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kennoyce
Mar 2, 2015, 6:04 PM
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zibircut wrote: Is it worth it? Killian Fischhuber at it. http://www.redbull.com/in/en/adventure/stories/1331707910906/tuhin-s-diaries-indian-odyssey-iii?linkId=12554376
When I hear the words "Killing a beehive" I think of killing all the bees in the hive. That is not what was done in this story, the hive was removed from the route, but the bees weren't harmed. I would have a problem with it if the bees were killed, but just removing the hive from the cliff shouldn't have any negative affects for the bees, so I have no problem with it.
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mojomonkey
Mar 2, 2015, 7:12 PM
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kennoyce wrote: zibircut wrote: Is it worth it? Killian Fischhuber at it. http://www.redbull.com/in/en/adventure/stories/1331707910906/tuhin-s-diaries-indian-odyssey-iii?linkId=12554376 When I hear the words "Killing a beehive" I think of killing all the bees in the hive. That is not what was done in this story, the hive was removed from the route, but the bees weren't harmed. I would have a problem with it if the bees were killed, but just removing the hive from the cliff shouldn't have any negative affects for the bees, so I have no problem with it.
Did you get more to this story elsewhere? Reading the link it wasn't clear to me that bees were not harmed. They said they drove them away with smoke and cut down the hive. I'm not familiar with beekeeping, but it sounds like there could still be larvae and perhaps other organisms in the hive when it was cut down. I'd also imagine the loss of food stores is a negative impact to the hive?
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onceahardman
Mar 2, 2015, 11:45 PM
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mojomonkey wrote: kennoyce wrote: zibircut wrote: Is it worth it? Killian Fischhuber at it. http://www.redbull.com/in/en/adventure/stories/1331707910906/tuhin-s-diaries-indian-odyssey-iii?linkId=12554376 When I hear the words "Killing a beehive" I think of killing all the bees in the hive. That is not what was done in this story, the hive was removed from the route, but the bees weren't harmed. I would have a problem with it if the bees were killed, but just removing the hive from the cliff shouldn't have any negative affects for the bees, so I have no problem with it. Did you get more to this story elsewhere? Reading the link it wasn't clear to me that bees were not harmed. They said they drove them away with smoke and cut down the hive. I'm not familiar with beekeeping, but it sounds like there could still be larvae and perhaps other organisms in the hive when it was cut down. I'd also imagine the loss of food stores is a negative impact to the hive?
"I'd also imagine the loss of food stores is a negative impact to the hive".
Have you ever put honey in your tea?
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mojomonkey
Mar 3, 2015, 12:02 AM
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onceahardman wrote: mojomonkey wrote: kennoyce wrote: zibircut wrote: Is it worth it? Killian Fischhuber at it. http://www.redbull.com/in/en/adventure/stories/1331707910906/tuhin-s-diaries-indian-odyssey-iii?linkId=12554376 When I hear the words "Killing a beehive" I think of killing all the bees in the hive. That is not what was done in this story, the hive was removed from the route, but the bees weren't harmed. I would have a problem with it if the bees were killed, but just removing the hive from the cliff shouldn't have any negative affects for the bees, so I have no problem with it. Did you get more to this story elsewhere? Reading the link it wasn't clear to me that bees were not harmed. They said they drove them away with smoke and cut down the hive. I'm not familiar with beekeeping, but it sounds like there could still be larvae and perhaps other organisms in the hive when it was cut down. I'd also imagine the loss of food stores is a negative impact to the hive? "I'd also imagine the loss of food stores is a negative impact to the hive". Have you ever put honey in your tea?
Yes. And?
I understand where honey comes from. As I said, I'm not familiar with the details of beekeeping to understand the impact of this and was asking. I'd still imagine there is a difference to a bee colony in removing their entire hive and honey stores than what beekeepers do. Surely they leave them enough to keep the hive viable and probably have a time frame when it is appropriate to remove honey based on colony activity and weather?
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PAbeekeeper
Mar 4, 2015, 1:08 AM
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Climber friend suggested I stop in since I'm a beekeeper, and without a doubt those guys destroyed the hive. No question whatsoever.
Long story short: If there's bees on your climb, find somewhere else to climb. They have just as much right to be there as you, if not more, and there's no way to remove them from a climb without killing them. The only way to move a hive is to physically cut out all of the comb and move it (along with the bees, honey, larva, and eggs) to a suitable location elsewhere and then go back and plug up how they were getting into the original location.
It's a fairly straight forward a process when moving them out of the wall of a house, since you can cut holes to gain access and then plug everything up tight to keep them getting back in. On a climb? Simply not possible since you can't get it all out and can't seal it up. All these guys managed to do is kill all of their brood, take away their honey and pollen stores, and make them have to start over again from scratch in a much weakened condition (and likely without a queen, effectively killing the hive).
BTW, all the smoke does is mask the intruder pheromone they give off when the hive is attacked and make them think there's a fire, which causes them to gorge themselves on honey before flying off. They'll stay in the area though, and will check back often to see if the hive is still there. If it is, they'll go back in. If not, they'll build a new one close by, if not in exactly the same place. Oh, and in case you were wondering, it's the gorging on honey that calms then down, not the smoke itself.
Anyway, if you like any of the following things, kindly leave bees alone. A full 1/3 of our food is dependent on bees for pollination, and without them we'll likely starve.
(This post was edited by PAbeekeeper on Mar 4, 2015, 1:37 AM)
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gimmeslack
Mar 4, 2015, 11:22 AM
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I am a beekeeper.
What appears to have been done did not 'relocate' the bees. It destroyed the hive.
As humans we tend to rank living creatures in arbitrary ways, often based on cuteness or cuddliness. Had that been a raptor nest, would we as climbers have considered tossing it down? Don't think so.
One colony of wild bees - and it's not even clear what *kind* of bees they are - will likely not affect issues of bee decline. That said, bees in the wild (feral bees, since after all, honey bees are a domesticated insect) are considered a very important gene reservoir, moreso now that bees in general are having a hard time. In fact, in some states here in the US, it is *illegal* to destroy a feral hive ;-)
(This post was edited by gimmeslack on Mar 4, 2015, 11:28 AM)
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PAbeekeeper
Mar 4, 2015, 3:04 PM
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Actually, I take that back. Given where they were (high up a cliff, under an overhang, in South Central India), the bees were most likely Apis Dorsata Dorsata and removing them from the cliff is pretty straight forward due to them building their comb /on/ the cliff rather than /in/ it.
That said, /removal/ is far different than /relocating/, and the idea that two non-beekeepers could find a way to remove a fragile, possibly table-sized piece of honeycomb weighing anywhere from 30 to 100 pounds without breaking it, while being swarmed by tens of thousands of angry bees (which are twice the size of the one's Americans are familiar with) and successfully reattaching it to a suitable cliff elsewhere is laughable.
The beginning of this video should give a good idea of the scale of things, and just how silly an idea "relocating the hive" is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpidR6Wb8Wg
On a side note, Gimmeslack- none of the Apis Dorsata strains have ever been domesticated due to their habit of nesting in difficult to reach places, frequent migration, and habit of absconding. They are completely and utterly wild. Also, while I agree that one hive isn't something to get too upset about in terms of bee decline, the same was said about the ivory billed woodpecker and passenger pigeon.
(This post was edited by PAbeekeeper on Mar 4, 2015, 3:50 PM)
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PAbeekeeper
Mar 4, 2015, 4:53 PM
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Not just similiar, Gimmeslack, but very closely related... both are subspecies of Apis Dorsata. Apis Dorsata Dorsata is mainly found in India and is slightly smaller than it's Himalayan cousin, Apis Dorsata Laboriosa.
Here's a pic of how Apis d. Laboriosa hives are harvested... They're simply knocked off the cliff with long sticks into baskets: 
BTW, I've been using [ i m g ] and [ / i m g ] tags, without the spaces, for pics.
And is this site usually this buggy? Rarely loads for me and throws lots of 502 and 504 errors.
(This post was edited by PAbeekeeper on Mar 4, 2015, 6:20 PM)
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PAbeekeeper
Mar 4, 2015, 9:01 PM
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Perhaps killing them /is/ the answer then.
Anyway, I trust this was the input you were looking for, Camhead? Unless there's other questions, I don't think I have anything more to say about it. Plus, I much prefer talking about bugs over suffering from them. :)
(This post was edited by PAbeekeeper on Mar 4, 2015, 9:45 PM)
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billcoe_
Apr 8, 2015, 10:01 PM
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PAbeekeeper wrote: Perhaps killing them /is/ the answer then. Anyway, I trust this was the input you were looking for, Camhead? Unless there's other questions, I don't think I have anything more to say about it. Plus, I much prefer talking about bugs over suffering from them. :)
Someone took a left turn in there someplace.....
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PAbeekeeper
Apr 8, 2015, 10:50 PM
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billcoe_ wrote: Someone took a left turn in there someplace.....
More of a poorly worded joke about killing forum bugs...
(This post was edited by PAbeekeeper on Apr 9, 2015, 2:39 PM)
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