|
enigma
Jun 13, 2003, 10:27 PM
Post #1 of 119
(10491 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2279
|
---Obviously there's quite a bit more latitude when your emotionally involved with someone, he's going to give a little more .
He knows if he doesn't then he might be sleeping alone later, and somehow you've paid your "dues". :shock:
However when you're female climber,and Just climbing with a male partner its a whole different ballgame. Does he treat you like another guy???Or how??? :roll:
Sometimes there's a sexual tension, sometimes he's confused, sometimes he's waiting,hoping and you're thinking WTF is going on??? :roll:( Then there are male climbers who treat you just like another climber.) too.I think :?
Know What I Mean???? Thoughts????
BTW- Men Your Thoughts Too??? help us see your side. :!:
|
|
|
|
|
iamthewallress
Jun 13, 2003, 11:38 PM
Post #2 of 119
(10491 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 2, 2003
Posts: 2463
|
The lamest thing that has ever happened to me climbing-wise involved me thinking that I was become great friends and developing a solid climbing partnership with a guy who went on to totally blow me off after he helped lug my arse up my first wall. When I asked him what happened point blank, he said, "Well, once I realized that you weren't interested in me as someone to date, I realized I had to move on. You climb hard enough to be my climbing girlfriend, but not hard enough to be a climbing partner."
Having a boyfriend that my male partners know all but elimiates that vibe now. Still, few totally treat me like "one of the guys." That said, I feel like I have partners that don't treat me like "one of the guys" but still give me my full due (and often more) with respect to what they expect of me as a partner.
|
|
|
|
|
climbingbetty22
Jun 14, 2003, 1:31 AM
Post #3 of 119
(10491 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 29, 2002
Posts: 1538
|
Well since I've never dated a climbing partner...I think I know a bit about this situation. My biggest problem so far has been male partners who develop an interest in me that I don't return. Sometimes it works itself out and they just come to understand it ain't gonna happen and that I'm just interested in climbing, not dating them. But sometimes it goes terribly arye as in Wallress's case. I had one guy just stop climbing with me and stop talking to me when he finally figured out I wasn't going to sleep with him. It hurts, but I just chalk it up to their immaturity and move on. That's also why I really relish climbing with other chicks. I know some folks think there's no difference in climbing with men vs. climbing with women. But for me, when I'm climbing with another femme, it's just about the climbing. There's no underlying sexual tension, not even the thought of it. Just two chicks, a rope and some rock.
|
|
|
|
|
moabbeth
Jun 14, 2003, 5:36 AM
Post #4 of 119
(10491 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 22, 2002
Posts: 1786
|
The majority of my partners are guys. And I tend to get treated like one of the guys. But that's okay, they don't do anything offensive, they just know they can be themselves and scratch or belch or whatever around me and it won't faze me :D . It's not so much guy-girl but climber-climber with my guy partners. However, like wallress it's a lot better now that I have a climbing boyfriend who I totally adore that knows or knows of most of my partners so that totally eliminates my "availability" factor. Not like there really was in the first place, but it's 100 pct clear now.
|
|
|
|
|
deleted
Deleted
Jun 14, 2003, 5:40 AM
Post #5 of 119
(10489 views)
Shortcut
Registered:
Posts:
|
a man's perspective:
barring the instance of a man (or woman) who is in it solely as a mechanism by which to get laid, the intensity of climbing is such that from time to time it can lead to intimacy between partners. this intimacy can come in varying degrees.
sometimes it is simply the warm glow that comes from succeeding on a challenging route with someone whom you've come to know, appreciate, and quite literally trust with your life. sometimes, through the process of exposure and familiarity, that warm feeling blossoms into something else. perhaps despite the fact that one or both partners are in other relationships.
i read recently that high levels of epinephrine (adrenaline) have been linked to a heightened sexual arousal; that most any activity that raises adrenaline levels -- be it a horror movie, a scary climb, or a heated argument with a mate -- can result in being sexually aroused. i guess this is where we got the idea for "make-up" sex.
my good friend, bill griggers (a co-founder of "trango"), tells the story of being stuck in a life/death situation for a few days with his climbing partner. at one point he told his partner, "man, i sure wish you were a GIRL!" to which his partner replied, "yeah, i wish i were a girl TOO!"
there's an old addage that "what goes ON the wall, STAYS on the wall". this means, perhaps, that any sexual transgressions occurring during the climb are as a result of the aforementioned adrenaline-induced intimacy, and that they are to be held in sacred secrecy. has this ever happened to me? in all honesty ... yes.
certainly some people will take this and run with it, using it as license to whore around on the rock -- there's a few in every crowd.
bill also has an observation based theory that most serious climbers have a history of dysfunctional relationships. he attributes this to the intense, forced intimacy a climbing relationship provides. i must say i wholeheartedly agree.
be careful though. lest you have your very soul ripped out and dashed upon the cold talus below. it's hard to climb without a soul.
and, yes, i speak from experience ...
|
|
|
|
|
missedyno
Jun 15, 2003, 5:16 PM
Post #6 of 119
(10491 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2001
Posts: 4465
|
mtngeo ... yep... leaves me with nothing to say except that i completely agree with what you said
it's a long post, and it's worth reading every word.
:)
|
|
|
|
|
calamity_chk
Jun 16, 2003, 4:10 PM
Post #7 of 119
(10491 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 23, 2002
Posts: 7994
|
wow, geo -- well said.
|
|
|
|
|
mwbtle
Jun 16, 2003, 4:25 PM
Post #8 of 119
(10491 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 22, 2002
Posts: 5891
|
Indeed...I third that geo's response rocked.
I date my main partner though, so I don't have to worry too much. And most of the rest of my partners are girls. Its very weird to me to have another guy belay me, just because I'm used to my boyfriend being the one on the other end of my rope. Probably has a lot to do with what mtngeo posted, why its so weird for me.
|
|
|
|
|
atg200
Jun 16, 2003, 11:08 PM
Post #9 of 119
(10491 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 27, 2001
Posts: 4317
|
i've climbed with quite a few women over the years, and only in one case was i actually interested in anything more than being a friend. worked out well since we are now dating, but i apparently hid those feelings so well that she was nervous approaching me about dating. i tend to have exactly the opposite experience as what geo describes - whenever i am doing a big or intimidating climb i shut those feelings out completely and concentrate on the business at hand, often to the dismay of my gf.
there isn't a stock answer for this though. every guy and every girl is different. i would sooner break a hold 30 feet above a bad rp then to try to pick up a girl i wasn't relatively sure was interested in me for fear of offending her. other guys couldn't care less. and you never know which way the girl will react to that.
|
|
|
|
|
dirtineye
Jun 17, 2003, 5:29 PM
Post #10 of 119
(10491 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2003
Posts: 5590
|
As a guy who'd like to find a dateable climber girl, I'm still going to choose partners based on how much fun we have together. (uh, is sex still fun? I forget)
The idea that someone is not good enough to climb with me is alien to my way of thinking. I'd rather climb with someone I have a good time with, even if I have to drag them up every climb. Even if they are a hot chick that I'll never sleep with. The partners I cut loose are the ones that piss me off or are unsafe, or we just don't get along well. This goes for male or female.
LOL, there is this one girl I would like to date who doesn't want a relationship, but she keeps offering to bring along a single friend who does want to date!! Now that is a good friendship! She is a decent climber and fun to be around, and an interesting person, so I'd be an idiot to not climb with her. Besides, she is a natural comedienne. You should have seen this argument she had with a parking attendant.
ONe big advantage of climbing with a female I noticed is that if the climbing is rained out, a girl will be willing to do something else, even if she is not dating you, whereas guys just want to forget it and go back home, even if it is a 2 hour drive.
I really don't want to date a non-climber, but male female relationships are so hard anyway, I wonder if climbing with your love coudl be a bad idea haha. Makeup sex in a hospital bed does not sound like fun.
I agree with atg200, that when the climbing gets serious, thoughts of male-female issues just are non-existent, with the climbing taking precedence.
I am starting to think that women are a lot more messed up about this stuff than men are. All you have to do is say, "I'd like to climb with you but I'm not looking for anything romantic." If that doesn't do the trick then walk away. But then most women do not put their cards on the table.
|
|
|
|
|
maculated
Jun 17, 2003, 6:24 PM
Post #11 of 119
(10491 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 23, 2001
Posts: 6179
|
Dirtineye, poignant post. Sums it all up very nicely on my end.
|
|
|
|
|
dirtineye
Jun 18, 2003, 7:16 AM
Post #12 of 119
(10491 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2003
Posts: 5590
|
Mac, (can I call you mac?) you must have missed the sad pathetic part LOL, but if you read between the lines, it says, " I can't get a date!".
Hey I looked at your pics, you look strong. I'm looking for a girl who can carry 90 pounds of gear, drag me up anything I can't climb under my own power, and has a good sense of humor. Relationship optional. Too bad you live thousands of miles away, but then you are safe that way hahahahaha.
Oh yeah, any potential climbing datees MUST be half my age, so I can be sure you are not a bitter old crotchety mountain woman with intimacy issues. Well really it's just that most women that climb are half my age LOL. well, REALLY it's just that, around a younger woman, I don't seem so immature. when it gets down to age 8, I seem positively suave and debonaire.
|
|
|
|
|
danielb
Jun 18, 2003, 8:22 AM
Post #13 of 119
(10491 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 30, 2002
Posts: 232
|
In reply to: However when you're female climber,and Just climbing with a male partner its a whole different ballgame. Does he treat you like another guy???Or how??? :roll: Sometimes there's a sexual tension, sometimes he's confused, sometimes he's waiting,hoping and you're thinking WTF is going on??? :roll:( Then there are male climbers who treat you just like another climber.) too.I think :?
It depends, if you've told him that you just want to be friends and climbing partners but if you've not then what is he ment to think? He'll just try to figure out what you want by the way you act. And most guys arn't too good at that...
|
|
|
|
|
granite_grrl
Jun 18, 2003, 11:58 AM
Post #14 of 119
(10491 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 15084
|
In reply to: I am starting to think that women are a lot more messed up about this stuff than men are. All you have to do is say, "I'd like to climb with you but I'm not looking for anything romantic." If that doesn't do the trick then walk away. But then most women do not put their cards on the table.
Why should we have to annouce ourselves like that though?? Why should we have to put these cards on the table? I'm quite certain that no woman is ever expecting a new male partner to say that to them.
|
|
|
|
|
katydid
Jun 18, 2003, 1:17 PM
Post #15 of 119
(10491 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 13, 2002
Posts: 3212
|
Most of my partners have been guys, and I've never had one hit on me. (Of course, I was married up until a couple of months ago, so I'm sure that had something to do with it....) But even if the guys I was climbing with didn't know my marital status, we just went out and climbed. There wasn't anything involved other than climbing and having a good time.
Maybe it's because I'm "older" (in my 30s), maybe it's because I've been lucky, but the only guy climber I've had hit on me was one who hits on every female climber with a pulse, so I didn't feel too special. And in that case, most of the guy climbers I was around were ready to pound him into jello should he try anything untoward after I told him to knock it off.
k.
|
|
|
|
|
maculated
Jun 18, 2003, 3:56 PM
Post #16 of 119
(10491 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 23, 2001
Posts: 6179
|
Yo Dirt,
Mac's okay with me. So basically you want me to haul your crap for you? Yeah, I'll totally do that for you any time you want. And I cook dinner for four every night, eight courses. And I love dating much older men, they die that much faster.
Juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust kidding.
Anyway, I don't really see the harm in guys hitting on you when climbing. It's pretty much the only venue I have to meet guys since my life is more or less isolationist in every other way. If they don't get the hint, that is uncool though. I am not the kind to outright say, "I do not want to date you."
My thought? If a guy hits on you, then take it as a damn compliment! There are a lot of ladies out there who can say that it doesn't often happen. I hate when chicks complain about attention. Be it welcome or not, it still means you've 'got it' and that's a nice thing.
|
|
|
|
|
mewalrus
Jun 19, 2003, 2:32 AM
Post #17 of 119
(10491 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 11, 2003
Posts: 132
|
In reply to: The lamest thing that has ever happened to me climbing-wise involved me thinking that I was become great friends and developing a solid climbing partnership with a guy who went on to totally blow me off after he helped lug my arse up my first wall. When I asked him what happened point blank, he said, "Well, once I realized that you weren't interested in me as someone to date, I realized I had to move on. You climb hard enough to be my climbing girlfriend, but not hard enough to be a climbing partner."
I can totally understand what he is saying in the first part, if your really interested in someone then its rather painful to hang out with them if you know they don't have reciprocal feelings. The part about climbing hard was stupid, either he's an asshole or its possible he was feeling hurt and rejected and just wanted to make you feel the same way. Not that its ok, but its understandable.
In reply to: i would sooner break a hold 30 feet above a bad rp then to try to pick up a girl i wasn't relatively sure was interested in me for fear of offending her. other guys couldn't care less.
ditto :oops:
In reply to: BTW- Men Your Thoughts Too??? help us see your side.
My thoughts. Hmmm, I would love to date a cool chick, who also climbs. That sort of sums it up. :D
|
|
|
|
|
danielb
Jun 19, 2003, 9:37 AM
Post #18 of 119
(10491 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 30, 2002
Posts: 232
|
In reply to: It depends, if you've told him that you just want to be friends and climbing partners but if you've not then what is he ment to think? He'll just try to figure out what you want by the way you act. And most guys arn't too good at that...
Been thinking about this a bit more, and I think I was a bit harsh on the ladies. I think its really something that should be covered at the start when you start climbing with the opposite sex just to prevent confussion and trouble later on...
|
|
|
|
|
mwbtle
Jun 19, 2003, 1:18 PM
Post #19 of 119
(10491 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 22, 2002
Posts: 5891
|
In reply to: My thought? If a guy hits on you, then take it as a damn compliment! There are a lot of ladies out there who can say that it doesn't often happen. I hate when chicks complain about attention. Be it welcome or not, it still means you've 'got it' and that's a nice thing.
Yeah, so I used to have this same mindset. But...then there was this guy who started kind of stalking me because I didn't put a big stop sign in front of him from the get go. And it was scary, because even once I did say "hold on, I'm not comfortable with this" he just stopped talking to me, but would still do sketchy stalker things.
So now, I complain about attention, which I don't get much of anyway because I'm not really a "hey look at me" kind of girl...I have to really know a guy now before I trust him enough to think about even flirting with him. The guy I'm with now I've known for 7 years...only dated for 2 though...yeah, its that bad.
Amazing how one bad experience can ruin one's perception of a whole group of people.
|
|
|
|
|
sroehlk
Jun 19, 2003, 3:22 PM
Post #20 of 119
(10491 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 15, 2002
Posts: 484
|
In reply to: In reply to: It depends, if you've told him that you just want to be friends and climbing partners but if you've not then what is he ment to think? He'll just try to figure out what you want by the way you act. And most guys arn't too good at that... Been thinking about this a bit more, and I think I was a bit harsh on the ladies. I think its really something that should be covered at the start when you start climbing with the opposite sex just to prevent confussion and trouble later on...
I think it would be weird and awkward to tell a guy when I start climbing with him that I only want to be friends. I think it would look like I was trying to tell him "hey I know you want me, but it's not gonna happen." I'd rather just let things progress naturally and deal with it if the situation of "friendship or is it more" ever came up. But I'm pretty non-confrontational as it is, which is sometimes a problem. As for getting hit on - most of the time it's kind of fun/funny depending on how you look at it. :D
|
|
|
|
|
on_sight_man
Jun 19, 2003, 4:00 PM
Post #21 of 119
(10491 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 11, 2002
Posts: 628
|
In reply to: In reply to: he said, "Well, once I realized that you weren't interested in me as someone to date, I realized I had to move on. You climb hard enough to be my climbing girlfriend, but not hard enough to be a climbing partner." The part about climbing hard was stupid, either he's an asshole or its possible he was feeling hurt and rejected and just wanted to make you feel the same way. Not that its ok, but its understandable.
I disagree. I think he was just being brutally (maybe a bit too brutally) honest. You said he hauled you up a wall. Have you ever done that for someone else? Did you particularly enjoy it? A climbing partner needs to carry their weight at whatever level is being climbed by the pair (or at least close).
When you have a relationship based on mutual attraction, hopefully you bring equal amounts of that attraction (or close). When you do things other than making hot monkey love, it's in the context of the larger relationship. This is true of friends as well. You may haul a friend up a climb, but it's a little bit like helping someone move. It can be MADE fun, but it's not the same as hanging out and having beers. If the relationship is to remain based solely on climbing, then you need to bring something to the table and he was simply saying you don't bring enough.
|
|
|
|
|
deleted
Deleted
Jun 19, 2003, 5:32 PM
Post #22 of 119
(10489 views)
Shortcut
Registered:
Posts:
|
*in homer simpson voice*
mmmmmmmmm ... hot monkey love! you mean the kind like where you're grabbing for stuff from the fruit basket, a jar of chocolate sauce and the cayenne pepper?
yeah ... i remember that.
|
|
|
|
|
on_sight_man
Jun 19, 2003, 5:49 PM
Post #23 of 119
(10491 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 11, 2002
Posts: 628
|
In reply to: In reply to: I am starting to think that women are a lot more messed up about this stuff than men are. All you have to do is say, "I'd like to climb with you but I'm not looking for anything romantic." If that doesn't do the trick then walk away. But then most women do not put their cards on the table. Why should we have to annouce ourselves like that though?? Why should we have to put these cards on the table? I'm quite certain that no woman is ever expecting a new male partner to say that to them.
You shouldn't, but you do, unless you want to get hit on. If we lived in society where women hit on men more or if sex weren't in the picture, this wouldn't be an issue. But we don't live in that kind of society, and sex IS an issue. Kripes, I shouldn't have to ALWAYS be the one who makes overtures (don't have to anymore :). It's a pain, scary... but it's the way it is IN GENERAL.
|
|
|
|
|
granite_grrl
Jun 19, 2003, 7:35 PM
Post #24 of 119
(10491 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 15084
|
In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: I am starting to think that women are a lot more messed up about this stuff than men are. All you have to do is say, "I'd like to climb with you but I'm not looking for anything romantic." If that doesn't do the trick then walk away. But then most women do not put their cards on the table. Why should we have to annouce ourselves like that though?? Why should we have to put these cards on the table? I'm quite certain that no woman is ever expecting a new male partner to say that to them. You shouldn't, but you do, unless you want to get hit on. If we lived in society where women hit on men more or if sex weren't in the picture, this wouldn't be an issue. But we don't live in that kind of society, and sex IS an issue. Kripes, I shouldn't have to ALWAYS be the one who makes overtures (don't have to anymore :). It's a pain, scary... but it's the way it is IN GENERAL.
It's true, but I don't have to like it! :x
But at least in terms of climbing partners, or going out and doing something else like that, the male should go out because he wants to do the activity with the person, not so he can get a date or get laid. There's nothing like developing something that you think is a friendship and then getting dropped because you're not sexually interested. More then anything else in that kind of situation you just feel betrayed.
Fortunally I don't think that this happens too often, but I have found myself not mentioning my boyfriend until I'm out bouldering with a guy sometimes so that hopefully we talk a little and the next oppurtunity to go out he choses whether or not to go based on what he thinks of me, not if I'm single or not.
|
|
|
|
|
dirtineye
Jun 19, 2003, 7:47 PM
Post #25 of 119
(10491 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2003
Posts: 5590
|
See there, women are a sneaky treacherous lot. You could always say I have a boy friend but I'd love to climb with you as a pal. that would be honest, and it would cut out the ones that are looking for romance only.
I've met a few women that will come out and say that they dont want a romance but they do want to be friends and climb. IT's much better that way, and I admire their honesty. LOL, I'd even like to date one that was that honest.
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
