Forums: Climbing Disciplines: Sport Climbing:
Breaking Gear???
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Sport Climbing

Premier Sponsor:

 


jcs


Jan 15, 2002, 10:02 PM
Post #1 of 10 (2166 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 25, 2001
Posts: 127

Breaking Gear???
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Hey Everyone!
A few posts in the last little while have mentioned gear (biners) breaking! Has anyone had this happen to them or someone they know? Climbing gear, when used correctly, should be able to take AT LEAST 22kN of force- on a dynamic line in a forseeable climbing situation, that much force will basically never be placed on any single piece of gear! So whats up with this breaking gear stuff?

JCS


wigglestick


Jan 16, 2002, 7:06 AM
Post #2 of 10 (2166 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 27, 2001
Posts: 1235

Breaking Gear??? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

You are correct that gear, a carabiner for example, is unlikely to break when used properly. However when improper techniques are used it becomes easier. For example, a biner with a breaking strength of 22kn might have an open gate strength of 7kn. The biner could very easily break under normal conditions of the gate were to open, either due to "gate flutter" or improper positioning which causes the gate to be opened by the rock or other feature.

Also, I believe if you search the threads a little and read about some issues such as the American Triangle or fall factors approaching and greater than 2 you will learn about many situations where the strength of gear can be exceeded under normal loads. Hope that helps.


jt512


Jan 16, 2002, 6:39 PM
Post #3 of 10 (2166 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 11, 2001
Posts: 21892

Breaking Gear??? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Wigglestick wrote:
Quote:...a biner with a breaking strength of 22kn might have an open gate strength of 7kn. The biner could very easily break under normal conditions of the gate were to open, either due to "gate flutter" or improper positioning which causes the gate to be opened by the rock or other feature.

You are right. Any carabiner that gets loaded in normal use is virtually assured of not breaking provided it gets loaded along its long axis with its gate closed. Unfortunately, loading with the gate open is common due to the factors you mention: gate flutter and interference from the rock. For this reason, open gate strength should be one of your main criteria when buying carabiners for your quickdraws.

A hard lead fall can generate more than 2000 lbs. of force. Cheap biners have open gate strengths as low as 7 kN (1575 lb) and could thus easily break should their gate pop open in a hard fall. In contrast, better (and more expensive) biners have open gate strengths as high as 10.5 kN (2363 lb), and are, thus, much safer.

-Jay


[ This Message was edited by: jt512 on 2002-01-16 18:42 ]


dustinap
Deleted

Jan 16, 2002, 10:28 PM
Post #4 of 10 (2166 views)
Shortcut

Registered:
Posts:

Breaking Gear??? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

My friend has broken 5 10Kn Nuts. I saw a petzl Key Lock carabiner that did NOT shut all the way, I am sure it was from the gate fluttering open under a large fall.

I bootied a .5 DMM walnut that had a piece of the metal chipped off it, a large piece, in the center of the nut.

That is the year of 2001 alone.

[ This Message was edited by: dustinap on 2002-01-16 22:29 ]


beyond_gravity


Jan 27, 2002, 10:42 AM
Post #5 of 10 (2166 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 1, 2002
Posts: 5076

Breaking Gear??? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

has anyone heard of ropes braking?


Partner pianomahnn


Jan 27, 2002, 10:49 AM
Post #6 of 10 (2166 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 16, 2001
Posts: 3779

Breaking Gear??? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Only due to stupid human error, not checking it. But I've never heard of someone who made sure the rope was allright (visual inspection) only to have it snap. Seems unlikely, and the fall would have to be MASSIVE!!


jds100


Jan 27, 2002, 12:08 PM
Post #7 of 10 (2166 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 4, 2001
Posts: 1008

Breaking Gear??? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Yeah, I think a fall that could break a good rope would be more likely to break the climber or the harness first. Again, this assumes that the rope is used and cared for correctly.

Wired nuts need to be inspected, too, of course; they can get suspect if they've been "wiggled" excessively to get 'em out of a placement (wire strands begin to break). Same for SLCDs.

The only stuff I've actually seen that is broken, is from testing scenarios and from deliberate misuse scenarios, as demonstrations. And, that was the point.


Partner pianomahnn


Jan 27, 2002, 12:15 PM
Post #8 of 10 (2166 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 16, 2001
Posts: 3779

Breaking Gear??? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Yeah, gear is pretty damn sturdy.


beyond_gravity


Jan 27, 2002, 2:09 PM
Post #9 of 10 (2166 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 1, 2002
Posts: 5076

Breaking Gear??? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Dude, i mean if i never retire my rope, will it break, or will i just get an X-treme wedgie every fall?


Partner pianomahnn


Jan 27, 2002, 2:15 PM
Post #10 of 10 (2166 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 16, 2001
Posts: 3779

Breaking Gear??? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

If you never, ever, retire your rope, I would assume someday it would fail. When? I wouldn't be able to tell you, and neither would anyone else. WAAAAAAAAAAAAY too many factors involved.


Forums : Climbing Disciplines : Sport Climbing

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?
$17.95 (10% off)
$14.36 (10% off)
$1.35 (10% off)
$39.15 (10% off)



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook