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baalzimon
Jul 8, 2003, 4:41 PM
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I bailed on a climb yesterday because it was getting too hard and runout.
I did it by rapping off a bolt. I saw the trick in climbing magazine I think. it worked really well.
-I threaded a loop of webbing evenly through the bolt.
-tied a free end of the rope to one end of the webbing
-pulled the rest of the rope through both loops of webbing
-rapped down
-pulled the rope all the way through the webbing
-i then yanked on the end of the rope that was tied to the webbing
-the webbing pulled through the bolt and down to the ground
(there were basically three lengths of rope going from bolt height to the ground: one free end on the ground, leading up through both loops and then hanging down to the ground, and then back up to the webbing where the other free end is tied to only one loop of webbing.)
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pamola
Jul 8, 2003, 5:05 PM
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1 Bolt rapping? YIKES!
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rwaltermyer
Jul 8, 2003, 5:16 PM
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yikes.
this is why i dont like rc.com sometimes. what if a newbie didnt understand the article, or only read the subject line.
There is so much room for misinterpretation. scary.
randy
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morganesque
Jul 8, 2003, 5:17 PM
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Obviously not the first choice, but I like it in a pinch. Thanks!!
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bandycoot
Jul 8, 2003, 5:27 PM
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That's a pretty cool system for retrieving your gear! :D
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robmcc
Jul 8, 2003, 5:29 PM
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The point of that technique is that it allows you to pull the webbing once you get to the ground. You leave nothing. No biner, no webbing.
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zdog
Jul 8, 2003, 5:41 PM
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At least read the article before posting a reply. It still mentions to leave one biner as a backup below the highest bolt.
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no_limit
Jul 8, 2003, 5:43 PM
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Actually, you are supposed to clip into the bolt below with a leaver biner, for redundancy.
As you can see in fig. 1 of the article, where it says "backed up for redundancy".
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edge
Jul 8, 2003, 6:03 PM
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This is precisely why failure is not an option. 8)
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jt512
Jul 8, 2003, 6:03 PM
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In reply to: Actually, you are supposed to clip into the bolt below with a leaver biner, for redundancy. As you can see in fig. 1 of the article, where it says "backed up for redundancy".
The technique described in the article is often called the "Texas Rope Trick." Since the entire point of the trick is to rappel without leaving any gear behind, backing up the trick with a leaver biner defeats the purpose of the trick. If you are going to use the Texas Rope Trick, do so with the full knowledge that your life depends on a single bolt.
-Jay
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jammin
Jul 8, 2003, 6:20 PM
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That works as long as you can get three ropes lengths to the ground. If you can't, you need a leaver beener.
I've fallen on a bolt, so in a pinch why not rap on one.
:?:
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baalzimon
Jul 8, 2003, 6:39 PM
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I realized that i was hanging off one bolt, however, like Jammin said, if you would take a big fall on one, why not rap off of one when you have no other options.
Also, i was sort of backed up in the sense that my rope was still running throuh all of the draws that i had clipped on the way up.
BTW, i did all of this after one of my biggest lead falls ever, and definitely my biggest on a slab. before falling, i got very sketched out and actually downclimbed several moves to get within 10 or 12 feet of my last peice. before that, all i saw was 6 feet up to the next bolt and my rope running over a bulge into what seemed like an abyss.
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markanite
Jul 8, 2003, 7:01 PM
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Question: Won't the webbing (used to make the sling) heat up and greatly increase the chance of it breaking?
Mark
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hoppinbig
Jul 8, 2003, 7:09 PM
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There is no heat caused by this method because the rope isn't moving across the surface of the webbing - you are lowering yourself down the rope, since there is no movement of rope across the webbing there is no friction - so there is no heat. If there was movement and heat the rope would burn through the webbing in no time. ONLY attempt this if you know what you are doing - and always place a backup - you're life isnt worth saving a $6 biner.
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jt512
Jul 8, 2003, 7:16 PM
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In reply to: Question: Won't the webbing (used to make the sling) heat up and greatly increase the chance of it breaking? Mark
You're rapping through the sling, not lowering. Since the rope is not moving through the sling, no heat is generated. However, after you're on the ground, when you pull your rope the sling you may damage it, so check it before you use it again. I used to have a dedicated sling I'd use just for Texas Rope retreats. It was stolen along with some other gear. Gee, I sure hope the thief notices how worn that sling is.
-Jay
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daisuke
Jul 8, 2003, 7:22 PM
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rapping off one bolt shouldn't really worry you, when you're rapping off anchors they could still fail, or your rope could fail and you could fall, you can't always have everything in life, that said I get scared when I pull the trick as well... for some reason you're usually not scared to fall on bolts and you get scared when much less weight is on the same thing
D
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tim
Jul 8, 2003, 7:22 PM
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In reply to: yikes. this is why i dont like rc.com sometimes. what if a newbie didnt understand the article, or only read the subject line. There is so much room for misinterpretation. scary. randy
It's a freely available resource and we (== the owners and stakeholders) can't take responsibility for what everyone posts. Although the mods attempt to quash the most egregious Darwinator posts...
Critical thinking is just as important in an online forum as it is when evaluating a "3.5% mortgage with no credit check!" or a patent on a perpetual motion machine. In the end people have to think for themselves about whether anything is a good idea.
Note that the above is coming from a guy who's rapped off of some of the scariest threads and shifty micronuts you could imagine, and therefore should be considered the babblings of a raving lunatic.
--t
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jt512
Jul 8, 2003, 7:31 PM
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In reply to: rapping off one bolt shouldn't really worry you... for some reason you're usually not scared to fall on bolts and you get scared when much less weight is on the same thing D
I disagree. Rapping off a single bolt should worry you plenty. If you aren't scared doing this, you're an idiot. If you fall on a low bolt, hopefully you won't fall far enough to die. If you fall on a high bolt, you are at least backed up by one or more lower bolts. When you do a Texas Rope rappel, you are not backed up. If your bolt fails, you will deck. Even if you haven't yet unclipped the lower bolts, you would almost certainly lose control of your rappel if your bolt failed.
-Jay
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rrrADAM
Jul 8, 2003, 7:33 PM
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This is the Texas Rope Trick, and it will kill you if done wrong.
Also trusting your life to one piece of pro is bad practice.
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cricket
Jul 8, 2003, 7:46 PM
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Rappelling is dangerous, as I have only used one anchor bolt, since two may make it extremely difficult to pull the rope through once done casuing too much friction - that is, depending on how far apart or close together they are.
How can you make one bolt safer for rappelling? Where is the redundancy?
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jt512
Jul 8, 2003, 7:49 PM
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In reply to: Rappelling is dangerous, as I have only used one anchor bolt, since two may make it extremely difficult to pull the rope through once done casuing too much friction - that is, depending on how far apart or close together they are.
What the f*ck are you talking about?
-Jay
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evoltobmilc
Jul 8, 2003, 7:51 PM
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In reply to: Also trusting your life to one piece of pro is bad practice.
Tell that to the Krauts over here!! I consistently see them belaying, TRing, rapping, and lowering off of single bolt anchors. That's why I've quit climbing until I get back to a continent where climbers are sane.
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rrrADAM
Jul 8, 2003, 7:51 PM
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In reply to: Rappelling is dangerous, as I have only used one anchor bolt, since two may make it extremely difficult to pull the rope through once done casuing too much friction - that is, depending on how far apart or close together they are. How can you make one bolt safer for rappelling? Where is the redundancy?
Assuming this isn't a TROLL...
Sounds like you are rapping off of bolts by putting your rope through them. If these are not RAP BOLTS, you are going to ruin your rope. RAP BOLTS are much thicker than normal bolts, to allow more surface area in contact with the rope. Normal bolts can cut into it.
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fredbob
Jul 8, 2003, 8:23 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Also trusting your life to one piece of pro is bad practice. Tell that to the Krauts over here!! I consistently see them belaying, TRing, rapping, and lowering off of single bolt anchors. That's why I've quit climbing until I get back to a continent where climbers are sane.
In Europe, it is not uncommon for the anchor to consist of a single bolt. Usually, these are huge bolts that are in no danger of failing. They are usually stronger than any bolts you will find in the States. Often, they have (or end in) a large round ring. On sport routes, you usually clip in, untie, feed the rope, then clip into a locking biner on harness with a figure 8 on a bight and lower.
I would rather lower off a single one of those than any two 1/4 inch jobs we used to belay off in times past.
As for the Texas Rope Trick, it defeats the purpose to leave something on a lower bolt. Unless the bolt is old and manky, the risk is likely small. But, don't do it if you aren't comfortable.
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