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jcinco
Aug 7, 2003, 5:47 PM
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The goal of this unscientific poll is to gauge the community's views on, and acceptance of, chipping.
There are three questions below. Each question poses a scenario which route developers may face. The question of whether it is acceptable to chip existing, freed, routes is not included in this poll, since it is clear that the community is unanimously opposed to such behavior.
Remember, we are not discussing cleaning routes, comfortizing holds, or glue reinforcing suspect features. We are simply considering cases where the rock presents free climbing difficulties that the route developer can not overcome.
Post your responses to the three questions with either a YES (chipping is acceptable), NO (not acceptable), or NO OPINION (i.e. ambilvilence or don't care). No justifications please... this is a poll, not a discussion.
Thanks,
-JC
QUESTIONS:
1) A route developer whose redpoint limit is 12plus/13minus spots a great line with mostly fun 5.12 climbing. However, there is one very difficult section. Though the holds are there, and the moves are obvious, the developer isn't even remotely strong enough to free this section. He thinks that if the holds in the crux section are just a slight bit bigger, he can redpoint the route at a grade near his limit. Is it acceptable for the developer to enlarge these holds so that he can complete the first ascent?
2) An 80 foot route that is almost entirely 5.10 climbing has one very-short blank section. It is not certain whether this section is climbable, but it is minimally a V11 crux. It is clear that stronger climbers will not be interested in a route with such a short crux that can't be worked on the ground as a boulder problem. If two strategically placed pockets are added with the use of a power drill to the crux section, the route can be transformed into an enjoyable 5.10. Is chipping acceptable in this case?
3) A beautiful, severly overhanging shield of completely blank stone is located in a cave. The cave is of no interest to anyone except bats and the occasional hiker. It is clear that no human could ever free-climb such a steep, featureless swath of rock. Any possible route on this wall would have to be nearly 100%, completely manufactured: chipping, drilled pockets, chisseling, etc. Since this route could never be climbed anyway, is it acceptable to chip in this case?
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fanederhand
Aug 7, 2003, 5:50 PM
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DXXX no to all of the above.
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chirp
Aug 7, 2003, 5:51 PM
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1) yes
2) yes
3) no
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brianinslc
Aug 7, 2003, 5:52 PM
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No to all three.
Brian in SLC
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bluelip
Aug 7, 2003, 5:53 PM
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Not acceptable in any of the above cases.
Mike Coles
'bluelip'
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killclimbz
Aug 7, 2003, 5:54 PM
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In reply to: 1) A route developer whose redpoint limit is 12plus/13minus spots a great line with mostly fun 5.12 climbing. However, there is one very difficult section. Though the holds are there, and the moves are obvious, the developer isn't even remotely strong enough to free this section. He thinks that if the holds in the crux section are just a slight bit bigger, he can redpoint the route at a grade near his limit. Is it acceptable for the developer to enlarge these holds so that he can complete the first ascent?
In reply to: 2) An 80 foot route that is almost entirely 5.10 climbing has one very-short blank section. It is not certain whether this section is climbable, but it is minimally a V11 crux. It is clear that stronger climbers will not be interested in a route with such a short crux that can't be worked on the ground as a boulder problem. If two strategically placed pockets are added with the use of a power drill to the crux section, the route can be transformed into an enjoyable 5.10. Is chipping acceptable in this case?
In reply to: 3) A beautiful, severly overhanging shield of completely blank stone is located in a cave. The cave is of no interest to anyone except bats and the occasional hiker. It is clear that no human could ever free-climb such a steep, featureless swath of rock. Any possible route on this wall would have to be nearly 100%, completely manufactured: chipping, drilled pockets, chisseling, etc. Since this route could never be climbed anyway, is it acceptable to chip in this case?
Stoopid, build a wall.
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xanx
Aug 7, 2003, 5:57 PM
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1)no
2)no - it sounds like a stupid route anyway
3)yes IF the "chipper" owns the rock. if it isn't clearly his and only his property, then NO.
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fanederhand
Aug 7, 2003, 5:58 PM
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And one more thing. People that want to create their own route should build one not destroy what God placed on the earth (with public land that is). I understand that piton craft can damage the rock but it is unintentional and not used that often anymore. Or if a person wants to buy a cliff and then screw with it. ... Then there is bolting for sport routes ... acceptable I guess if done within reason. Trad is where it is at. Leave no trace is the best ethic I think.
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crotch
Aug 7, 2003, 5:59 PM
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1. NO
2. NO
3. NO
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climbhigh23
Aug 7, 2003, 6:00 PM
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1 - no
2 - no
3 - no, unless it is a private rock cave, in which case the owner can do whatever he/she feels they need to.....but if they chip it, they are lame.
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killclimbz
Aug 7, 2003, 6:27 PM
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In reply to: 1 - no 2 - no 3 - no, unless it is a private rock cave, in which case the owner can do whatever he/she feels they need to.....but if they chip it, they are lame.
If the person owns the land in any of these situations they can do what they want.
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slabmaster
Aug 7, 2003, 6:32 PM
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Registered: Jul 17, 2003
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Interesting choise of words in your survey...
1) A route developer whose redpoint limit is
2) ... It is clear that stronger climbers will not be interested in a route ...
3) ... The cave is of no interest to anyone ...
I know of a climb in Yosemite that is beyond my limit, I'm not interested in, and (as far as I know) nobody else is interested in it. So.....
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toejam
Aug 7, 2003, 6:40 PM
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Registered: Sep 24, 2002
Posts: 358
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No No and No
My thinking is, think about the climbers 50 years from now, when gecko-tape gloves or somesuch is standard issue. They'll be all pissed that your blank face is chipped, because it could have been their 5.17d
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dlintz
Aug 7, 2003, 6:40 PM
Post #14 of 323
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Registered: Sep 9, 2002
Posts: 1982
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1. NO
2. NO
3. NO
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billcoe_
Aug 7, 2003, 6:59 PM
Post #15 of 323
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Registered: Jun 30, 2002
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no - no - no - no - no Hope that caught them all.
NO.
How about this, a 5.6 climber chips holds so that the 5.7 he is attempting becomes do-able for him/her? (That one is right in line with your questions.)
uhhh.. NO.
Around here, the debate is, if a good hold has a sharper than hell edge, wherein you get a mandatory cut (most people most of the time), is it ok to smack it with a nut or a hex and slightly erode the sharpness of the edge?
Yes.
Now on to the Arnold for gov poll.....
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joshklingbeil
Aug 7, 2003, 7:00 PM
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Registered: Jul 6, 2002
Posts: 403
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No x 3 Chipping sucks .....
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joeschmoe
Aug 10, 2003, 3:16 AM
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Registered: Aug 4, 2003
Posts: 479
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no no and no. if you can't climb it, don't. end of question. however that doesn't mean don't try, just don't mess it up for the rest of us.
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coldclimb
Aug 10, 2003, 3:29 AM
Post #18 of 323
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Registered: Jan 14, 2002
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no.
no.
no.
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bouldrinsoill
Aug 10, 2003, 3:47 AM
Post #19 of 323
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Registered: Apr 12, 2003
Posts: 109
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1.fu*k no
2.fu*k no
3.fu*k no
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climbingcowboy
Aug 10, 2003, 4:11 AM
Post #20 of 323
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Registered: Jun 24, 2002
Posts: 1201
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1. no
2. no
3. I wouldnt do it but dont really care if someone else does.
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oklahoma_climber
Aug 10, 2003, 4:35 AM
Post #21 of 323
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Registered: Dec 26, 2002
Posts: 204
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no.
no.
no.
but if you own the land..... still NO.
Climb what God gave you to climb... and if that's too tough, get better.
As for the ownership scenario: just because a piece of paper says you own the land doesn't give you the right to skimp on the integrity of the sport. Corked bats; Juiced Fullbacks; Spitball pitchers; Chipping climbers. They all belong in a small, ironclad cell at the bottom of the North Atlantic.
Oh, and while you're at it... pack out your trash. I'm not your mother, and I'm tired of cleaning up your mess.
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janiszewski11
Aug 10, 2003, 4:39 AM
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Registered: Feb 21, 2003
Posts: 57
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no
no
no
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old_school
Aug 10, 2003, 4:42 AM
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Registered: Oct 17, 2001
Posts: 259
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no no and no
leave the rock be, chip and die
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rockfax
Aug 10, 2003, 4:47 AM
Post #24 of 323
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Registered: Oct 26, 2001
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In reply to: The goal of this unscientific poll is to gauge the community's views on, and acceptance of, chipping.
I've got another three questions for your pathetic poll.
Is asking these questions:
1. Pathetic
2. Absolutely Pathetic
or
3. The questioner should be burned at the stake for being superbly pathetic.
Creating holds to climb rock is pathetic period.
And I should know because I'm pathetic.
Mick
www.rockfax.com
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phugganut
Aug 10, 2003, 5:52 AM
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Registered: Jan 17, 2003
Posts: 648
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1)no
2)no
3)no
Also, for all future "is it ok to chip if" questions, the answer is no.
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