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motley


Apr 2, 2003, 6:44 PM
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:cry: make sure that when using a gri gri, you still act like you are using an atc. also, any rope under 10mm is NOT going to automatically lock! (READ THE GRI GRI). i dropped someone to the ground when i was not paying full attention. and she was climbing on a new 9.7. it was frightening how fast the rope went through the grigri. i did not even have time to react. she is fine, but i was not. be a cautious, educated belayer. you never know when it will happen to you.


kman


Apr 2, 2003, 6:54 PM
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You should have figured this out before hand. Live and learn. Hopefully you learned.


bmoscon


Apr 2, 2003, 6:59 PM
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wow, thats scary


macattack22


Apr 2, 2003, 7:00 PM
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Er, WTF is 9.7? Did you mean 5.7? Or 5.9? :P


crazywacky


Apr 2, 2003, 7:01 PM
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I think he's talking about the diameter of the rope.


petsfed


Apr 2, 2003, 7:02 PM
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Practice before someone gets on the other end of that rope. The thing is not idiot proof. Look at the pictures every time you use it.

When I put the rope in to the device, I look at the system again, figure out where the climber is and tell them, as they watch me put the rope in "this is you." Once its in, I pull a few times to make sure everything is working correctly. I still have my reverso for multi pitch stuff and when the gri-gri does not work (eg mud, ice, skinny ropes, long rappels, etc.)


paulv7


Apr 3, 2003, 6:40 AM
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This needs to be linked to that other post about the guy who didn't trust his wife belaying 100%. All those people saying get her a gri gri.

Glad no one was hurt.


leaverbiner


Apr 3, 2003, 6:50 AM
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The problem was that he/she didn't read the instructions . . . the instruction specifically say not designed for ropes of less than 10 mm !!! If you go below that you best be extra attentive.

Sorry to hear about your accident! Don't kill yourself about it. Your partner is fine, and you learned a good lesson.


bartlax


Apr 3, 2003, 6:52 AM
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Not to point fingers and I am thankful that no one is hurt, but it seems that the best protection is to thoroughly read all literature given to you when purchasing ANY new piece of equipment. You also may want to seek instruction from someone you KNOW has used the equipment as well before venturing out on your own. Sometimes we forget how dangerous this sport really is!

In reply to:
I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. That, or Duder. His Dudeness. Or El Duderino, if,you know, you're not into the whole
brevity thing-- The Dude.


mustclimb69


Apr 3, 2003, 6:54 AM
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Part of the problem could have been due to the new rope.
New ropes are smoothers and produce less friction. It still should have locked though. I have climbed on 9.7mm with a gri gri several times and it always locks.
the friction lip is there for a reason and might help.
I automatically pull down and towards my self when my climber falls. Might help as well. :wink:


neomagi


Apr 3, 2003, 6:59 AM
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when i use my grigri, i tend to use it exactly as i would an ATC, right up until it is locked. everyone knows not to take the break hand off the rope, and to apply the break when the climber falls. if the belayer treats the grigri in the same fashion, you shouldn t have a problem.


bartlax


Apr 3, 2003, 7:08 AM
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a bit off the original topic but a question regarding gri gri's all the same. How does everyone lead belay whith the gri gri?? I find trying to feed it through as if it were an ATC to be entirely cumbersome. However the other day I saw someone holding the actual gri gri in their right hand, while feeding rope with the left and no hand on the brake side of the rope. Doesn't seem to be all that safe if you ask me, especially if the above circumstances were to occur. Any thoughts???????? :lol:


climblouisiana


Apr 3, 2003, 7:10 AM
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I always check to make sure that the belayer has threaded the gri-gri correctly when I'm climbing. A quick visual inspection or a tug on the rope to make sure it locks works for me.


rockmx


Apr 3, 2003, 7:18 AM
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NEVER NEVER NEVER LET THE ROPE GO FROM YOU BRAKE HAND, SHEEES.... I know that you feel bad, but you broke the fist gold rule of climbing.


shortfatoldguy


Apr 3, 2003, 7:19 AM
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How does everyone lead belay whith the gri gri??
In reply to:
There was a thread about this recently, but I can't find it. The consensus seemed to be--and this is what I now do--to belay palm up, to slide the brake hand up the brake strand until the pinky, or pinky and ring finger, is on the lever-cam assembly and can apply some downward force, and to yard with the guide hand as usual.


timstich


Apr 3, 2003, 7:48 AM
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A little added advice for belaying:

When you are at the crag talking to your buddies while belaying your leader, put your brake hand behind you in the braking position. Then, if your leader pops off unexpectedly while you are holding your conversation, you will feel the tug and automatically lock off.

But wait! You say you are talking to someone while belaying???

Yes. Like drinking and driving, we have all done it. This is especially true at the same ho-hum walls we visit every weekend. Last Sunday at Reimer's Ranch near Austin, I watched two guys climbing "Dead Cats." This climb has been the scene of many an accident involving botched belays. In this case, the leader was approaching the anchors on the thin, slopey holds. He was looking strong, so there didn't appear to be any problems. His belayer was having a casual conversation with someone next to him.

Then the leader pops off without saying a word. Before you know it, he's three feet from decking and his belayer is still examining his hand postion. It was a clean fall, fortunately. I have to say, it really alarmed me to witness the whole thing. I tersely said, "Pay attention next time." Words I need to remind myself as well at these places that feel safe from overfamiliarity.

So keep those brake hands locked off if you feel compelled to chit chat. And if you have attention deficit disorder, maybe you should just chat later.


jt512


Apr 3, 2003, 2:03 PM
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In reply to:
The problem was that he/she didn't read the instructions . . . the instruction specifically say not designed for ropes of less than 10 mm !!!

Actually, the instructions say: "For use with a single 10-11 mm UIAA dynamic rope (9.7 accepted)."

-Jay


trbrts


Apr 3, 2003, 2:19 PM
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I had a brand new 10mm rope zip through a gri gri once pretty good. I was able to lock it off quickly though. Enough to kind of freak me out some. Watch the new ropes in Gri Gri's. They feed well, but also don't like to lock sometimes. I now use a 10.5 with my gri gri.


jt512


Apr 3, 2003, 2:25 PM
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In reply to:
A little added advice for belaying:

When you are at the crag talking to your buddies while belaying your leader, put your brake hand behind you in the braking position.

I totally disagree with this. If I see someone belaying with their hand behind their butt, I immediately know four things:

1. They are a beginner.
2. They are going to short rope me on every clip.
3. They don't know how to give a dynamic belay.
4. There is no way I'm going to let them belay me without my retraining them first.

First of all, the correct position for the brake hand while braking is not "behind you." It is near your hip. Secondly, unless the leader is resting or moving like a snail, the best position for the brake hand is in front of you, about 45 degrees from the leader's side of the rope. From this position, you can easily lock off, take up slack, or quickly let out rope, as needed. With your hand behind you, about all you can do is short-rope your partner.

-Jay


smithclimber


Apr 3, 2003, 2:33 PM
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Grigris aren't at fault any more than guns.

I've said it before, I'll say it again -

Grigris don't drop people - people drop people.

As mentioned above, if you use it just like you would any other device (locking off properly) you won't have any problems with it (even on 9.4mm ropes).

Remember that YOU catch the climber. Don't EXPECT or RELY on the Grigri to do the catching.

And yes, you need to be particularly attentive when using newer ropes with ANY belay/rappel device. Newer ropes tend to be slick.


ptone


Apr 3, 2003, 9:43 PM
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on grigris and leading... [In reply to]
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A couple of things were said about giving with a gri gri when lead belaying. I do wrap my brake hand around as mentioned and use my pinky to bar the friction gate when giving rope, but i NEVER let go of the brake hand!
Its a little awkward at first, but a little practice will fix that.

The difference is that with an ATC or reverso I hold my brake hand palm down, thumb up (that gives the best leverage).
With the gri gri I hold it palm up, rope between my thumb and first two (or three) fingers, and wrap the device only when I need to give some.

You want to pay attention to your climber, but then, don't you always? :wink:

-p


macattack22


Apr 3, 2003, 10:18 PM
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*duh* Ok I'm a big doof. Of COURSE 9.7 is the rope diameter, i should have caught that the first time, but I read it wrong. I'm too used to seeing the units listed with the numbers, so when I see just x.y I automatically think "grade". I think I was PUI at the time anyway @_@ (posting under the influence....)

On a more topic-related note, I have issues with grigris, and I try to avoid using them as much as I can. I prefer something like an ATC that requires me to pay attention to the rope and device in my hand, and I prefer to be belayed by someone using just the same - rather than something that gives you a false sense of security that it'll do the hard work for you. I'm not saying that grigris are for idiots, at all, I know there are some very intelligent people who use them who have never had issues with them, but I just prefer something less mechanical.

but, I'm done rambling.... :P


aimeerose


Apr 4, 2003, 1:14 PM
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To lead belay on a gri gri, I release the rope (OMG shoot me) and squeeze the gri gri and feed with my left hand. It's the best way not to hose your climber in my opinion. It's what I feel comfortable with since I've never dropped my climber in 4 years, so I think it works.


timstich


Apr 4, 2003, 6:23 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
A little added advice for belaying:

When you are at the crag talking to your buddies while belaying your leader, put your brake hand behind you in the braking position.

I totally disagree with this. If I see someone belaying with their hand behind their butt, I immediately know four things:

1. They are a beginner.

(the rest of the illuminating information snipped.)

Whatever, Jay.

The point is to pay attention to the leader. If the guy I saw drop his buddy had done that, he could have made the fall a lot shorter.


timstich


Apr 4, 2003, 6:29 PM
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In reply to:
...I prefer something like an ATC that requires me to pay attention to the rope and device in my hand, and I prefer to be belayed by someone using just the same - rather than something that gives you a false sense of security that it'll do the hard work for you. ...

The guy I saw drop his leader was using an ATC. The first thing another observer asked him was, "Do you know how to use that thing?" He claimed that he did, he just wasn't paying attention.

But yeah, you obviously have more respect for the device than this guy did. I prefer an ATC as well and leave my Gri-gri at home now. I don't even require a Gri-gri for someone working a route.

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