devastating to its adherents than in academia. The average Ph.D. student of the mid-2000s forwent the easy money of finance and law (now slightly less easy) to live on a meager stipend in order to pursue his passion for Norse mythology or the history of Afro-Cuban music. The reward for answering this higher calling is an academic employment marketplace in which about 41 percent of American faculty are adjunct professors—contract instructors who usually receive low pay, no benefits, no office, no job security, and no long-term stake in the schools where they work. There are many factors that keep Ph.D.s providing such high-skilled labor for such low wages, including path dependency and the sunk costs of earning a Ph.D., but one of the strongest is how pervasively the DWYL doctrine is embedded in academia. Few other professions fuse the personal identity of their workers so intimately with the work output. Because academic research should be done out of pure love, the actual conditions of and compensation for this labor become afterthoughts, if they are considered at all. In “Academic Labor, the Aesthetics of Management, and the Promise of Autonomous Work,” Sarah Brouillette writes of academic faculty, “[O]ur faith that our work offers non-material rewards, and is more integral to our identity than a ‘regular’ job would be, makes us ideal employees when the goal of management is to extract our labor’s maximum value at minimum cost.” I'm thinking of you, camhead, Doc... and myself, of course. If 41% of professors are way underpaid adjuncts, why is college so fucking expensive now? You've got to support the college athletics program! Football, man! And basketball... At many schools that spend significantly on football and basketball, those programs generate enough money to easily support themselves, including the exorbitant head coaches salaries, and often cover a lot of the additional athletic costs. I'd like to see sources for this. Sure, some may be self-sustaining, but there is the penis-measuring contest of all the other schools that are mandated by social pressure to have a football(or ski, or water polo, or midget curling) team at every university certainly means that a lot of the less successful schools are losing a fair amount of money into the athletic black hole. I mostly blame the decrease in state support and funding for public institutions. Call me a commie, but I think states (and their taxpayers) have a duty to support their students, as this support will pay dividends in the future. Unless you live in a shitty state with an aging population and youth flight(connecticut). According to this, 57% of football programs and the same percentage of basketball programs at FBS schools (Division I-A) are profitable. link: http://sportsologist.com/...etics-by-the-number/
You have an interesting way of reading. Are you a lawyer, or something? From the same link that you posted:
In reply to: 12% of college athletic programs are profitable.
AND
In reply to: Average assistance that each university gave to the athletic department was $10.2 million.
Seems like looking at the entire spread, instead of cherry-picking Division 1_a (which are going to be the best, and STILL have 43% of colleges losing money) is more appropriate, no?
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caughtinside
Jan 21, 2014, 11:20 PM
Post #101972 of 105309
(4060 views)
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Registered: Jan 8, 2003
Posts: 30603
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snoopy138 wrote: caughtinside wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: granite_grrl wrote: lena_chita wrote: granite_grrl wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: snoopy138 wrote: lena_chita wrote: caughtinside wrote: lena_chita wrote: Completely out of character for BET< but I thought this was a good read: http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2014/01/do_what_you_love_love_what_you_do_an_omnipresent_mantra_that_s_bad_for_work.2.html In reply to: Nowhere has the DWYL mantra been more devastating to its adherents than in academia. The average Ph.D. student of the mid-2000s forwent the easy money of finance and law (now slightly less easy) to live on a meager stipend in order to pursue his passion for Norse mythology or the history of Afro-Cuban music. The reward for answering this higher calling is an academic employment marketplace in which about 41 percent of American faculty are adjunct professors—contract instructors who usually receive low pay, no benefits, no office, no job security, and no long-term stake in the schools where they work. There are many factors that keep Ph.D.s providing such high-skilled labor for such low wages, including path dependency and the sunk costs of earning a Ph.D., but one of the strongest is how pervasively the DWYL doctrine is embedded in academia. Few other professions fuse the personal identity of their workers so intimately with the work output. Because academic research should be done out of pure love, the actual conditions of and compensation for this labor become afterthoughts, if they are considered at all. In “Academic Labor, the Aesthetics of Management, and the Promise of Autonomous Work,” Sarah Brouillette writes of academic faculty, “[O]ur faith that our work offers non-material rewards, and is more integral to our identity than a ‘regular’ job would be, makes us ideal employees when the goal of management is to extract our labor’s maximum value at minimum cost.” I'm thinking of you, camhead, Doc... and myself, of course. If 41% of professors are way underpaid adjuncts, why is college so fucking expensive now? You've got to support the college athletics program! Football, man! And basketball... At many schools that spend significantly on football and basketball, those programs generate enough money to easily support themselves, including the exorbitant head coaches salaries, and often cover a lot of the additional athletic costs. I'd like to see sources for this. Sure, some may be self-sustaining, but there is the penis-measuring contest of all the other schools that are mandated by social pressure to have a football(or ski, or water polo, or midget curling) team at every university certainly means that a lot of the less successful schools are losing a fair amount of money into the athletic black hole. I mostly blame the decrease in state support and funding for public institutions. Call me a commie, but I think states (and their taxpayers) have a duty to support their students, as this support will pay dividends in the future. Unless you live in a shitty state with an aging population and youth flight(connecticut). What's the cost to go to school in the States now? For classes and books I remember paying maybe $3.5k a semester (taking 6 classes instead of the regular 5 classes per semester), so $7k a year total (two semesters). Talking to a guy at running this morning his daughter is going to school for ~$15k a year, but that includes living in a dorm. Which didn't seem too bad. Oh, and in Canada there's no such thing as a state University. Cost would have been similar going to another University. I think as a resident in Quebec you get a big break though (the province of Quebec has the most social programs in Canada, but they also have the highest taxes. They seem happy with this). I don't know what the average is, but I have heard $35k-50K. At Case, undergrad tuition is $41,420.00 for full-time. But it is misleading, somewhat, bc hardly anybody actually pays that, because of various grants, etc. Still, $41K? That is STAGGERING! (source: http://www.case.edu/...r/bursar/tuition.htm) $41k, holey smokes! 16k a year for MT residents, 30k a year for out of state students at MSU. My first year of grad School was 11k. My third year was 24k. wasn't there a lawsuit about that?
That is correct.
Years later, in 2008 I received a check since I was part of that class action. It was like $4200. Which was great, because it showed up the very week I bought the MoleStar, for $4200. ha ha! free wheels!
This all comes full circle today, when I sold the MoleStar 
I did sell it to Cornelius though, so I retain visitation rights.
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caughtinside
Jan 21, 2014, 11:24 PM
Post #101973 of 105309
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caughtinside wrote: snoopy138 wrote: caughtinside wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: granite_grrl wrote: lena_chita wrote: granite_grrl wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: snoopy138 wrote: lena_chita wrote: caughtinside wrote: lena_chita wrote: Completely out of character for BET< but I thought this was a good read: http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2014/01/do_what_you_love_love_what_you_do_an_omnipresent_mantra_that_s_bad_for_work.2.html In reply to: Nowhere has the DWYL mantra been more devastating to its adherents than in academia. The average Ph.D. student of the mid-2000s forwent the easy money of finance and law (now slightly less easy) to live on a meager stipend in order to pursue his passion for Norse mythology or the history of Afro-Cuban music. The reward for answering this higher calling is an academic employment marketplace in which about 41 percent of American faculty are adjunct professors—contract instructors who usually receive low pay, no benefits, no office, no job security, and no long-term stake in the schools where they work. There are many factors that keep Ph.D.s providing such high-skilled labor for such low wages, including path dependency and the sunk costs of earning a Ph.D., but one of the strongest is how pervasively the DWYL doctrine is embedded in academia. Few other professions fuse the personal identity of their workers so intimately with the work output. Because academic research should be done out of pure love, the actual conditions of and compensation for this labor become afterthoughts, if they are considered at all. In “Academic Labor, the Aesthetics of Management, and the Promise of Autonomous Work,” Sarah Brouillette writes of academic faculty, “[O]ur faith that our work offers non-material rewards, and is more integral to our identity than a ‘regular’ job would be, makes us ideal employees when the goal of management is to extract our labor’s maximum value at minimum cost.” I'm thinking of you, camhead, Doc... and myself, of course. If 41% of professors are way underpaid adjuncts, why is college so fucking expensive now? You've got to support the college athletics program! Football, man! And basketball... At many schools that spend significantly on football and basketball, those programs generate enough money to easily support themselves, including the exorbitant head coaches salaries, and often cover a lot of the additional athletic costs. I'd like to see sources for this. Sure, some may be self-sustaining, but there is the penis-measuring contest of all the other schools that are mandated by social pressure to have a football(or ski, or water polo, or midget curling) team at every university certainly means that a lot of the less successful schools are losing a fair amount of money into the athletic black hole. I mostly blame the decrease in state support and funding for public institutions. Call me a commie, but I think states (and their taxpayers) have a duty to support their students, as this support will pay dividends in the future. Unless you live in a shitty state with an aging population and youth flight(connecticut). What's the cost to go to school in the States now? For classes and books I remember paying maybe $3.5k a semester (taking 6 classes instead of the regular 5 classes per semester), so $7k a year total (two semesters). Talking to a guy at running this morning his daughter is going to school for ~$15k a year, but that includes living in a dorm. Which didn't seem too bad. Oh, and in Canada there's no such thing as a state University. Cost would have been similar going to another University. I think as a resident in Quebec you get a big break though (the province of Quebec has the most social programs in Canada, but they also have the highest taxes. They seem happy with this). I don't know what the average is, but I have heard $35k-50K. At Case, undergrad tuition is $41,420.00 for full-time. But it is misleading, somewhat, bc hardly anybody actually pays that, because of various grants, etc. Still, $41K? That is STAGGERING! (source: http://www.case.edu/...r/bursar/tuition.htm) $41k, holey smokes! 16k a year for MT residents, 30k a year for out of state students at MSU. My first year of grad School was 11k. My third year was 24k. wasn't there a lawsuit about that? That is correct. Years later, in 2008 I received a check since I was part of that class action. It was like $4200. Which was great, because it showed up the very week I bought the MoleStar, for $4200. ha ha! free wheels! This all comes full circle today, when I sold the MoleStar I did sell it to Cornelius though, so I retain visitation rights.
I should also mention that today I think the cost for one year is over 40k. So it's basically quadrupled in 15 years.
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snoopy138
Jan 22, 2014, 1:52 AM
Post #101974 of 105309
(4045 views)
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Registered: Jul 7, 2004
Posts: 28992
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lena_chita wrote: snoopy138 wrote: snoopy138 wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: snoopy138 wrote: lena_chita wrote: caughtinside wrote: lena_chita wrote: Completely out of character for BET< but I thought this was a good read: http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2014/01/do_what_you_love_love_what_you_do_an_omnipresent_mantra_that_s_bad_for_work.2.html In reply to: Nowhere has the DWYL mantra been more devastating to its adherents than in academia. The average Ph.D. student of the mid-2000s forwent the easy money of finance and law (now slightly less easy) to live on a meager stipend in order to pursue his passion for Norse mythology or the history of Afro-Cuban music. The reward for answering this higher calling is an academic employment marketplace in which about 41 percent of American faculty are adjunct professors—contract instructors who usually receive low pay, no benefits, no office, no job security, and no long-term stake in the schools where they work. There are many factors that keep Ph.D.s providing such high-skilled labor for such low wages, including path dependency and the sunk costs of earning a Ph.D., but one of the strongest is how pervasively the DWYL doctrine is embedded in academia. Few other professions fuse the personal identity of their workers so intimately with the work output. Because academic research should be done out of pure love, the actual conditions of and compensation for this labor become afterthoughts, if they are considered at all. In “Academic Labor, the Aesthetics of Management, and the Promise of Autonomous Work,” Sarah Brouillette writes of academic faculty, “[O]ur faith that our work offers non-material rewards, and is more integral to our identity than a ‘regular’ job would be, makes us ideal employees when the goal of management is to extract our labor’s maximum value at minimum cost.” I'm thinking of you, camhead, Doc... and myself, of course. If 41% of professors are way underpaid adjuncts, why is college so fucking expensive now? You've got to support the college athletics program! Football, man! And basketball... At many schools that spend significantly on football and basketball, those programs generate enough money to easily support themselves, including the exorbitant head coaches salaries, and often cover a lot of the additional athletic costs. I'd like to see sources for this. Sure, some may be self-sustaining, but there is the penis-measuring contest of all the other schools that are mandated by social pressure to have a football(or ski, or water polo, or midget curling) team at every university certainly means that a lot of the less successful schools are losing a fair amount of money into the athletic black hole. I mostly blame the decrease in state support and funding for public institutions. Call me a commie, but I think states (and their taxpayers) have a duty to support their students, as this support will pay dividends in the future. Unless you live in a shitty state with an aging population and youth flight(connecticut). According to this, 57% of football programs and the same percentage of basketball programs at FBS schools (Division I-A) are profitable. link: http://sportsologist.com/...etics-by-the-number/You have an interesting way of reading. Are you a lawyer, or something? From the same link that you posted: In reply to: 12% of college athletic programs are profitable. AND In reply to: Average assistance that each university gave to the athletic department was $10.2 million. Seems like looking at the entire spread, instead of cherry-picking Division 1_a (which are going to be the best, and STILL have 43% of colleges losing money) is more appropriate, no?
The article was only talking about Division I-A (now referred to as FBS).
And I was only talking about the football and basketball programs, 57% of which it said are profitable. The 12% is where the athletic department is profitable, meaning (basically) that football and basketball cover the rest of the department, since none of the other sports make shit.
The article also mentions that while alumni/booster donations are counted towards revenue, that is most likely just donations designated specifically for the athletic department. It's unclear whether the amount of those donations that would otherwise go to the school (vs. not being made at all if there was no athletic program) is more than the additional donations given to the school for its general funds based on alumni generally being happy with the sports programs.
They also list 25% of the expenses as scholarships/grants, which obviously go up with tuition, and pay for the education of the athletes. Obviously, a certain number of these athletes are deriving minimal benefit from the education, but there's plenty of them (especially in the lesser sports) that are getting an education.
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snoopy138
Jan 22, 2014, 1:53 AM
Post #101975 of 105309
(4043 views)
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Registered: Jul 7, 2004
Posts: 28992
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caughtinside wrote: snoopy138 wrote: caughtinside wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: granite_grrl wrote: lena_chita wrote: granite_grrl wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: snoopy138 wrote: lena_chita wrote: caughtinside wrote: lena_chita wrote: Completely out of character for BET< but I thought this was a good read: http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2014/01/do_what_you_love_love_what_you_do_an_omnipresent_mantra_that_s_bad_for_work.2.html In reply to: Nowhere has the DWYL mantra been more devastating to its adherents than in academia. The average Ph.D. student of the mid-2000s forwent the easy money of finance and law (now slightly less easy) to live on a meager stipend in order to pursue his passion for Norse mythology or the history of Afro-Cuban music. The reward for answering this higher calling is an academic employment marketplace in which about 41 percent of American faculty are adjunct professors—contract instructors who usually receive low pay, no benefits, no office, no job security, and no long-term stake in the schools where they work. There are many factors that keep Ph.D.s providing such high-skilled labor for such low wages, including path dependency and the sunk costs of earning a Ph.D., but one of the strongest is how pervasively the DWYL doctrine is embedded in academia. Few other professions fuse the personal identity of their workers so intimately with the work output. Because academic research should be done out of pure love, the actual conditions of and compensation for this labor become afterthoughts, if they are considered at all. In “Academic Labor, the Aesthetics of Management, and the Promise of Autonomous Work,” Sarah Brouillette writes of academic faculty, “[O]ur faith that our work offers non-material rewards, and is more integral to our identity than a ‘regular’ job would be, makes us ideal employees when the goal of management is to extract our labor’s maximum value at minimum cost.” I'm thinking of you, camhead, Doc... and myself, of course. If 41% of professors are way underpaid adjuncts, why is college so fucking expensive now? You've got to support the college athletics program! Football, man! And basketball... At many schools that spend significantly on football and basketball, those programs generate enough money to easily support themselves, including the exorbitant head coaches salaries, and often cover a lot of the additional athletic costs. I'd like to see sources for this. Sure, some may be self-sustaining, but there is the penis-measuring contest of all the other schools that are mandated by social pressure to have a football(or ski, or water polo, or midget curling) team at every university certainly means that a lot of the less successful schools are losing a fair amount of money into the athletic black hole. I mostly blame the decrease in state support and funding for public institutions. Call me a commie, but I think states (and their taxpayers) have a duty to support their students, as this support will pay dividends in the future. Unless you live in a shitty state with an aging population and youth flight(connecticut). What's the cost to go to school in the States now? For classes and books I remember paying maybe $3.5k a semester (taking 6 classes instead of the regular 5 classes per semester), so $7k a year total (two semesters). Talking to a guy at running this morning his daughter is going to school for ~$15k a year, but that includes living in a dorm. Which didn't seem too bad. Oh, and in Canada there's no such thing as a state University. Cost would have been similar going to another University. I think as a resident in Quebec you get a big break though (the province of Quebec has the most social programs in Canada, but they also have the highest taxes. They seem happy with this). I don't know what the average is, but I have heard $35k-50K. At Case, undergrad tuition is $41,420.00 for full-time. But it is misleading, somewhat, bc hardly anybody actually pays that, because of various grants, etc. Still, $41K? That is STAGGERING! (source: http://www.case.edu/...r/bursar/tuition.htm) $41k, holey smokes! 16k a year for MT residents, 30k a year for out of state students at MSU. My first year of grad School was 11k. My third year was 24k. wasn't there a lawsuit about that? That is correct. Years later, in 2008 I received a check since I was part of that class action. It was like $4200. Which was great, because it showed up the very week I bought the MoleStar, for $4200. ha ha! free wheels! This all comes full circle today, when I sold the MoleStar I did sell it to Cornelius though, so I retain visitation rights.
Yeah, I was after the tuition had already gone up, we got no lawsuit $.
Sad news on teh molestar.
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