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muzzy8
Dec 7, 2014, 11:01 PM
Post #1 of 9
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Registered: Dec 6, 2014
Posts: 5
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Hi,
I've had a short break from climbing, but I'm just starting to get back into it.
I have most of the gear I need i.e. harness, shows, packs, belay devices, ascenders, descenders, tents, sleeping bags etc.
I have what I would consider a very small rack currently consisting of
DMM Wallnuts #1 - #11 (11 pieces)
BD Stoppers #4 - #13 (10 pieces)
WC wild wire 12cm draws x2
DMM sport draws (solid gate/bent gate) x10
DMM 120cm (48") sling x2
Beal 60cm (24") sling x2
BD Nut Tool
DMM Nut Tool
I looking to extend my rack I'm currently considering the following
DMM Spectre 2 Trad Draw Pack (1x 12cm, 3x 18cm, 1x 25cm) with an additional 12cm
DMM Spectre trad draws/extender draws (Spectre 2 biners, DMM 8mm/11mm Dyneema sling 60cm (24") sling)
WC Rockcentrics #5 - #9 (5 pieces with a 5 rack pack of Spectre 2 (multi coloured), racked individually)
BD Camalots C4 #0.5 - #3 (5 pieces with a 6 rack pack of BD Neutrino/Oz biners racked individually)
Camp TriCam Dyneems Set #0.5, #1.0, #1.5, #2.0 (4 pieces, rack together on spare BD biner from rack pack)
DMM 8mm/11mm Dyneema Slings 120cm (48") x2
DMM 8mm/11mm Dyneema Slings 240cm (8ft) x1
DMM Shadow Screwgate x2
If people could give feedback on item(s) I'm looking to purchase, along with alternative suggestions. The DMM dyneema slings listed are aold in a pack of 5 2x 60cm (24"), 2x 120cm (48"), 1x 240cm (8ft) which are either 8mm or 11mm, I would be happy to spend the extra $$ to get best for both, but if 8mm slings will be adequate for belays and anchors, this would be best option, as 11mm will be bulky for trad/extender draws. I've climbed previously alot with just the two sets of nuts, so am confident placing these, hence WC rockcentrics, which also means I have lots of options without investing heavily in cams.
I'm looking to use the rack for trad, alpine and mixed routes. I'm in the process of adding the necessary alpine/mixed items currently considering following
ice screws 2x 13cm/16cm 2x 16/19cm and 1x 22cm for V anchors (5 pieces total, undecided on brand, probably BD)
BD sabretooth crampon
I already own a pair of tools (BD cobras both with adze and hammer head attachments)
With aline/mixed use in mind I've tried to keep the rack suitable for a wide range of climbs with versatile pieces, I appreciate that climbing certain routes may require additional gear or doubles of what I own, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there, at the moment I'm just looking for a good well rounded rack with versatility a in mind. I'm based in UK, I've found a good retailer that is giving me a good discount on the DMM items, the rest of the items will be purchased in January from Canada, as I'm traveling there for some skiing and climbing and the price of gear in comparison to UK is about half to two thirds of the price.
Thanks for taking the time to read this, and thanks for any comments/replies.
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shockabuku
Dec 8, 2014, 2:31 AM
Post #2 of 9
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Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4868
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I'd skip the rockcentrics if you're going to get the C3's and tricams. I can't even find my own anymore and when I climb with others who own them they rarely carry them and almost never use them.
If you already have 10 sport draws I'd skip the trad draw pack in favor of more 60 cm slings and biners to make them into trad draws unless that's a cheap way to get the biners.
I generally carry numerous (8-12 depending on route length) tripled 60 cm draws, two loose ones over the shoulder, one 120 cm sling, and sometimes a 20 ft cordellette, along with a couple of spare biners and locking biners.
Don't forget a nut tool.
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muzzy8
Dec 8, 2014, 10:50 AM
Post #3 of 9
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Registered: Dec 6, 2014
Posts: 5
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thanks, I was thinking of getting a couple more trad draws (tripled 60cm slings). I quite like conventional draws as they are less bulky. would 11mm dyneema be to bulky for draws? what slings do you use for yours, I have seen some beal 6mm dyneema slings, which would really cut down bulk. I'm dropping my sport draws from the rack, saving them just for France, they have quite a few bolted routes near were I ski.
With regards hexes everyone seems to have dropped these from there rack, I just feel as four cost the same as one cam, they are a cheap option of protection. I don't have any specific routes in mind hence trying to build an all round rack. I would be looking to purchase more cams different brands as doubles on C4's to give me more options. Would you recommend buying two more cams over hexes, bearing in mind I'm also looking to use the rack for alpine/mixed, were cams are slightly less useful. Would pitons or bugaboos be more useful than hexes (I have no experience with pitons).
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moose_droppings
Dec 9, 2014, 5:35 AM
Post #4 of 9
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Registered: Jun 7, 2005
Posts: 3371
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With respect to runners, go with 9/16ths nylon or wider. They'll last 3 times longer and the bulk isn't all that much more, neither is the weight. I gave up on spectra and such years ago and haven't looked back. Much more bang for your buck.
I still have spectra on a few of my draws for ice though.
As far as hexes go, your going to get mixed opinions on them. I like them and use them regularly. They are better than cams on frozen alpine routes, if you can place them.
Edited for phone spelling
(This post was edited by moose_droppings on Dec 9, 2014, 5:40 AM)
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vinnie83
Dec 10, 2014, 6:06 PM
Post #5 of 9
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Registered: Jun 28, 2004
Posts: 112
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muzzy8 wrote: Would pitons or bugaboos be more useful than hexes (I have no experience with pitons).
No. Unless you can find some old bong pitons for sale on ebay most pitons are much smaller than hexes. With the exception of big wall routes that require a lot of nailing pitons are typically left in place. When you start doing FAs of new mixed lines you might want to consider having pitons on your rack.
Ice screws-what you listed isn't going to get you up many pure ice lines (but it doesn't sound like that is what your primary interest is) and for mixed climbing 10/13 cm screws will be more useful.
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muzzy8
Dec 10, 2014, 6:35 PM
Post #6 of 9
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Registered: Dec 6, 2014
Posts: 5
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Thanks moose_droppings, I know spectra will wear more quickly, I have got a couple of DMM nylon slings already, I'm considering the slings as consumables and appreciate they will need replacing sooner. I was more wondering sizes and suitabilities. I've pretty much decided to go with the 11mm set as this seems the best compromise.
Thanks Vinnie, was thinking two cams of different brand to double on c4s, as opposed to hexes and a small selection of pitons for mixed climbing. I think I'll stick with the hexes, this will give me a versatile rack, they will probably become obsolete as I buy more cams, but should prove useful in the mean time.
With screws what brand/type would you recommend with I'm thinking 5pcs including one 22cm and what combination for the other 4 (maybe 2x 10cm and 2x 13cm)
(This post was edited by muzzy8 on Dec 11, 2014, 12:39 AM)
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dac33
Dec 18, 2014, 10:54 AM
Post #7 of 9
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Registered: Feb 9, 2012
Posts: 44
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For some comments on gear choice read:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/High-Advanced-Multi-Pitch-Climbing-ebook/dp/B00EPFL1S6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1418899849&sr=8-1&keywords=coley+and+kirkpatrick
and review the photos at:
http://www.multipitchclimbing.com/
Hope that helps.
By the way, I have found the price difference not that great between the UK and USA. Especially if the kit is infrom a European company. Black diamond is cheaper, but don't forget if you belong to a climbing club in the UK you should get 20% off retail - and for reasons I have never found out, prices in the USA don't include sales tax.
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muzzy8
Dec 18, 2014, 5:29 PM
Post #8 of 9
(7904 views)
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Registered: Dec 6, 2014
Posts: 5
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Hi Dac,
Thanks for the recommendation, I've trawled through countless magazines and sites looking for rack advice including Andy Kirkpatrick's own website.
http://www.andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles/view/rock_rack
I was more interested if anyone had some alternatives or better suggestions on my proposed rack, I didn't want to waste my money on items that would not last or I would change/upgrade soon after my initial purchase.
I've ordered and received the DMM draws and biners from TheOutdoorShop website, they offer 10% off retail and a further 10% for BMC members (19% in total). I also picked up the DMM shadow screwgates and 11mm dyneema slings from Cotswold Outdoors who offer 15% discount for BMC members.
Even with the above stores and others offering discount and taking into account sales tax being added in Canada to quoted price the BD Camalot C4's and WC Rockcentrics still work out cheaper.
thanks
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climbinginchico
Jan 2, 2015, 3:19 AM
Post #9 of 9
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Registered: Mar 24, 2004
Posts: 3032
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What I have done for my rack, based on my personal preference and experience buying what I like is:
Small Cams:
CCH Aliens Blue-Orange
BD Camalot X4 .1-.75
The aliens are all older, and not the new ones made my Fixe or Totem, but I have a friend who loves the new Alien Evolutions by Fixe. I prefer the X4's- they feel more solid than the Aliens, and I like the narrower head since the axles don't stick out past the cam lobes as much.
I played with the Zeros and MasterCams and greatly preferred the ones I bought.
Offset cams:
You'll want these if you climb in areas with pin scars or lots of irregular cracks. I live near Yosemite, so they are essential. I have Aliens and X4's and prefer the X4 Offsets. Get a full set when you can.
Large cams:
BD C4's- .4-6. Doubles through quads of most (one .4, triples of .5 and .75, quads of 1, 2, 3, and doubles of 4, 5, with one 6.) Bomber, and the backbone of most peoples racks. Below the .4/.5 range, get a different cam with a narrower head like the Alien or X4 or MasterCam. I reach for an X4/Alien over a .5 C4 in a tougher placement, and mostly carry my smaller C4's as triples/quads when needed for really long routes.
Link Cams 1, 2. (a partner fixed the .75 in Red Rocks freeing a stuck rope and walked it into the back of a crack). I like these for anchor pieces, or oh shit pieces when you need a fast placement. Don't let them walk or rotate, and sling them appropriately to not break them.
I tried the Wild Country Tech Friends and liked the C4's. That being said, I have not tried the Helium Friends or DMM Dragons, but have friends that like them, and they seem worthy.
I rack all my cams (like 60 something at last count) on CAMP nano23 biners, color coded to the cam they go on. Yes, I am anal about it, but I like how it helps me find the cam I want faster.
I would not get the hexes. Have never used mine once I got more advanced at leading.
I have a few sets of stoppers, and take either my Frost Sentinel stoppers or BD stoppers- the Frost stoppers clean easier and I like the long wire, but are a bit less versatile with irregular cracks than a slightly curved nut.
For slings, I have all Mammut 8mm dyneema. Maybe it's because I am anal retentive about taking care my my gear and being careful to not sling in higher wear positions if possible, but mine have lasted years. I have a mix of 60cm and 120 cm (14 and 6 respectively, but don't bring them all on every climb of course.)
For the trad draws I use the CAMP photon wiregates- light, great size, and cheap. I use straight gate on the pro end and bent gate on the rope end. Different colors
keep you better organized.
I have a bunch of CAMP Photon screwgates now, and love them. Light and a good size for anchors or that critical piece that you CANNOT have unclip.
Were it me, I would get some smaller cams too, and not get the hexes. If I only had the cash for singles, I would do this:
BD X4: .3, .4, .5
BD C4: .75, 1, 2, 3
Rack them either on nano23 or OZ, whichever fits your hand better. The nano23 is lighter and cheaper, but smaller and lacks the clean nose of the OZ. It's all about personal preference.
I would get two of the DMM sling packs, you will only use the 8' sling as an anchor piece. I use one long DMM 11mm sling and a slightly shorter Mammut 8mm sling as my two anchor pieces. Love them. Josh Wharton taught me how to rack them super compactly: grab the bar tack in your fist, then wrap the sling around your hand tightly until you have 18-24" left, Then take your hand out, pinch through one end so you have a small passage through the middle, and wrap the remaining bit around the middle very tightly until you have just a bit left, then pass that through the eye and clip it with a locker. If that doesn't make sense let me know and I can post a photo.
Don't have the DMM carabiners myself, but they definitely make lust worthy carabiners. You can't go wrong if you like the feel of them.
Hope that helps.
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