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greatgarbanzo
Jan 1, 2002, 9:41 PM
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hey man!!! there is an article about this on the "articñes" section, click here:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/articles/index.php?ID=31&Page=1
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jds100
Jan 2, 2002, 3:39 PM
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I strongly suggest you get acquainted with termanology, as well as technique. To "chop" a bolt is to, in one way or another, take away a piece of fixed protection, usually because the "chopper" believes the fixed pro doesn't belong there. "Chopping" could include the brutal and supid methodology of taking a crow bar and wrenching the bolt out, damaging the rock in the process. I've also seen, as a recommended method, just beating the hell out of the bolt, and hoping it comes loose, or just smashing the bolt hanger flat.
What you're describing is a GOOD thing, and it is better called "replacing" old bolts. There are good ways to remove and replace old bolts that don't further inflict damage on the rock. I've got a great description of the process in an email from a friend; I'll try to track it down, and post it.
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beyond_gravity
Jan 2, 2002, 6:38 PM
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I think your missing the point if you just beat the hanger flat. Why go though the effort to flaten somthing when it looks just as bad, or worse?
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jds100
Jan 2, 2002, 6:50 PM
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In case you missed the point, smashing the hanger is bad, as is just crow-barring the bolt out of the hole. Of course, you should never just flatten the hanger, but I've seen it happen, by some self-righteous incompetent chopper. The recommendation to bang on the bolt with a hammer is on an idiot guerilla chopper's webpage. No sane climber who cares about the environment and about climbing would advocate such actions.
Now, let's not get another thread going about bolting and anti-bolting.
[ This Message was edited by: jds100 on 2002-01-02 10:52 ]
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kam_ill_eon
Jan 2, 2002, 6:59 PM
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I suggest if it is your route keep it maintained. Also if it is your route you should know how to do this in the first place. If not, it is pretty easy, Just Leave it Alone.
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elcapbuzz
Jan 2, 2002, 10:16 PM
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I agree kamilleon. If you're replacing a bolt, you need to know EXACTLY what you're doing. If someone gets hurt or killed on some jingus bolt that you replaced, it is a direct result of your actions. Hey, everyone has to learn somtime, right. But, it's kind of like asking how to put up a first ascent. When asked that question of first ascents, I overheard a Valley bigwall guru once say, "If you don't know allready, maybe you have no business going up (El Cap) on this thing".
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rockclimberdude
Jan 2, 2002, 10:54 PM
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If you are wanting to take the bolts off the climb I think that you should talk to people that know a little more about that stuff so when i gets done it gets done right and it dosnt look realy crapy.
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beyond_gravity
Jan 3, 2002, 12:12 AM
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I dont think i'm gonna kill anyone by taking out a bolt wrong, I'm asking how to remove old bolts after i put the new ones it so the rock looks better. Geesh. Also, theres a climb with a very high first bolt that is very popular up here. Is it wrong to add a lower first bolt to someone elses climb?
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rrrADAM
Jan 4, 2002, 9:58 PM
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i_rap_off_cam_hooks / steady_sloblin / beyond_gravity (one and the same)...
Watch out dude, people will think you are crazy if you talk to yourself.
rrrADAM
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beyond_gravity
Jan 5, 2002, 3:51 AM
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What if i'm normal and the rest of you are crazy?
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puffpuffpass
Jan 5, 2002, 4:02 AM
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IF YOU DONT KNOW HOW DONT DO IT!!!!!
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kagunkie
Jan 5, 2002, 4:48 AM
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Im sorry to tell it to you this way, but if you need to ask strangers on the internet how to do it then you'r probably not the person to make that decision. No offense intended. If you think theres a dangerous situation then get a more experienced climber to judge it and fix it if need be. DOT'N UNDER ANYCIRCUMSTANCES ALTER ANY FIXED HARDWARE UNLESS YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOUR DOING. You just absolutely prooved that you are not ready to make the decisions necessary to judge for you'r self much less everyone els. If you dont know anyone who is up to the task of judging the gear then just leave it alone and the right person will come along and fix it if it needs to be fixed. If you see after a long time that nothing needs to be done then it probably is'nt necessary. Just go out and have fun climbing and forget it.
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kagunkie
Jan 5, 2002, 4:54 AM
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Your all missing the point. This guy is a beginner theres no good reason to try to explain the how to's and the why's, he's obviously not ready for that info yet. It will only get everyone involved in trouble if he tries to go out and alter fixed hardware. Leave him alone and he'll come home wagging his tail behind him. Get it?
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beyond_gravity
Jan 5, 2002, 5:51 PM
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Dudes, i dont get why everyone is getting all pissed at me for trying to help YOU guys. Theres a climb that like my uncle bolted 20 years ago, it's bolted with thoughs old homemade bolts (AKA Angle Iron with drilled holes) i know what i'm doing placing bolts, and there allready placed. But i wanna get rid of the rusty stuff so it doesnt look so bad! Ugh, never mind, i'll just leave them in!
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kagunkie
Jan 5, 2002, 5:58 PM
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How many identities do you have on the site here?
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compclimber
Jan 5, 2002, 6:28 PM
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Here you go Keith.
- i_rap_off_cam_hooks
- Beyond_gravity
- Steady_sloblin
All the same kid
[ This Message was edited by: compclimber on 2002-01-05 10:29 ]
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beyond_gravity
Jan 5, 2002, 6:29 PM
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I have 3, but i'm sticking with this one now.
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ryanguy
Jan 5, 2002, 7:09 PM
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Jeremy,
I understand your frustration with everyone going off on how if you don't know, don't ask. It doesn't make sense to me either.
I have considerable experience placing bolts and some experience removing them but I am no expert. If the old bolts are the expansion type or any other friction design my best advice to you is try prying the old bolts out with a long crowbar to get good leverage. Avoid damaging the bolt as the head might break off and (to make most everyone including the guru environmentalists happy) avoid damaging the rock. With sweat and patients the bolts will come out. If the bolts snap for whatever reason and can't be pulled out then drive them back deep into the hole. Now fill the hole to mask it.
Besides this method I don't think there is an easier way.
Good luck.
Now lets see if I get any flack.
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beyond_gravity
Jan 6, 2002, 12:06 AM
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Thanks ryanguy! finnaly someone who knows what i'm talking about!
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jds100
Jan 8, 2002, 1:05 AM
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Hey, chief, reading through all the posts again indicates to me that everyone knows what you're talking about. Your own attempt to explain why you asked the question in the first place, however, only adds to my own scepticism about your base of knowledge, when you mention "angle iron with drilled holes"; ...sounds a lot more like fixed pitons than bolts.
If you're prying bolts from the rock, no matter what kind they are, then you need to do more research to learn how to do it right. You can start right here on this site, with the article linked earlier.
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beyond_gravity
Jan 8, 2002, 4:52 AM
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hey JDS, The Angle Iron with drilled holes is the Hanger part. I've acculey allready found out how unsafe they were when I could remove them with a few funks.
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rrrADAM
Jan 8, 2002, 10:19 AM
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NEVER, EVER, EVER,...
hit a bolt with anything that will generate sharp shocks. i.e hammer, funkness device, even biners.
Please read "An Expert Opinion On Bolts...". This will explain why.
People are coming down on you BG, cause your posts, Stuck Cam, this one, and a couple more sound like your posting fictional stuff brutha. You posted about the Stuck Cam you "ripped the runner, trigger, and even the stem off", but you've also stated that you've NEVER Trad climbed before. See what I mean ??? Sounds a little funny.
Do you have a cousin named Fawn ???
rrrADAM
p.s. I'm not coming down on you here. I just want to let you in on where people are coming from.
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jds100
Jan 9, 2002, 1:02 AM
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Jeremy, hopefully you're catching on to how folks respond to your trying to stir it up unnecessarily around this site. I hope you and the other young posers will finally just participate more honestly and responsibly.
As to the angle iron hangers: yeah, I agree, they're not safe and dependable for protection on a climb. I encourage you to peruse the article cited previously, and check out the safe climbing website (help me, folks, I can't remember what it is). Again, prying the bolt out is not the best way to do it. Removing and/or replacing old bolts properly is a time consuming, labor-intensive project, without the "glory" that might come with putting up a new route, but it is personally, quietly gratifying, and much appreciated by climbers who know about it.
But, just like botching a bolting project, a bad job of it will leave you with a reputation of incompetence among fellow climbers. Take your time; read up on how to do it right; print it out or copy it if you need to take it with you.
Good luck.
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rrrADAM
Jan 9, 2002, 1:12 AM
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There's a link to the ASCA in the above mentioned link I provided.
rrrADAM
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