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"Wrong end" of a quickdraw??
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reno


Jan 10, 2002, 10:50 AM
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"Wrong end" of a quickdraw??
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Stupid question, but one I can't find a solid answer to, so I turn to y'all...

IF you are sport climbing, and IF you use qucikdraws that have one straight gate and one bent gate, WHAT is the likelihood of failure/accidental fall if you inadvertently clipped the bent gate to the bolt, and the rope to the straight gate? Assume 1) your draw is new, and 2) you can not remove and re-clip.

Forgive my ignorance. I'm new.

Best,

JRB


jt512


Jan 10, 2002, 11:52 AM
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"Wrong end" of a quickdraw?? [In reply to]
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"WHAT is the likelihood of failure/accidental fall if you inadvertently clipped the bent gate to the bolt, and the rope to the straight gate?"

The risk is that in a fall from above the bolt, the bent gate can catch on the bolt and unclip itself. I would say that the absolute likelihood of this happening is low, but certainly not negligible. I have occasionally accidentally clipped the wrong end of a draw into a crux bolt (caused by having racked the draw wrong), and have considered it safe enough to climb above, as opposed to taking and re-clipping the bolt. In contrast, I never climb above a bolt that I've backclipped.

[ This Message was edited by: jt512 on 2002-01-14 14:42 ]


wigglestick


Jan 10, 2002, 11:53 AM
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"Wrong end" of a quickdraw?? [In reply to]
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Putting a bent gate on the bolt end of a quickdraw will increase the likelihood that it can become unclipped from the bolt. There would be an even higher probability if you had "fixed" the bent gate in the quickdraw which would force the bent gate to rotate with the to and fro motion of the sling.
http://www.putzl.com/~klew/unclip.shtml

To answer your question. I don't think you were in imminent danger by doing this once on accident but don't make a habit of it. Besides you should never be in a situation where a single piece of pro, even a bolt, is keeping you from a dirt nap. If it had come unclipped, what would have happened? Hopefully the next bolt down would have caught you. That is my 0.02. I am sure others will chime in with their input.


jt512


Jan 14, 2002, 2:58 PM
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"Wrong end" of a quickdraw?? [In reply to]
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"I believe that you are now either slightly safer or just as safe as if you had put the draw through the other, "proper" way."

I totally disagree. See below.

"Here's why: one end of your draw has a bent gate solely to make it easier for you to clip. However, bent draws can, under unusual circumstances, be subject to whiplash and unclip themselves. Bent gates are more subject to this than straight gates."

This is not true. Whiplash is a function mainly of the mass of the gate, not its shape. A bentgate and a straight gate biner are equally subject to whiplash.

"(This is why back clipping can be very dangerous ...)."

No, the reason that backclipping is dangerous has nothing to do with gate whiplash. Backclipping is dangerous because when the leader climbs above the bolt, the rope comes from behind the carabiner, and runs over the gate. In a fall, the rope can easily loop around the gate and unclip.

"It is also part of the appeal of wire gates. Some people (such as myself) think they are as easy to clip as bent gates, but (according to gear companies) they are less subject to whiplash and unclipping themselves. They are also often lighter."

They are less prone to whiplash because they are lighter; that is, because the gate has less mass.

"While there is probably a slightly higher chance of a bent gate also unclipping itself from the bolt, that should be nullified by having the straight gate on the rope end. I believe the rope end is the more likely spot for a problem to occur since it has direct contact with the rope."

The rope will not unclip from a bent gate biner if the gate is oriented away from the direction of the climb -- at least, it won't unclip because of its shape.

"Once you have made the clip, I see no reason to change it. I say get out of there and finish the climb."

Generally, I would agree with this, except that I would not climb above a backclipped draw.


[ This Message was edited by: jt512 on 2002-01-14 15:02 ]


socialclimber


Jan 20, 2002, 11:15 PM
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"Wrong end" of a quickdraw?? [In reply to]
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I was totally unaware of the above reasons for clipping straight gates to bolts. The only reasons I was ever aware of was that over time or extreme circumstances the carabiner that contacts the bolt may devlope mark or burrs. If at some later time the 'draw is clipped upside down, the marks/burrs could damage the rope. The same reason was applied to why you should always use the same locking carabiner with your belay device.


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