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512
Jan 6, 2002, 8:02 AM
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Registered: Oct 10, 2001
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I was at work one day and had to climb to the top of our climbing wall to fix an autobelay device that was stuck dangling down about four feet and smackin kids on the head. So a friend of mine, who is an eagle scout like myself, offered to belay me. I asked him if he was in to climbing about two weeks earlier and he said he was and he even had the climbing merit badge. He stayed after work sometimes and was pretty on the wall, so I auomatically assumed that he was good on the belay end as well. This was proly the biggest mistake of my so called "climbing career" thus far. i made it the top and had it fixed in no time. When it came tim eto come down I yelled "take" and he said he had me and to go ahead and let go, so I did. Little did I know that he opened up the GRI-GRI to its max and sent me to the floor with absolutly no tension on the rope. I took about a 25-30 ft. uninterupted fall. I was pretty pissed and pretty hurt. I landed on my side and could barely feel my arm. Should I have done something else to ensure that he knew what he was doing? What could I have done?
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hangerlessbolt
Jan 6, 2002, 10:21 AM
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Registered: Dec 2, 2001
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Everyone that I've climbed with over the past several years, I've met on the internet. Needless to say, it's important to well know the skills of your new partner(s). We always start out with the questions of; what level do you climb? how long? where? etc. When we meet at the crag, I ask them to show me how they prefer to belay...how they set up their anchors...how they tie in to the belay, etc. And I do the same for them. This may take a few minutes but can be done while stretching, flaking out the rope, sorting gear...whatever. But it has to be done...my life is at stake. If I don't like what I see, I suggest a different way or inquire as to their logic. If I don't feel comfortable...I don't climb...that's it. I had an experience very similar to yours...at a climbing gym...got dropped while being lowered. The rope got kinked and the belayer let go with their brake hand to fix it and down I came. Luckily for me, the only damages were a hurt pride and a fear of inadequate belayers.
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pianomahnn
Jan 6, 2002, 4:12 PM
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Registered: Feb 17, 2001
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The fact that the tool was threaded correctly and he STILL dropped you leads me to believe he is a huge moron and shouldn't be let in the gym again. Also, the gym or guide or whoever gave the climbing merit badge should be seriously checked out for just what the hell they're doing. Sorry to hear you fell.
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nikegirl
Jan 6, 2002, 4:52 PM
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Registered: Sep 2, 2001
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Duuuuudddeee!! I literaly gasped at your situation... I was asked my first week at the gym, by a girl I didn't know, if I wanted to belay for her on the wall. I remember, the feeling I had...pit-of the-stomach drop. I was embarassed, that I was not experienced...for ONE. Then told her, I was newer...and saw her reaction: ...she looked like she wanted to back peddle, but, didn't want to HURT my feelings. I knew not to do so...I knew I wanted more experience, myself. I was scared to death of doing it WRONG. I told her NO, I wasn't ready, thanks for asking me... I had my belay certificate. I took the class. I wasn't READY. I wanted to. But, couldn't take her up, not that she would have RISKED her life, anyway. My point. I let my ego along with my TRUE ability, answer for me. I was too scared. I wasn't sure of my skills. I told her so. I wanted to crawl under a rock(no pun intended). But, I knew the reprocussions, and how it could possibly end up. Not worth the risk. And VERY much worth the self-respect, I felt for myself, for being honist. I like hangerless's answer...I always have to remember...it's your life...you need to ask questions... and be honist with your abilities....PLEASE!!!! my two cents...with a little history. T
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climbchick
Jan 6, 2002, 5:13 PM
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Registered: Dec 29, 2001
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Since it's hard to find people to climb with around here, I'm constantly teaching new people how to belay so that I can get off the bouldering wall. I spend quite a long time showing them how it works and giving them the lecture and I get quite dramatic about what would happen if they messed up because I want them to take it very seriously. I usually have them climb first while I belay them, then I get on the wall myself and do a couple of planned falls so they can see what it feels like. Then finally I do a couple of unplanned falls (not very high). Usually I find this part of it quite nerve-wracking. When I think they've got it, I'll go ahead and climb normally, but I look down at them a lot to make sure they're paying attention and if I'm about to do something difficult I'll stop and say Watch Me while making eye contact with them and most of the time I'll tell them to go ahead and lock off if I think there's any chance I'm going to fall. The first time I belayed, I was ten times more scared that I ever have been climbing. It's one thing to risk your own life, but the whole thing takes on an entirely new dimension when you've got someone else's life in your hands. I was totally freaked out by the people who stand there belaying and looking all around the room at other people, carrying on conversations etc . . . if I'm belaying, I've got my whole concentration focused on the climber and I don't take my eyes off for a second, even if it's just some easy route at the gym. I also insist on having a ground anchor, though a lot of people don't seem to think it's necessary. I'd rather have people think I'm too fussy than take any unnecessary risks whatsoever.
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jumaringjeff
Jan 6, 2002, 5:24 PM
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Registered: Nov 30, 2001
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Usually when I'm climbing with a new belayer, I'll tell them I'm going to fall after the first couple moves (once I'm high enough so the rope stretch won't cause me to deck but low enough so if the belayer messes up, it won't 'mess' me up). After the fall I have them lower me and by that point I have a pretty good idea. Thusfar I've never had a bad experience with a belayer (knock on wood). Of course, I never do this on an onsite attempt!! Happy jumaring, jj
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bumblesbounce
Jan 6, 2002, 5:55 PM
Post #7 of 14
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Registered: Dec 1, 2001
Posts: 472
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Okay... don;t be scaring little ones that never been climbing... but hope you feel betta! Take it easy! Now, I'm definetly going to pick somebody I REALLY TRUST, and not any old good friend...
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sparker
Jan 6, 2002, 11:09 PM
Post #8 of 14
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Registered: Oct 29, 2001
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In gyms I will accept or give a belay (top rope or lead) to just about anybody. I trust the instructors at the local gym to train people properly. Outside is a different story. I will not take a lead belay from a stranger. I like to watch someone belay a few times before I will let them belay me. I've seen too many people let go of the rope with their brake hand to accept a belay from strangers. I agree with Pianomahnn, find out who taught the guy who dropped you how to belay and give both people a lesson on how to belay.
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512
Jan 7, 2002, 8:15 AM
Post #9 of 14
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Registered: Oct 10, 2001
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I really thought I could trust him! I talked to his friends who climbed with him and they are still alive. But now that I think of it, I am too, so how could I have been completly sure? I think I just assumed too quickly in the moment i had to make the decision? Do ya'll do that sometimes?
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toobigtoclimb
Jan 7, 2002, 6:45 PM
Post #10 of 14
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Registered: Dec 14, 2001
Posts: 426
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The interesting thing is that climbers readily share ropes, protection, top rope set-ups, etc. You don't know if someone has been carrying their rope in the back of their truck with gas cans or using their rope to hold up a bridge in their backyard. I guess with experience you know how to evaluate someone's experience quickly. [ This Message was edited by: toobigtoclimb on 2002-01-07 10:47 ]
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jds100
Jan 8, 2002, 12:38 AM
Post #11 of 14
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Registered: Aug 5, 2001
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Take a couple of extra minutes to visually check the setup, the harness, and everything else, and test the belay biner to make sure it's locked. If you have any doubts, your decision must be made based on the fact that you will pay the price for not wanting to hurt someone else's ego, and/or for being in a hurry. There's no reason to assume that someone else's (a third party) certification, in the form of a merit badge or belay certification or anything else, is automatically a stamp of competence. Take the few minutes to check the belayer, and then check the technique by taking a short "practice" fall from a safe height. And, if you're going to trust a Gri Gri, at least give the rope a yank (from the climber's end) to make sure it's locking up.
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bumblesbounce
Jan 8, 2002, 11:32 AM
Post #12 of 14
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Registered: Dec 1, 2001
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I've trusted a couple with belaying me: 1. A camp director that is a rockclimber... I trusted her. And she kept you TIGHT! 2. A new belayer that was taught how to belay by number 1... I didn't trust her as much, she kept me a little looser then I would want. 3. A novice belayer, again thought by number 1... I don't trust her in the first place, and she let's you drop about a foot! I'm not kidding! 4. A new belayer that was taught how to belay bu numer 1... I didn't even know who she was and I didn't trust. 5. A begineer belayer, again taught by number 1... was a little on the loose side, but not that bad. 6. An experinced belayer at a high ropes course... I trusted her with my life, along with number 1. Out of 6 belayers I only trust 2 with my life, now that really scares me. So choose your parenter wisely. And be there at the lesson when they are learning to watch them. Same thing with you.
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squeeks
Jan 9, 2002, 3:14 AM
Post #13 of 14
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Registered: Aug 21, 2001
Posts: 193
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first of all i just want to say i think the gri gri is the biggest piece of s--- anyways. i will never use one. second, what the hell kind of gym was this? every gym i have been in, if its your first time, they run you through a test to see if you meet their standards on tying in and belaying. if you dont pass, you dont climb. if you do then they keep your paperwork on file and you climb freely. third, question him and make sure he knows what the hell he is doing. i bet he felt like a dipshit. i am an eagle scout too and yeah they teach the basics pretty good but i really dont think the person that taught him did a very good job at it.
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512
Jan 9, 2002, 3:30 AM
Post #14 of 14
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Registered: Oct 10, 2001
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It wasnt a gym. It was a Sun & Ski Sports with a 4 route indoor wall. It was my job to belay little kids. He was just a coworker whom I happed to see climbing our hardest routes after work, so.....I assumed.
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