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ebmudder


Mar 8, 2014, 8:44 AM
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Retiring Old Runners
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Hi All: Like most everyone else I've accumulated a frightening amount of gear over the years, but as an intermittent climber, much of it has seen very little use until recently, as I've tried to increase the amount of climbing I do from 5-10 days a year to 50.

I have several ropes that have been used on lead a handful of times, and never caught a significant fall, and look in very good condition...but they're all at or beyond 5 yrs old. I've been reading and re-reading threads and have come to the conclusion I really should retire them at this point...why take the risk?

I have "a ton" of old sewn double runners, some nylon and some tech materials, some as many as 12 yrs old, that still look to be in good condition...but these too I will retire. However I saw a couple of threads where people tested their old runners to find out what their breaking strength was...I'd be interested to find out what the strength of my really old runners are...how can I find this out?

Finally, I also have SLCDs that are probably 12 yrs old as well...should I assume the slings are marginal at best at this point? If so, are there places that replace SLCD slings, or do I need to send them back to the OEM for refurbishment?

I realize there will be a range of opinion on this, but I'm less concerned about economy as I spend more time on the sharp end of the rope!


marc801


Mar 8, 2014, 11:06 AM
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Re: [ebmudder] Retiring Old Runners [In reply to]
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ebmudder wrote:
If so, are there places that replace SLCD slings, or do I need to send them back to the OEM for refurbishment?
Yates will resling anyone's SLCDs; BD and Metolius only do their own.


ebmudder


Mar 8, 2014, 11:24 AM
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Re: [marc801] Retiring Old Runners [In reply to]
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Thanks Marc! Yates' pricing seems very decent! http://yatesgear.com/...g/slings/index.htm#9


csproul


Mar 9, 2014, 2:01 PM
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Wired Bliss will also re-sling cams. I just got about 10 of them back and they did a good job. Also did some trigger wires.


ebmudder


Mar 9, 2014, 2:15 PM
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Thanks csproul...seems like their prices are exactly the same as Yates, and they both offer single or double slings.

Just curious about doubled slings on cams...I'm already using doubled runners as quickdraws, so when I'm protecting on lead, I'm unclipping my cam from my gear loop and placing it, then unclipping the quickdraw and clipping it to the cam, and possibly extending it, and then clipping the rope.

It seems like I could save a considerable amount of gear and time by clipping into the extended sling on the cam and skipping the quickdraw (when I don't need to extend)...I presume that's the purpose of the doubled draw on the cam?

If so, then the minimal cost difference between a single or doubled sling on the cam ($1) seems like it would be well worth it?

Or am I misinterpreting the purpose of the doubled sling on the cam?


moose_droppings


Mar 9, 2014, 4:32 PM
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Five year old ropes, you know their history of few falls and safely kept, I'd climb on em.

Yes, doubled slings work just fine and do cut down some on runners you need to carry. Some routes may need longer runners and some may need more nuts or other protection which will require more runners too. Your call may depend on the route.


ebmudder


Mar 9, 2014, 4:41 PM
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Thanks moose_d ;)

I did further review of my cams and many of them are between 10 and 12 years old, so I will definitely be sending them in for sling-replacement. I just replaced a bunch of odd gear with new wiregates and doubled runners for quickdraws, and have eight of them, which when I last racked seemed like a lot of gear for the routes I'm going to be climbing in the 'Gunks. But even more useful to me would be able to just place the pro, extend and go (where possible), instead of adding the quickdraw into the process.

For the extra dollar, it seems completely worth re-slinging the cams with double slings, even if only a couple are placed without quickdraws on-route. Hopefully I'll be able to provide a report next month.

BUT...before closing out this thread, I'm still interested to know where I can send some of my 12-yr-old double-runners, to test their breaking strength?


csproul


Mar 9, 2014, 4:48 PM
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Im not sure that double slings from WB mean what you think they mean. I could be wrong, but I think that WB means a doubled up reenforced loop like you see on new C4's as opposed to the single loop you see on old Camalots. I;m not sure if they do the double length like you see from Yates. I'd ask before assuming that is what they mean.

You'll find lot of differing opinions on the utility of double length cam slings. I personally don't like them. I find that I often have to add a draw or sling anyway since places I climb are not often very straight enough that the extended cam sling is long enough, so adding the bulk of a doubled cam sling is not worth it to me. Other people love them.


ebmudder


Mar 9, 2014, 4:57 PM
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Thanks man...yes, I was looking at the Yates slings, and yes, of course it depends on how much you extend your slings.

I was spoiled climbing lots of straight up cracks in South Lake Tahoe and Yosemite for the past 3 yrs, and am going to be doing more climbing back east where the routes tend to wander more, so I will take this into consideration.

My main issue here is that it costs so little more to double the sling, which I'm replacing anyway, I might as well do it and have the flexibility to add or not add a quickdraw as necessary. Obviously every route will present it's own challenges <g>


caughtinside


Mar 10, 2014, 9:48 AM
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I'd climb on 5 year old ropes if they've been sitting in storage for the whole time.

I think half my cams still have original slings on them, so also about 10-12 years old. Still fine if they look ok. I've reslung the ones that looked worn.

Doubling the sling is more trouble than its worth. It can be nice when you're extending once in a while but it's more trouble to rerack at a belay.


ebmudder


Mar 10, 2014, 10:02 AM
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thanks caughtinside: it seems like the OEMs are all saying 10-12 yrs is outside the safety margin. I'm less concerned about the sling tearing than the stitching ripping out.

I would like to find somewhere to get my 12-yr-old double runners tested to failure...I'm interested to see if they'd fail at the stitching (do all sewn runners fail at the stitching?).

In my case, the old trope that "if you have any misgivings then replace/retire it" apply here. I would rather spend $60 on re-slinging them than worrying if they're going to hold me in a lead fall.

I agree with you about the ropes, or at least my ropes in this case, where I've been in control of them the entire time. What you've clearly missed in this discussion is that it's just me asking for a pass to buy more gear! Wink


Whitewalls


Mar 10, 2014, 1:46 PM
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http://eu.blackdiamondequipment.com/en/qc-lab-gear-doesnt-last-forever--slings--quickdraws.html

Try this link - it gives information from Black Diamond about testing old gear. Maybe if you contact them they could help you out?


caughtinside


Mar 10, 2014, 2:08 PM
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ebmudder wrote:
thanks caughtinside: it seems like the OEMs are all saying 10-12 yrs is outside the safety margin. I'm less concerned about the sling tearing than the stitching ripping out.

I would like to find somewhere to get my 12-yr-old double runners tested to failure...I'm interested to see if they'd fail at the stitching (do all sewn runners fail at the stitching?).

I've seen 30 year old webbing that was lost in a warehouse sealed in plastic pull tested to full strength.

I've also seen 10 year old used nylon slings test out to super high strength, maybe like 90%? I wish I had the numbers here but the test left me with the feeling that properly stored nylon doesn't degrade with age. If it's damaged, dried out or has seen lots of UV that's different.

Dyneema degrades quicker I think, and the skinnies are only good for a few seasons.

But I would support replacing gear you don't feel great about.


gunkiemike


Mar 10, 2014, 2:26 PM
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EB - you don't need our permission to buy new slings. If doing so would make you feel better, just go do it. Replacing gear that MIGHT be OK is a big part of what keeps the climbing industry afloat. From what you've told us, I'd climb on your ropes, and if I wasn't 100% comfortable doing so, I'd certainly be OK toproping on them for several more years.

As for the slings, I very much doubt there's any commercial establishment that'd do it. Too much liability exposure if their result(s) implied that they were safe and then subsequently one of them failed, even if it were cut by a flying beer bottle. Get my drift? Now a lot of folks will say - and I'm surprised it hasn't come up in this conversation already - "send them all to me for proper disposal". It's an old gag and stopped being funny after the first 1000X. But seriously, send 4-6 my way. I know a couple folks who can test one of them. Then I'll use the rest as rap slings (I go through quite a lot of these; one time, bodyweight use, generally in concert with several other layers of retired 20kN+ webbing). I'll share the test result with you and you can do as you like with the other slings, use 'em or toss 'em as you deem appropriate. PM me to arrange further if this sounds like something you'd be interested in.


ebmudder


Mar 10, 2014, 2:32 PM
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gunkiemike wrote:
...As for the slings, I very much doubt there's any commercial establishment that'd do it. Too much liability exposure if their result(s) implied that they were safe and then subsequently one of them failed, even if it were cut by a flying beer bottle. Get my drift?
Absolutely...I was asking if there's someplace that will destructively test them to failure to measure the breaking strength...one the sling pops they don't even have to return them <g>
gunkiemike wrote:
Now a lot of folks will say - and I'm surprised it hasn't come up in this conversation already - "send them all to me for proper disposal". It's an old gag and stopped being funny after the first 1000X. But seriously, send 4-6 my way. I know a couple folks who can test one of them. Then I'll use the rest as rap slings (I go through quite a lot of these; one time, bodyweight use, generally in concert with several other layers of retired 20kN+ webbing). I'll share the test result with you and you can do as you like with the other slings, use 'em or toss 'em as you deem appropriate. PM me to arrange further if this sounds like something you'd be interested in.
NP...I'm interested in the destructive breaking strength test purely from an empiric point of view...i don't have more than 6-8 of them, but I'm happy to donate them...I just don't want my life depending on them if they're rated to 50% or less of their original breaking strength.


Whitewalls


Mar 10, 2014, 2:37 PM
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As for the slings, I very much doubt there's any commercial establishment that'd do it

DMM have done trade shows where they invite climbers to have their old gear tested - purely for interest and the sake of education. So it can be done.


ebmudder


Mar 11, 2014, 4:58 AM
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Whitewalls wrote:
As for the slings, I very much doubt there's any commercial establishment that'd do it

DMM have done trade shows where they invite climbers to have their old gear tested - purely for interest and the sake of education. So it can be done.
Thanks whitewalls...yeah, I was hoping there was some university grad student trolling the boards looking for master's thesis data on "Breaking Strength of Older Climbing Equipment" Smile

Or someone with a hydraulic log splitter and time on their hands...


Partner cracklover


Mar 11, 2014, 7:56 AM
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ebmudder wrote:
Whitewalls wrote:
As for the slings, I very much doubt there's any commercial establishment that'd do it

DMM have done trade shows where they invite climbers to have their old gear tested - purely for interest and the sake of education. So it can be done.
Thanks whitewalls...yeah, I was hoping there was some university grad student trolling the boards looking for master's thesis data on "Breaking Strength of Older Climbing Equipment" Smile

Or someone with a hydraulic log splitter and time on their hands...

Send a Private Message to USNAVY. He loves that shit, and has lots of equipment.

GO


theguy


Mar 11, 2014, 5:55 PM
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ebmudder wrote:
I did further review of my cams and many of them are between 10 and 12 years old, so I will definitely be sending them in for sling-replacement.

Looks like you'll be going with Wired Bliss then...Yates won't resling cams older than 10 years, which I've incidentally realized applies to most of my cams as well...


edge


Mar 11, 2014, 6:03 PM
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theguy wrote:
ebmudder wrote:
I did further review of my cams and many of them are between 10 and 12 years old, so I will definitely be sending them in for sling-replacement.

Looks like you'll be going with Wired Bliss then...Yates won't resling cams older than 10 years, which I've incidentally realized applies to most of my cams as well...

Try Fish. http://www.fishproducts.com


ebmudder


Mar 22, 2014, 6:16 AM
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edge wrote:
theguy wrote:
ebmudder wrote:
I did further review of my cams and many of them are between 10 and 12 years old, so I will definitely be sending them in for sling-replacement.

Looks like you'll be going with Wired Bliss then...Yates won't resling cams older than 10 years, which I've incidentally realized applies to most of my cams as well...

Try Fish. http://www.fishproducts.com

Actually, I had sent them in to Yates before you responded. Maybe it was because some of my date codes were covered with tape, or maybe because the cams were in good shape, but Yates had no problem with them being 2002-vintage and are reslinging all of them.

I had requested the smaller cams to be reslung with 12mm Dyneema, but they called me to let me know they only have 14mm Spectra and 11/16 nylon. Great customer service from Yates.


ebmudder


Mar 27, 2014, 5:02 PM
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Just to close out the post, I received my cams back from Yates and they did a terrific job reslinging them...I really like the double-slung slings, although it seems like I'd still need to extend them on most placements, unless I was going straight up a crack. The quality of the stitching looks equal or better to the original slings, and the turnaround was very fast.


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