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akaijen
Feb 22, 2003, 5:13 PM
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Ok, here's my deal in a nutshell:
I happen to be taking a lead class right now. I also happen to have an opportunity to do some sport climbing outside in a month. At the time I'm writing this, I've only ever mock lead in the gym.
Assuming I pass the lead test next week and my gym will let me practice on their walls, what can I do to prepare for a day trip in a month? My aim isn't to go up a level or anything like that- just be able to climb anything at all on my trip.
I've noticed that most of the serious climbers in my gym are all climbing laps, and I assume that everyone's gearing up for the upcoming warm weather. I already go to the gym 2x a week, but should I start doing laps too?
Should I consider climbing with a bunch of draws hanging off my harness to get used to the added weight? Unfortunately it doesn't look like there'll be any opportunity to practice outside before I go on my trip.
Thanks!
Jen
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flying_dutchman
Feb 22, 2003, 6:07 PM
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you sound like you have never climbed outside before. If you have, then you know exactly what to expect, but if you haven't, dont worry, your not in for a shock. Outdoor climbing isn't that different; its better but not any harder nessesary.
If you are an average climber indoors; able to lead 5.9's or 10's, then it should be no problem to adjust to the different style of climbing and if ur doing an indoor course, im assuming that you can lead at least a 5.9 cause thats usually the easiest indoor lead climb grade. As for weight training, don't bother till you actually try outdoor lead and see what its like first. Just make sure you climb with others who have previous experience the first few times.
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weaselman
Feb 22, 2003, 7:00 PM
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how far apart are the bolts in your gym? a vet in my gym told me that even though i lead indoors, theres only an 8 foot fall potential indoors while its much greater outdoors.
i'm not sure how right that is, but he seems like he knows what hes talking about
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indeco
Feb 22, 2003, 7:44 PM
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I would be a bit concerned.
Indoors is designed to be a fail safe environment and by your own admission you are just learning. As it has been mentioned above your falls outdoors can be much longer (and if you can get an eight foot fall in a gym i would be surprised). Outdoors your routes can zig zag and they can traverse. Out door routes can have ankle smashing ledges. Have they tought you what to do when you get to the top and are looking at two cold shuts. Do you know how to lace your rope through so that you can lower back off and not leave gear. Can you do this without risking your life. Who will be your belay? do they have enough experience to keep you safe when falling and will they recognize a mistake if you make it? Do you know how to handle cleaning a route that has moved left or right a lot (or overhangs). Have they tought you that these routes can put a large amount of slack in the line as you take the last draw off, enough slack to hit the ground.
This list could go on and on, and my big fear is they can't teach you outdoor skills till your taken outdoors.
I do hope you have a great trip, perhaps this time you might be able to splurge and get a guide who can teach some skills.
Cheers
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nailzz
Feb 22, 2003, 9:37 PM
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In reply to: Assuming I pass the lead test next week and my gym will let me practice on their walls, what can I do to prepare for a day trip in a month?
Just get used to leading routes as much as possible in the gym. It will not be the same thing. Somebody mentioned bolts being really close together in gyms. This is very true. Depending on where you climb of course, but don't expect bolts to be 6 feet apart outside, especially on more moderate routes.
In reply to: I've noticed that most of the serious climbers in my gym are all climbing laps
They are doing endurance training. What you need most is good psychological preparation. You will need to control your fear more than you will need huge endurance. That will come later.
In reply to: Should I consider climbing with a bunch of draws hanging off my harness to get used to the added weight?
It might not be a bad idea, but draws weigh so little that getting used to the extra weight shouldn't be a very big factor at all.
Get your mind ready to lead outside more than anything. Pick people's brains as much as possible in the gym. Make sure you know how to clip a bolt correctly. Make sure you understand back-clipping and z-clipping if that is a factor. Make sure you know what to do when you get to the anchors. Do NOT lead your first route with somebody who is less experienced than yourself. Make sure your partner is competent and safety-conscious. If they don't double-check every inch of your system and ensure that you know exactly what will be doing every step of the way, then they are not doing you any favors.
Be careful. Don't get in over your head, and you will have a great time. But, if you have any doubts about anyting, make sure they are settled before you leave the ground.
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tenn_dawg
Feb 22, 2003, 9:52 PM
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It's sad.
More and more people are learning to climb inside via courses, and classes.
While this may be a benifit in terms of predictably, and safety, it has a fundamental flaw.
Climbing is all about being uncertain, scared, and at the same time, confident.
Some of the greatest climbing memories I have are of me pulling the last couple of tough moves at the end of a trad runout, or slowly greasing as I'm trying to clip a bolt. Always with a ledge below that may be just a little bit too close for comfort.
Climbing outside is all about the uncetainty of what you are doing, and what lies above. It's all about praying for good placements, and cussing at runouts. It's about looking at the thunderclouds billowing in the distance durring the 2nd pitch of a 4 pitch climb.
It's about being scared, and uncertain, and then pulling through under your own power.
It's about finding something inside yourself that you did not know you had.
Climbing a route in the gym, with shiny bolts, and plastic taped holds is not even the same, nor is it preparation beyond the most basic movements (such as clipping a bolt).
Grab your gear, and go outside. Be scared, be careful, and have faith in yourself.
That is all the preparation you need.
Travis
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akaijen
Feb 23, 2003, 12:25 AM
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Thanks, I think. Honestly I'm not sure how to take some of the comments, but to clarify a few things:
I've been climbing almost a year, and yes I have climbed outside. I admit my outdoor experience is limited since during the time I've been climbing there haven't been a lot of weekends with favorable weather. We're snow covered even now, and actually I feel lucky that I have a nice gym to go to when the weather is crappy.
I've been taking classes at the gym b/c not everyone (including great climbers) is a good teacher, and well frankly, the gyms are where the teachers are unless of course you live in a town that has a lot of nearby outside climbing. Lucky for me, the instructors at my gym are not only really great teachers but also awe-inspiring climbers both indoors and out.
The lead class is a safety class more than anything, though they make you pass a level test (demonstrate ability to perform several advanced techniques as well as show that you can cleanly climb 5.10s) before you can take the lead class, and the instructor is particularly safety-minded. I don't feel like I'm being shortchanged by initially learning the techniques indoors. Yes I know what z-clipping is, along with backstepping and backwards clipping. Yes, I'm going to learn to clean routes in a safe environment before I go, though I expect not to have to worry about that since, yes I'm hiring a guide. Lastly, yes I will learn how to fall, though I am aware that it won't be the same outside, but I really can't see any other choice. Should I never climb outside because I've been spoiled by indoor climbing?
The trip I'm going on is quite serendipitious, and is to a "to die for location" (for lack of a better phrase)- Cape Town, South Africa. If you had that opportunity, would you pass it up? Personally, I'd never forgive myself. I have a separate thread posted in the regions forum asking about reputable guides. I have no intention of kiling myself, or doing something dumb if for no other reason than my next stop after Cape Town is Botswana for a safari trip, which I wouldn't miss for the world.
I guess since most of the discussion in this thread angled towards whether or not I am just plain ill-prepared to go at all, I'll assume that the best strategy towards preparing to leave the safe confines of the gym would be to just keep practicing.
You're all right, ideally I'd rather go outside a few times before going on this trip, but I just don't have a choice. I live on the east coast which is still buried in snow and is now flooding. So, I started to think... hmm I have to go outside sometime - the location is almost irrelevant once I walk out the door, no?
Lastly, I see a ton of posts on rc.com proclaiming what climbing is all about, and honestly I don't see how anyone can say definitively what it's about b/c it seems like a very personal thing for each individual. For me, it's about doing something I never thought I'd learn to do and realizing that I'm even kinda good at it. It clears my mind like no other sport, and the sense of accomplishment is unmatched by almost anything else in my life. I confound even myself that I'm going to try to make this trip. Maybe I'll freak out and beg them to lower me after getting only half way up, but I doubt it. I think I can do it and like I said, I'd never forgive myself if I don't try. I don't personally think it's about being scared or uncertain, but if that floats your boat more power to you. It's all about something else entirely for me.
Sorry if I sound like I'm ranting. I just feel like everyone is trying to discourage me, which is surpsing since many other posts end with people encouraging everyone to go outside.
Jen
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climbinggirl33
Feb 23, 2003, 12:37 AM
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You go Girl!
Nuff said.
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kman
Feb 23, 2003, 12:53 AM
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I don't see why you are getting defensive. You asked a question and got some good answers. I did not see any negative remarks what so ever. Since you are going with a guide, it might be a good idea to get him to teach you about anchors, and how to safely clean anchors and setup rappels. If anyone tells you that you should stay indoors because that's where you have climbed most give em a nice swift kick in the arse.
I'm sure you will have a blast. Enjoy!!
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maculated
Feb 23, 2003, 12:54 AM
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Hi Jen,
I learned in a gym, too. Lots of people make the transition with no problem, but it IS a bit more tricky because while the gyms can get rated the same, those big, colored holds are obvious and part of the thing about climbing outside is figuring out where the next hold is.
I find it interesting that your classes require you to climb 5.10 before you lead. I know that I couldn't do that when I started leading, and I'm sure a lot of us didn't.
As for your super trip, I don't really know about your climbing situation. You'll obivously need a partner, and they should be able to belay safely. If they can lead, then, hey - who cares? YOu're stoked. If they can't, and you know your stuff (at least at a sport level), there's nothing to stop you from leading lower grades. If you can climb 5.10 in a gym, you should probably be fine on 5.6-5.8 outdoors.
Check out books on anchors. That's one thing your indoors classes can't help you with. With luck, if nothing else, you can top rope, but you need to know how to build anchors safely. Anchors in gyms negate needing to learn this skill.
Just don't be too disappointed with yourself. I had a trip to J-Tree last weekend and I 'trained' by going to the gym a lot and climbing in the Owens Gorge and Red Rocks two weeks before. I got there and was like, "I can't lead this 5.6!!!" Every place you go is different.
I think part of the reason people aren't stoked on your going outside is that you are doing it to go on this trip. I definitely would be wary about a new area with a new leader. Like with my J-Tree trip . . . it's always a different story. In Red Rocks I felt great, but the minute I got to J-Tree and got on this sandbagged 5.6, I knew I was done for.
That is all.
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tenn_dawg
Feb 23, 2003, 1:18 AM
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I truely hope that what I wrote was not taken in the wrong way by you.
The whole point of my post saw that climbing outside is different from inside, and in all aspects much more vivid and rewarding.
Every sentence in my post was written to inspire you to push yourself, and take the plunge into climbing in the real world!
I think that you are ready, and should take the step without any hesitation!
Yours:In reply to: It clears my mind like no other sport, and the sense of accomplishment is unmatched by almost anything else in my life.
Mine:In reply to: It's about finding something inside yourself that you did not know you had.
We have something in common with our beliefs on what Rock Climbing really is.
Get on with it. You've got it in you.
Oh, and as an afterthought, If the weather up there's got you bummed out, head down towards TN! It's NICE down here. I'll hold your rope for you!
Travis
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akaijen
Feb 23, 2003, 1:22 AM
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Maculated,
I guess I get what you're saying. I probably just should have just said, I've never lead climbed outside and what can I do to prepare myself. But I felt like there were more factors.
I think the fact that I'm asking the question shows that I'm aware that going outside is different. Yea I'm little nervous about it, and maybe even a little scared, but I may never have this opportunity again. I'm not making the trip to climb - I happen to be going to a place with incredible climbing and will have a day off to do it.
As far as I can tell there is only trad and sport climbing there, and so I actually feel pretty lucky that I happen to be at a level where I am learning to lead - otherwise, I would do something else with my day off. If it were only trad, I wouldn't do it either. I know I'm not ready for that yet.
As for the requirement to climb 5.10s before taking the class at my gym - it's part of a whole reorg my gym did of all their classes. They have classes grouped by level and you can't take classes in a certain level unless you've passed the level test. Mostly I think it's to ensure that people have the foundations before taking certain classes. It would be annoying, say, to be working on inside flagging in a class and have someone who didn't know what flagging was at all. I'm not sure why the lead class is in the level it is. Before this reorg, I think the requirement was that you had to be able to climb 5.9s. I'm actually glad they do it that way b/c it forced me to really think about whether or not I was really ready to do it.
I'm actually a really careful person, much to the chagrin of my climbing partners. They think I'm overly cautious and read too many posts on the internet. haha
Jen
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wv5ten
Feb 23, 2003, 1:27 AM
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You can never be to cautious climbing. Its the people who grow complacent that wind up hurt or worse.
now with that dreariness out of the way, Good luck! :D I know that you'll have a great experience. Just have fun and the rest will follow
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nailzz
Feb 23, 2003, 3:17 AM
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Um, I don't know if I am one of those who was 'trying to discourage you' but that certainly wasn't my intention. My intention was to address the issues you brought up to the best of my ability and based on what little information I had about you.
In reply to: Yes I know what z-clipping is, along with backstepping and backwards clipping.
Did I offend you by trying to ensure that you understood some potentially very dangerous practices that many people on this site seem to not fully understand? I won't apologize if I did, because I'd rather have you hate me and know what these things are than like me and backclip an entire route. My point was more for you to learn as much as possible from your teachers and peers at the gym while you can. They sound like an excellent resource. Get your money's worth and bleed them for all the knowledge they can muster.
Again, I hope you didn't take my post as discouragement. I thought back to my first time leading outside (which was also after leading in the gym first) and tried to recall some of the issues that came up for me. But, by the time I was outside on the sharp end, I had so much stuff drilled into my head that I felt prepared. I was still scared, which I think is normal and healthy, but I didn't make any technical mistakes thanks to having people who were patient enough to make sure I knew what the hell I was doing before I did it.
Good luck.
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