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Fred20
Feb 12, 2014, 9:50 PM
Post #51 of 59
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This is exactly what my gym has (about 6 autos). The routes mostly all have top ropes (with #'s) and if there is an auto belay there is no TR. They switch the location of the TR and Auto's as well.
If the top isn't cliped it should be laying flat on the ground to let you know there is someone climbing above...if no one is climbing it is clipped to the top of the triangle and covers the start of the route...
if you don't clip it properly obviously the biner gets taken to the top and staff has to recover it.
to me this has to be the safest way to climb since you don't even tie a knot and just clip in...of course you have to remember to do so.
I guess that's why pieces of equipment and signs are posted on walls stating "CLIMBING IS DANGEROUS"
(This post was edited by Fred20 on Feb 12, 2014, 9:52 PM)
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majid_sabet
Feb 13, 2014, 9:18 PM
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I climbed in our gym without clipping the auto biner to my harness at least a few time not realizing I was climbing without it so the issue is not the biner shooting to roof and leaving you behind. its rather climbing with a sense of security thinking the biner is clipped in where actually it is not. This is where pilot thinks he has the landing gear down and lands on dirt without double checking the check list. To prevent climbing accidents, its best to double check and actually and physically look and touch and confirm things are in the right place.
Read the I&A and you see tons of fatality reports from climbers not physically double checking their list.I can think of anchor failure and falling from end of the line during rappel as the most common ones you could read regularly.
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Fred20
Feb 13, 2014, 9:30 PM
Post #53 of 59
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it's always possible to start free soloing if you "zone out"...since the autobelay isnt a person you definitely have to be vigilant!
Still, I believe this has to be rare because when you attach the autobelay, it immediately takes slack on your harness which is about the only annoying thing about it IMO...that and you can't have a "take" halfway up a difficult route
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shockabuku
Feb 14, 2014, 4:47 AM
Post #54 of 59
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majid_sabet wrote: I climbed in our gym without clipping the auto biner to my harness at least a few time not realizing I was climbing without it so the issue is not the biner shooting to roof and leaving you behind. its rather climbing with a sense of security thinking the biner is clipped in where actually it is not. This is where pilot thinks he has the landing gear down and lands on dirt without double checking the check list. To prevent climbing accidents, its best to double check and actually and physically look and touch and confirm things are in the right place. Read the I&A and you see tons of fatality reports from climbers not physically double checking their list.I can think of anchor failure and falling from end of the line during rappel as the most common ones you could read regularly.
I've done it prior to these gates being installed. The first time I didn't realize it till I was almost at the top of the climb, the second time about half way up. Now that these fabric "gates" have been installed it's almost impossible to forget to clip in.
The old autobelay anchors were set away from the wall; these gates are anchored at the base of the wall and basically the fabric blocks the footholds unless you unclip the autobelay and lower the fabric to the floor. They are a significant improvement in regards to preventing someone from climbing without clipping in first. Amazing that's it's such a simple thing.
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majid_sabet
Feb 14, 2014, 7:37 AM
Post #55 of 59
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I saw them in my gym yesterday and I wonder what the triangle fabric was for ,now makes sense.
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markc
Feb 14, 2014, 3:39 PM
Post #56 of 59
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Earlier in the thread JAB mentioned a gate that stuck out from the wall in gyms he's familiar with. These fabric gates accomplish the same thing but with much greater ease of installation and I'd imagine a really low cost. That's a great solution.
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ericthebat
Feb 15, 2014, 2:18 AM
Post #57 of 59
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I have not talked to the BRC folks re: these fabric barriers; they appear to be made by/for Trublue. The BRC would have issues because the walls are not segregated for different uses, i.e. you may boulder, lead, and top-rope on the same terrain the autobelays occupy, so the fabric would interfere with every other use. Several walls also overhang slightly, so attaching to the floor would be more problematic.
It is a tricky issue trying to find a solution that isn't easily bypassed or avoided by someone, or that interferes with other users.
I don't know whether Mark's family even asked for an autopsy, or felt that nothing meaningful would be gained from it. Theories about some medical condition like heart attack fail to acknowledge the simple fact he was not clipped into the device.
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patto
Feb 15, 2014, 9:14 PM
Post #58 of 59
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Registered: Nov 15, 2005
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ericthebat wrote: I have not talked to the BRC folks re: these fabric barriers; they appear to be made by/for Trublue. The BRC would have issues because the walls are not segregated for different uses, i.e. you may boulder, lead, and top-rope on the same terrain the autobelays occupy, so the fabric would interfere with every other use. Several walls also overhang slightly, so attaching to the floor would be more problematic. It is a tricky issue trying to find a solution that isn't easily bypassed or avoided by someone, or that interferes with other users.
The number of instances of autobelay accidents is frequent enough that these fabric barriers should used in every instance.
If they interfere with other uses then tough. Auto belay routes should be exclusively for auto belays.
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JAB
Feb 17, 2014, 2:01 PM
Post #59 of 59
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Registered: Apr 26, 2007
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patto wrote: The number of instances of autobelay accidents is frequent enough that these fabric barriers should used in every instance. If they interfere with other uses then tough. Auto belay routes should be exclusively for auto belays.
Totally agree.
This fabric gate seems to work exactly like the gates I described already several months ago. I still think the metal gates are better, since they also extend outwards (i.e. the triangle is horizontal, not vertical like the fabric model), so the cable is actually extending about 2 feet out from the wall, which means it would be behind your back if you tried to climb without clipping in, giving one more visual clue that something is wrong.
Great to see that the manufacturers finally seem to have reacted! It's a shame it took fatalities, but when reading many of the comments it seems many climbers still prefer to take the calculated risk of plummeting to death due to a second's oversight, than having this simple, cheap and easy solution which so far seems to have prevented 100% of these types of accidents.
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