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mudhoney
Feb 11, 2003, 9:03 PM
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How do you feel when someone tells you that you aren't really climbing or a climber until you are at least climbing lead.
Most people in the climbing community I have met are extremely supportive when it comes to beginners starting to climb...however....I have heard the odd comment about your not really a climber if you are top roping.
I have a feeling that most of you will not agree with this.
[ This Message was edited by: mudhoney on 2003-02-11 13:03 ]
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cerikpete
Feb 11, 2003, 9:15 PM
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I ignore them and do what I like.
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thegodfather
Feb 11, 2003, 9:16 PM
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rope? who uses a rope?
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tcollins
Feb 11, 2003, 9:17 PM
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Ditto. Chances are I'm better than they are at something else, so who really cares. As long as I'm having fun, what's it matter.
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mikefreeman
Feb 11, 2003, 9:17 PM
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elitest jerks and climbers who need to boost their ego will tell you that its not climbing if you are on TR. if you start at the bottom of the rock and make it to the top, you are climbing it. everyone's got to get started in their own fashion, right? my personal opinion: get off TR as soon as possible, leading is more challenging and more fun
[ This Message was edited by: mikefreeman on 2003-02-11 13:18 ]
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wigglestick
Feb 11, 2003, 9:30 PM
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What is the difference between dating and being married? The difference between being a dirtbag climber and a dirtbag climber with a trust fund? It is all about levels of commitment. I don't think it has anything to do with egos or being an elitist.
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mikefreeman
Feb 11, 2003, 9:46 PM
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wigglestick--
sometimes it does. i've run into a number of 'em. i agree though that to some its a level of comitment.
[ This Message was edited by: mikefreeman on 2003-02-11 13:50 ]
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flynnypek
Feb 11, 2003, 10:06 PM
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I don't care as long as I'm doing what I like...
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no_limit
Feb 11, 2003, 10:10 PM
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Although leading is WAY more fun. I still like to top rope. I like top roping, because I can climb a lot harder without having to stop and clip, plus the fear factor goes down a fair amount while on top rope.
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funktimonious
Feb 11, 2003, 10:12 PM
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Tell those people, "you're not really a climber untill you do ONLY TR". Untill there's a governing body to judge such conflicts...your word is as good as mine.
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tucsonalex
Feb 11, 2003, 10:17 PM
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Having fun is what matters most, I do an equal amount of top roping and leading. Don't worry about what anyone else says. If they give you a hard time tell them to piss off or you will cut their rope.
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mother_sheep
Feb 11, 2003, 10:21 PM
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My older son TRs up and down 5.7s in the gym. He's a climber. My 3 year old makes 2-3 bouldering moves in the gym. He's a climber. I'll TR just about anything and lead whatever I feel comfortable leading, not much but hey, I'm working on it. I'm a climber. My partners can pretty much lead 5.11 and not think twice about it. They're all climbers. So we all vary a bit in our comfort zone. Just because one individual is willing to commit more than another, I don't think it makes me, my sons or any other person that is less comfortable leading any less of a climber. Its all relative, IMHO.
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skaggs
Feb 11, 2003, 10:23 PM
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I'm not going to really feel like a climber until i've climbed lead, but i'd never say that someone else isn't a climber just because they haven't. Climbing is climbing regardless of whether the rope is hanging below you or above you. All that matters is how you feel about it.
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wigglestick
Feb 11, 2003, 10:49 PM
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While I wholeheartedly agree that anybody who has ever pulled on some holds with their hands and pushed with their feet is indeed a climber, the rich history of the sport has drawn an arbitrary line between toproping and leading and uses it as a metric for establishing the validty of an ascent. Which is why you never read about top roped ascents in the climbing mags.
Right or wrong, these Elitists you all hate are merely trying to inform you about what the accepted terminology is to describe your accomplishments. I don't doubt that there are a-holes who make you feel like crap by discounting your accomplishments but they have decades of history to back up their feelings.
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drector
Feb 11, 2003, 11:07 PM
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Although some climbers only consider an ascent to be valid when they lead it, they should stop and consider that they can only validating THEIR ascent. No one has the right to validate my ascent. It is my business and I resent those who "validate" anything I do. It IS elitist to believe that you are qualified to validate anything anyone else does.
Oh, and in answer to the question; I did not talk to many climbers when I started but since I started at local crags that have many TR routes, no one seemed to care about the sifference in style. All the climbers I talked to were supportive and only showed me that leading would open new horizons by allowing me access to more climbs and more adventure.
BTW, I progressed quickly when I started purely because I could get in more climbing on tope rope than I could have gotten leading. I could top rope climb three routes in the time it would take to lead one.
Dave
PS: Validate This! (you'll have to picture it because I won't show a picture)
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hawk233
Feb 11, 2003, 11:19 PM
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-How to tell if your a climber-
Q. Do you move up rock under your own stregnth?
Yes? Congratulations, you're a climber to me. I don't give a flying %@#$ where the rope is.
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miklimbs0503
Feb 11, 2003, 11:32 PM
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luckily everyone ive met so far have been supernice and havent said any negative things about TRin or being a beginner
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mwbtle
Feb 11, 2003, 11:43 PM
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Don't listen to them. If you don't fall, the only difference is clipping the bolts, and the mind games. If you feel like you climbed something regardless of how you did it or how many times you fell, you climbed it. This hobby/sport/whatever is not a team sport, so consider it climbed when you want to...just don't expect everyone else to agree with you, because they probably won't until you do it on lead without the use of your left arm without falling blindfolded.
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misha
Feb 11, 2003, 11:44 PM
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your not a climber until you boulder.
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scrappydoo
Feb 11, 2003, 11:50 PM
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Shades of grey man, shades of grey.
While I consider TRing as a form of climbing, I -like the elitist jerks- can't help but wince when someone brags about going "climbing" over the weekend when all they did was get hauled up some low-grade route. Now, now; don't flame me yet. I have no problems with climbing easier routes or TRing, but I don't like to start conversations with people who "went climbing", and as the conversation coninues, realize that they don't even know what a figure-eight is. Maybe it's 'cause I live in Boulder which is alternately, and concurrently, the climbing poser and hardcore professional capitol of the nation (camp 4 excepted).
I guess what I'm trying to say is that, bottom-line, don't represent your climbing as something it isn't; especially if your TRing with the rope under tension the whole route. It's far different than running-out an airy trad lead. That is probably why elitists deride topropers; because, stated or not, they feel you are trying to equate TRing with trad leading.
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mhr2000
Feb 12, 2003, 6:26 AM
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This falls in the category of "who cares what anyone else thinks".
No need to tell them off with some smartbutt comeback, just go about your business and ignore them.
Nothing you say back to this person is going to matter to them so why let their words matter to you?
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thegodfather
Feb 12, 2003, 6:36 AM
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you are not a climber until you...climb...
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esskay33
Feb 12, 2003, 6:40 AM
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my best friend and climbing partner said to me "TR is not real climbing" and it pushed me to lead climb. so there is some positive to this statement, but then again he is my best friend and so it was different than some jerk saying it to a beginner.
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rjtrials
Feb 12, 2003, 6:46 AM
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I must admit that I reek of an elitist attitude. The standards I hold myself to are high, especially for a sport climber.
I dont consider a route "climbed" unless it is done on lead. If I happen to grab a draw or two, I definately add "with a point of aid."
A route, to me, can be "sent" with the gear pre-placed, but I would much prefer a true redpoint by placing my own draws.
That being said, I try not to hold others to the standards set for myself. It is difficult, not just in climbing, but in all areas of my life. I just have to remember that everyone has their own standards and forcing mine on the masses is fascist.
So go TR your route! More power to you! I am tickled pink that you are out climbing and enjoying the greatest pastime ever! Just dont brag about it to me.
RJ
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roseraie
Feb 12, 2003, 7:41 AM
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I'm a beginner, and I still haven't led, but I think I'm climbing! I'm climbing as hard as I can to get stronger and have better technique, so that when I lead I don't have to stick to 5.6. I know I'm going to stick with this until I can lead and climb hard so that makes me a climber. (And I want to lead this weekend. REALLY BAD. Rain rain go away...)
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