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beerandblood
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Jul 6, 2001, 7:40 PM
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BoltWars
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jsm280


Jul 9, 2001, 1:25 PM
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I just replied this to another post and it never hurts to say it again. with additions.

The question is should you bolt at all???

Is there place for gear?
if so don't bolt.

Can you top rope it?
Then think twice about bolting. maybe just add shunts or rings at the top to make it faster and easier to set the top rope.

Can you do neither of the above?
where are you repelling from?


and adding to that...
bouldering?????
who needs to be tied in to boulder? that is why it's bouldering.
If you need practice clipping as seen on bolted routes.... go to the gym and clip away.

First ascent... people need to check with the oldtimers before they even think of a route as the first ascent. Many places off the beaten path have still been climbed, they just are not active because 90% of new climbers want the parking lot to be at the bottom of the climb and these guys seldome hike more than a few hundred yards to reach a climb.



.


kriso9tails


Jul 14, 2001, 10:52 PM
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Trad is more than often not viable on harder rowts and sometimes top rope is not eco-friendly. Some of the local climbs have top rope bans because the trees are not firmly rooted enough and/ or cannot support the wear and tear of top rop anchors. Of course you can place bolts specifically for the purpose of top rope anchors.

Bolts should be a last resort unless an area has been spcifically designated for bolted routes.

I ain't never seen a bolted boulder problem. Whatever sort of bolt happy freak does that deserves a bolt in the head (provided that they haven't bolted their skull already).

[ This Message was edited by: kriso9tails on 2001-07-14 23:01 ]


congo


Aug 12, 2001, 7:16 AM
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jsm, dont forget that trad climbing cost heaps of money for equipment, and some people just cant afford it. all you need for bolted climbs is a couple of draws and a rope, as opposed to $200000 worth of cams.
..ok, maybe thats a little too much but you know what i mean.


tankshild


Aug 15, 2001, 9:43 PM
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harold
In rock canyon there is a bolder called boulder truble its on the other side of pa's mother in dry river bed. it has two bolts at the top its only 8-10 feet high but very chalanging, two maby three ways to the top

[ This Message was edited by: tankshild on 2001-08-15 21:43 ]


kam_ill_eon


Dec 1, 2001, 11:17 AM
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If you think there are too many bolts just skip some of them that should fix the problem!


jds100


Dec 1, 2001, 3:04 PM
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Hopefully an admin will direct you with links to the forums where this subject has been discussed a lot. Comments about cost of trad gear as an excuse for bolting trad lines, and skipping bolts if the climber doesn't want to clip them, are as well-worn (worn out) as they are lame of thought. Try making those suggestions to experienced climbers, and I mean climbers with REAL experience, not just 2 years on TR and in a gym and clipping up somebody else's moderate sport climbs, and see if you can still walk away with a full set of teeth.

My suggestion (don't mean to be mean, but my ire gets up as my patience goes thin, reading these 'original' thoughts): read the many forums on this website about bolts and chopping, and adding bolts to trad lines, etc., and learn. Read some of the great history-of-climbing books out there, and biographies of great climbers. Then, put a little more -no, a lot more- thought into this issue before you think you've really got an opinion.

[ This Message was edited by: jds100 on 2001-12-01 15:06 ]


metoliusmunchkin


Dec 5, 2001, 2:23 PM
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Yes, so it seems that bolts are appearing in many places where they are not welcome, including some long boulder problems and classic trad routes. If one who could not climb a trad route, because of the strenuous placement of the gear, and did not like that type of climbing (traditional) although loved the route, and bolted it, would get a swift kick in the @$$ by many climbers, inluding myself. If is simply not right, for one to alter a route in any appropriate way whatsoever (this would include inappropriate bolting, graffiti upon the rock face, the enlarging of a crimp using the chipping methods etc). This would fall upon the subject of respecting the rock (as mentioned before, although elaboration is always welcomed ).

It was brought to my attention the other day (I believe it was fiend) who stated that the well known sport route The Fly a 20 foot 5.14d, was infact once a boulder problem. The first thing that comes to mind (my mind in particular - wether this be true or not) is a really strong sport climber, who couldn't knack it as a boulder problem, and plopped two bolts on the route. Now, this was to the benefit of many people, as the route has now been scent many times over. Although the question remains, should this bolting have been done in the first place?

To me, inappropriate bolting (or other inappropriate rock behavior such as 'chopping a hold' to enlarge it, or a fabricated route, completely chopped) is a form of a cheat, or a sign of weakness from the climber who has committed this act. One who cannot perform the routes demands at its particular status (in this example, the status would be trad) and changes such a status to create an advantage (in this case, bolting the route, so it becomes now a sport route) is completely unfair, and is a sign of weakness and cowardice. If one shows to be such a climber as to choose not climb certain routes (such as trad, and be intelligent enough as to not attempt the route), let him. Although, if one shoes to be such a climber as to choose not to climb certain routes, although changes them to his/her liking, to better suit him, for the sake of scending the route, I would say this person is a coward.

Bolt chopping is alright, as long as it is done appropriately, or done through the same person who has placed the bolts there firstly.

-Pat-


passthepitonspete


Dec 5, 2001, 6:34 PM
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I am Dr. Pee'd On,

And I agree with Metolius Man.

My beliefs on bolting can be found here and here. I do not mince words.

If you are going to climb my routes, you may need to grow a longer neck. There are no bolts.

Bolts on a twenty-foot boulder problem?



Spoken with Monty Python Welshman Sketch accent:

"Why, when I was a lad, we used to peel off the top of twenty-foot-high boulder problems every morning for breakfast. We used to dreeeeeeeeam of crash pads!"

Note: While some purists might consider crash pads to be cheating, I and my ankles believe they are a good idea.

Cheers,

Dr. Pee'd On


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