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jcinco


Aug 7, 2003, 10:47 AM
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Poll on chipping
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The goal of this unscientific poll is to gauge the community's views on, and acceptance of, chipping.

There are three questions below. Each question poses a scenario which route developers may face. The question of whether it is acceptable to chip existing, freed, routes is not included in this poll, since it is clear that the community is unanimously opposed to such behavior.

Remember, we are not discussing cleaning routes, comfortizing holds, or glue reinforcing suspect features. We are simply considering cases where the rock presents free climbing difficulties that the route developer can not overcome.

Post your responses to the three questions with either a YES (chipping is acceptable), NO (not acceptable), or NO OPINION (i.e. ambilvilence or don't care). No justifications please... this is a poll, not a discussion.

Thanks,
-JC

QUESTIONS:

1) A route developer whose redpoint limit is 12plus/13minus spots a great line with mostly fun 5.12 climbing. However, there is one very difficult section. Though the holds are there, and the moves are obvious, the developer isn't even remotely strong enough to free this section. He thinks that if the holds in the crux section are just a slight bit bigger, he can redpoint the route at a grade near his limit. Is it acceptable for the developer to enlarge these holds so that he can complete the first ascent?

2) An 80 foot route that is almost entirely 5.10 climbing has one very-short blank section. It is not certain whether this section is climbable, but it is minimally a V11 crux. It is clear that stronger climbers will not be interested in a route with such a short crux that can't be worked on the ground as a boulder problem. If two strategically placed pockets are added with the use of a power drill to the crux section, the route can be transformed into an enjoyable 5.10. Is chipping acceptable in this case?

3) A beautiful, severly overhanging shield of completely blank stone is located in a cave. The cave is of no interest to anyone except bats and the occasional hiker. It is clear that no human could ever free-climb such a steep, featureless swath of rock. Any possible route on this wall would have to be nearly 100%, completely manufactured: chipping, drilled pockets, chisseling, etc. Since this route could never be climbed anyway, is it acceptable to chip in this case?


fanederhand


Aug 7, 2003, 10:50 AM
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DXXX no to all of the above.


chirp


Aug 7, 2003, 10:51 AM
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1) yes

2) yes

3) no


brianinslc


Aug 7, 2003, 10:52 AM
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No to all three.

Brian in SLC


bluelip


Aug 7, 2003, 10:53 AM
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Not acceptable in any of the above cases.

Mike Coles
'bluelip'


killclimbz


Aug 7, 2003, 10:54 AM
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In reply to:

1) A route developer whose redpoint limit is 12plus/13minus spots a great line with mostly fun 5.12 climbing. However, there is one very difficult section. Though the holds are there, and the moves are obvious, the developer isn't even remotely strong enough to free this section. He thinks that if the holds in the crux section are just a slight bit bigger, he can redpoint the route at a grade near his limit. Is it acceptable for the developer to enlarge these holds so that he can complete the first ascent?
Not very acceptable and lame.

In reply to:
2) An 80 foot route that is almost entirely 5.10 climbing has one very-short blank section. It is not certain whether this section is climbable, but it is minimally a V11 crux. It is clear that stronger climbers will not be interested in a route with such a short crux that can't be worked on the ground as a boulder problem. If two strategically placed pockets are added with the use of a power drill to the crux section, the route can be transformed into an enjoyable 5.10. Is chipping acceptable in this case?
This is the only case that I don't have much of a problem with.

In reply to:
3) A beautiful, severly overhanging shield of completely blank stone is located in a cave. The cave is of no interest to anyone except bats and the occasional hiker. It is clear that no human could ever free-climb such a steep, featureless swath of rock. Any possible route on this wall would have to be nearly 100%, completely manufactured: chipping, drilled pockets, chisseling, etc. Since this route could never be climbed anyway, is it acceptable to chip in this case?

Stoopid, build a wall.


xanx


Aug 7, 2003, 10:57 AM
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1)no
2)no - it sounds like a stupid route anyway
3)yes IF the "chipper" owns the rock. if it isn't clearly his and only his property, then NO.


fanederhand


Aug 7, 2003, 10:58 AM
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And one more thing. People that want to create their own route should build one not destroy what God placed on the earth (with public land that is). I understand that piton craft can damage the rock but it is unintentional and not used that often anymore. Or if a person wants to buy a cliff and then screw with it. ... Then there is bolting for sport routes ... acceptable I guess if done within reason. Trad is where it is at. Leave no trace is the best ethic I think.


crotch


Aug 7, 2003, 10:59 AM
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1. NO

2. NO

3. NO


climbhigh23


Aug 7, 2003, 11:00 AM
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1 - no
2 - no
3 - no, unless it is a private rock cave, in which case the owner can do whatever he/she feels they need to.....but if they chip it, they are lame.


killclimbz


Aug 7, 2003, 11:27 AM
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In reply to:
1 - no
2 - no
3 - no, unless it is a private rock cave, in which case the owner can do whatever he/she feels they need to.....but if they chip it, they are lame.

If the person owns the land in any of these situations they can do what they want.


slabmaster


Aug 7, 2003, 11:32 AM
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Interesting choise of words in your survey...

1) A route developer whose redpoint limit is

2) ... It is clear that stronger climbers will not be interested in a route ...

3) ... The cave is of no interest to anyone ...

I know of a climb in Yosemite that is beyond my limit, I'm not interested in, and (as far as I know) nobody else is interested in it. So.....


toejam


Aug 7, 2003, 11:40 AM
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No No and No

My thinking is, think about the climbers 50 years from now, when gecko-tape gloves or somesuch is standard issue. They'll be all pissed that your blank face is chipped, because it could have been their 5.17d


dlintz


Aug 7, 2003, 11:40 AM
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1. NO

2. NO

3. NO


billcoe_


Aug 7, 2003, 11:59 AM
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no - no - no - no - no Hope that caught them all.

NO.

How about this, a 5.6 climber chips holds so that the 5.7 he is attempting becomes do-able for him/her? (That one is right in line with your questions.)

uhhh.. NO.

Around here, the debate is, if a good hold has a sharper than hell edge, wherein you get a mandatory cut (most people most of the time), is it ok to smack it with a nut or a hex and slightly erode the sharpness of the edge?

Yes.

Now on to the Arnold for gov poll.....


joshklingbeil


Aug 7, 2003, 12:00 PM
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No x 3 Chipping sucks .....


joeschmoe


Aug 9, 2003, 8:16 PM
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no no and no. if you can't climb it, don't. end of question. however that doesn't mean don't try, just don't mess it up for the rest of us.


Partner coldclimb


Aug 9, 2003, 8:29 PM
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no.
no.
no.


bouldrinsoill


Aug 9, 2003, 8:47 PM
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1.fu*k no
2.fu*k no
3.fu*k no


climbingcowboy


Aug 9, 2003, 9:11 PM
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1. no

2. no

3. I wouldnt do it but dont really care if someone else does.


oklahoma_climber


Aug 9, 2003, 9:35 PM
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no.
no.
no.
but if you own the land..... still NO.

Climb what God gave you to climb... and if that's too tough, get better.

As for the ownership scenario: just because a piece of paper says you own the land doesn't give you the right to skimp on the integrity of the sport. Corked bats; Juiced Fullbacks; Spitball pitchers; Chipping climbers. They all belong in a small, ironclad cell at the bottom of the North Atlantic.

Oh, and while you're at it... pack out your trash. I'm not your mother, and I'm tired of cleaning up your mess.


janiszewski11


Aug 9, 2003, 9:39 PM
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no
no
no


old_school


Aug 9, 2003, 9:42 PM
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no no and no

leave the rock be, chip and die


rockfax


Aug 9, 2003, 9:47 PM
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In reply to:
The goal of this unscientific poll is to gauge the community's views on, and acceptance of, chipping.

I've got another three questions for your pathetic poll.

Is asking these questions:

1. Pathetic

2. Absolutely Pathetic

or

3. The questioner should be burned at the stake for being superbly pathetic.

Creating holds to climb rock is pathetic period.

And I should know because I'm pathetic.

Mick
www.rockfax.com


phugganut


Aug 9, 2003, 10:52 PM
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1)no
2)no
3)no
Also, for all future "is it ok to chip if" questions, the answer is no.

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