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UN-tightening Tight water-knots
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rockjock04


Dec 27, 2001, 8:15 PM
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UN-tightening Tight water-knots
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I top rope alot cause thats all I can do in my area. One thing that I cant stand Is pulling off fingernails and making fingers go numb trying to undo that stupid water knot! Do any of you have any suggestions on how to ease this up? Would threading some cord through the knot before Tightening it make it easier to undo by pulling up on the cord or would that weaken the knot? Thanks alot.


paintinhaler


Dec 27, 2001, 8:27 PM
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 I dont know about the cord sounds like that would work, I dont know. What you can do is hit the knot a little bit with a hammer or smooth rock to loosen it up. big wall 101


pollux


Dec 27, 2001, 9:02 PM
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what type of knot?


socialclimber


Dec 28, 2001, 12:30 AM
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The only use for a water knot I know of is for tying tape(webbing) Thats why it's also called a tape knot.
So what are you using this knot for and why are you having to undo it so much?
There is a tool called a Fid that net makers use for splicing rope and a small one of these is perfect for opening tight knots. They are very light. I don't bother to carry one on my rack but I keep a 4" fid in my pack. Contact a net shed, commercial rope retailer or maybe a sailing shop to get one. My one is so generic it dosen't even have a brand name on it. don't expect to pay much.

[ This Message was edited by: socialclimber on 2001-12-28 02:09 ]


Partner rrrADAM


Dec 28, 2001, 12:43 AM
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Open the gate to a biner and use the hook to aid in loosening the knot. A nut tool will also do this.


rrrADAM


compclimber


Dec 28, 2001, 1:08 AM
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Do what adam said, use a carabiner or a nut tool (prefered) but... Get the knot dripping wet first, getting it wet a bit lubricates the knot a little more and helps it to come undone. If I do need to do this I usualy just dump whatever's left in my nalgene bottle on it, then set to the task at hand.


But anyways, its only webbing, cut it..set aside 60 cents through the week and buy three more feet of it to make up for what you cut...sometimes moving fast is worth more than 60 cents.

[ This Message was edited by: compclimber on 2001-12-28 01:56 ]


jds100


Dec 28, 2001, 6:50 AM
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I'm not sure why you want to undo the water knot. I've used the water knot to make long "permanent" slings (loops) of webbing to set up TRs. If one sling isn't long enough, I girth hitch it with another until I've got the length I need.

Considering the potential for disaster if the knot comes undone before you want it to, and considering that webbing can be a bit slick, I'd always choose to err on the side of caution, and just tie the slings at whatever length(s) I want, and leave 'em tied.

It sounds like maybe you're wrapping the webbing around an anchor (tree) and then tieing in the water knot, and then needing to untie it at the end of the day. I strongly suggest you get more than one piece of webbing, and tie different lengths of runners, and just girth hitch 'em together when needed, and not untie the water knots at all.

[ This Message was edited by: jds100 on 2001-12-28 06:51 ]


rockjock04


Dec 28, 2001, 8:44 AM
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Thanks, That is a good Idea. Now Im Thinking about making different lengths of slings out of my webbing like you said. I got nearly 160 feet, That should do me. And just use my carabiners and quick draws to clip into the anchors up top. I thought I heard somewhere that If you leave Tight knots in ropes and webbing then it potentially weakens it. Is this true?


socialclimber


Dec 28, 2001, 3:09 PM
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Ok, I think I get it now. The most useful anchor I have is a 25mm x 6.5m length of tape with eyes tied into each end using an overhand knot(so, usable length about 6.0m).
It's very versitile, you can girth hitch trees, bollards etc. You can put both eyes together with a screwgate, you can lengthen it's reach by threading an extra sling through one eye and It's long enough to do a three way equalisition if you have to rig your own anchor. Along with a 19mm x 2.5m tied sling and 3 screwgates, thats pretty much my anchor gear. My partiner has a couple of big tied slings and a long open-ended one, all 19mm. Between us, if put end on end, those slings give us about 60' and thats way more than we have ever needed in any anchoring situation.
Keep in mind you can customise the length of any sling, by tying a Figure 8 or overhand knotjust where you want your caribiner. To shorten an open sling, use a Figure 8 on the bight to make an eye. Gotta go, my three year old is using my anchor slings for things I never dreamed of..


graniteboy


Dec 28, 2001, 6:23 PM
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Yes, Yes, Yes.....
The Proper TOOL for removing a WATER KNOT is actually an invention which has been around for tens of thousands of YEARS in one FORM OR ANOTHER. It is called a KNIFE. Instructions; You take the KNIFE in hand, and carefully CUT the sling just next to the WATER KNOT. Cut the other end off, too, so you're left with a KNOTLESS piece of Webbing, and a small Knot. Do this to all your knotted runners. Try not to CUT YOUR FINGER OFF while performing this TASK....it requires some small amount of practice..
Now, proceed to Eat the Knot or Knots....

When you have completed This task, Tie a DOUBLE FISHERMAN'S KNOT in your SLING and use this knot henceforth for al knotted slings. Although it takes a few extra inches of webbing, this knot has the same strength as the water knot (~60%), and is easieer to UnTIE. It will not get you KILLED when it's raining SLEET or FREEZING RAIN on you (because you actually can get it unTIED(!!!!)) , and you hafta get a sling untied and wrapped around that block QUICKLY for the rappel.

Warning: Climbing,mountaineering, and Using KNIVES are Hazardous Activities, which should only be learned in person from a trained professional. Graniteboy(TM) explicitly refuses to accept responsibility for any actions which you, the learning climber, perform, which may lead to bodily or psychic injury or death, unless Graniteboy is employed by you as a Guide for a sum of several hundred dollars per day.... In FACT, Graniteboy refuses to accept any responsibility at all, for anything whatsoever.


rockjock04


Dec 28, 2001, 7:57 PM
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Holy Cow:eek:! You sound like an awesome touring front. I would like to buy 2,000 shares of your finest, cheapest, stock. Thereby, owning precisely 51% of the total stock in which I will have power to... Take over the world! MMMWWWAHAHAHAHHAHA


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