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Defense of Sport Climbing
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fiend


Jul 16, 2001, 10:16 PM
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Defense of Sport Climbing
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We've recently had a lot of bolting issues come up in the forums, so anyone willing to step up for sport climbing?

[ This Message was edited by: fiend on 2001-07-16 22:16 ]


Partner russman


Jul 16, 2001, 10:31 PM
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I will admit....sport is all i have climbed...the only problem is that no matter who comes to the defense of anything, there will always be someone trying to put them down. If sport is the only opportunity that someone has to climb and they do it and love it...then to them that is the best. If someone only ice climbs adn that is all they do..then that is the best. It is all a matter of personal perception. If someone has a problem with using bolts and sport climbers...then I would suggest, find your own rocks, never tell anyone, and quit bitchin' about all the bolts. If Sport is all that you have in your area...don't bitch about it but still climb the routes. Stick to your guns, drive a little ways and climb something new. Don't get me wrong, I may not be the best climber, but I would be willing to try most anything...have never been posed teh chance. Just my 2 cents

The Russman


wandt


Jul 17, 2001, 1:43 AM
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I think I've been speaking up on Sport Climbing's behalf a fair bit.

But, since I learned to lead trad before sport (my teacher did most of his climbign in the UK) I'm probably not the spokesperson it deserves.


kriso9tails


Jul 18, 2001, 1:26 AM
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Climbing IS climbing. All types have their different appeals, so naturally people will have their preferences.I've met people who think trad is right because it was first and that pisses me right off. Sport has it's place. It allowed me to learn to lead witout having to go back to 6s (like I'm doing for trad now). The only argument that I can see as viable is that sport is harmful, but I don't believe that sport is in any way harmful, just some sport climbers. Just as some trad climbers are bad for the sport. I could say sport is the only true climbing (and back it up in a debate) but I don't believe that, plus it would be an argument against sport in the long run.


krillen


Jul 27, 2001, 11:46 AM
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A lot of argument stems from People bolting a perfectly good crack climb JUST so they can do sport on it. Sport was Developed for those areas where there was no placeable pro. So for minimal impact bolt non-tradable areas, and for deccent trad climbs climb trad. Living in harmony side by side. Each type has it's place.


kriso9tails


Jul 27, 2001, 10:40 PM
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Some areas are sport areas, so cracks get bolted. If you have twenty sport climbs and one trad climb, no one is ever going to use that line unless it gets bolted. I don't see responsible bolting as harful to the rock, so I can't say I don't disagree with having some areas as strictly trad, some strictly top rope, some strictly bouldering, and some strictly sport.


jsm280


Jul 27, 2001, 11:35 PM
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Let's all just climb.

Trad is my prefered, however Trad takes $$$$ and a different comitment, not to mention a good partner. I remember the days when I ate only noodles so I coule get some RC parts and looked foward to the day I could get a new kit. That was my love at the time and if I knew climbing then I would have most likley bought a draw and scrounged for that biner.

Sport climbing I feel is somewhere in the middle. It gets you on the sharp end cheap. Your mind can focus on the climb and not the pro you just shoved into some crack or where your next will go. Sport can get you on some great routes which don't have any placement so Trad would be out anyway.

I do still feel Trad, Sport, Top rope all have their place and each should resect the other.

If I had a tight budget I would sport the draws while I saved for the cams.
I also have to say.... If I had 5-14+'s on my plate to fill I would also sport the draws.

I am just happy to climb and look out over the tree tops as I rest and get ready for that next pitch.

I repect all climbing, I also respect nature. The bolts on the rocks do far less damage than the rednecks tossing beer bottles over the cliff just to hear them break. Cleanup is more important than the bolts or lack of.

In my opion, the best argument for Trad over Sport is Trad takes a bigger commitment and most are not willing to make that jump. That would keep many people off the crags which in turn would help prevent the wear and destruction of vegitation (not the bolts in the rock) and the left over trash so many people leave.

Just help others repect the rock and its suroundings and climb on.



tankshild


Aug 3, 2001, 2:47 PM
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as said earlyer trad climbing takes $$$$ and if your like me i dont have enough to trad, so I sport climb.

the agument that the bolts hurt the rock is only partly true. if done right its only a 1/2' hole.

there not eye sores ether. if your on a trail looking at the surondings you cant see the bolts unless the sun hits them just right.

some trad climbers dont like the bolts but most of the exitment of trad is it dosent matter were you go canyon you can find a place to go. sport climbers have to go were thers bolts.


iclimb512s


Aug 25, 2001, 7:30 PM
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if there is no where to put in gear, then put in bolts. the only problem is that sport climbers wanna sport climb. they dont wanna put gear in, they just wanna clip and go, thats how i am. and sport climbers are gonna want to climb cracks. im all for bolts. lets just make sure we dont go too crazy on putting bolts everywhere.


talons05


Aug 25, 2001, 7:49 PM
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This may be a fairly unwanted message due to my newness as a member to this site. I am far from the 5000000000 posts that I see most of the responses have. But, I do have something to say. Sport, Trad. In fact, just before I saw this post, I posted a message inviting discussion on bolt-chopping, an Issue I have been pondering lately. I feel that those little metal rings are the source of all conflict between Trad and Sport climbers. Having done both, I prefer Trad, but my best friend is a Sport addict. Both have their good points - Sport is quick, clean, clip-and-go, and usually very very hard both stylistiaclly and power-wise. Trad is slower, more methodical, and almost holds a certain spiritual element. Try both, pick the one you like, and keep pulling down hard!


climber1


Aug 26, 2001, 10:22 PM
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as a long time climber, trad climbing was the only climbing when I started. I was opposed to sport climbing when it came along. but guess what, I now climb sport routes and enjoy them. like everyone has said climbing is climbing. the only problem I do have is with bolt protected cracks.


kam_ill_eon


Dec 1, 2001, 11:05 AM
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As far as I'm concerned, sport climbing is just as competitive as any other type of climbing. Now whether you think that it's too begginer or not is up to you. I feel to each his own. Climbing is there to stimulate the mind and body through good hard exercize. Let people exercize "how, when, or what they may."


metoliusmunchkin


Dec 5, 2001, 2:55 PM
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I am with Kris. As long as there are many differing types/opinions of climbing there will always certain issues that will either be supported or rejected. I am all for sport climbing, and have nothing against it in any way.

Although, it is the inappropriate bolting that I am against. The fact that one would bolt a well known trad route, because of the fact that the particular person could not climb such a trad route, seems very wrong to me.


wigglestick


Dec 5, 2001, 3:17 PM
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From what I have read the main two arguements that people are making is that sport climbing is good because it is cheaper than trad climbing and easier to get into than trad climbing. If you applied this philosophy (cheap and easy is good) to the rest of your life than we would all eat at McDonalds and go to Community College and work for the government or on an assembly line. In climbing, and in life, true satisfaction from comes from hard work and personal sacrifice. Don't turn our sport into a fast food franchise.


bill82901


Dec 11, 2001, 4:13 PM
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There seems to be a general agreement so far in this discussion. Of course, we are in the sport climbing group, so many of the hard core trad climbers may not read this. I agree that bolted routes are an important part of the sport. Bolt where it is needed, leave it alone if there is traditional protection. One thing for sure is I have fierce respect for "old school" bolting, done from stances with a hand drill, on the sharp end of a rope...


ravens_wing_jim


Dec 24, 2001, 8:11 PM
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    What is all this
debate about sport vs trad? It makes no sense
climbing is a personal journey,not to be dictated by anyone. Their both different yes,
but it doesnt matter if your into sport or trad, their both gunning for the budda, and they both have their place in the climbing world. And in response to another climber in here that compared sport to Mcdonalds, give me some of that big mac and fries that Sharma ate.


graniteboy


Dec 24, 2001, 8:52 PM
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I like freesoloing sport routes every bit as much as I like freesoloing trad routes...so What's the issue??





[ This Message was edited by: graniteboy on 2001-12-24 20:53 ]


lildragon


Dec 24, 2001, 9:04 PM
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i completely don't agree with bolting areas that could be naturally protected. even if it is in a so-called "sport climbing area". rock is rock. if it can be climbed clean, i think that's more important than changing it to selfishly fit your own desires. if you're too scared to climb it, then don't. bolting in the wilderness is even worse. there's no adventure in that. if you climb because you enjoy and respect the earth, then bolting doesn't make much sense to me. if you climb only for yourself, then i guess it really doesn't matter what you do to the rock as long as you can climb. don't get me wrong, i'm not saying trad or nothing. but i would rather toprope a climb, than develop a "new" area with holes in the rock. there's enough established sport routes to keep anyone busy for a lifetime.


Partner rrrADAM


Dec 24, 2001, 9:38 PM
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Sport Climbing needs no defense... I may prefere Trad Climbing, but I enjoy clip-ups as well. I can climb at a much higher grade on Sport Routes than when I lead Trad, since I don't have to figure out placements.

But my passion is the 'chess game' of Trad.


rrrADAM


fo_d


Dec 24, 2001, 10:21 PM
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I think maybe I'm too thin skined to be jumping into the trad -v- sport thing but I always do it anyway. I have mostly sport climbed because thats what I live nearest to, but I'm buying cams this sping and I'm looking forward to doing more trad. but everytime this subject comes up someone makes me feel like a loser because I climb sport. ok if someone is bolting your crack and it tick's you off I'm sorry, I wish they wouldnt do that, but try not to take it out on all sport climbers, for some of us its all we have near by. I can take the extra 2 hr drive once or twice a month to trad and top rope but mostly i'd like to saty close to home.


darkside


Dec 25, 2001, 6:26 AM
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What a loser I am. I can't believe I am ignoring presents to get a climbing fix.

Anyway take a look at my user name, I do mostly trad, and consider the game you play with your mind to be more fun. Yet everytime I pick up my pack to go climbing and nearly blow a gonad, I think back to when I could only lead bolt protected routes. I had a single rope, not two double ropes. I only had a rack of a dozen draws and not a whole load of widgets, and my pack was much lighter. Ergo sport climbs are the lighter side and trad the 'darkside'.
Maybe we should be looking at ourselves as primarily all climbers, who prefer a form of protection. Or would that divide us more into bolters, cammers, and nutters. Hang on though, Im off ice climbing tomorrow so I'm screwed, erm...screwy?....screwer?
Have to admit though, when I jump on sport routes with my double ropes, it does raise eyebrows and comments. It's all good.

"Merry Christmas to all, and to all....good climbing".


treyr


Jan 5, 2002, 6:54 AM
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I think a sport climber is someone who is not as risk taking as a Trad or Big Wall climber. Or is poor and can only afford quickdraws.


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