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Forged friends vs. flexible slcd's??
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conkdg


Jan 31, 2002, 4:00 PM
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Forged friends vs. flexible slcd's??
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Just wondering what the 'gearheads' think about the pro's and cons between a solid stem slcd and a flexible stem slcd.

Forged friends are cheap, why spend more money?


addiroids


Jan 31, 2002, 4:37 PM
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Forged friends vs. flexible slcd's?? [In reply to]
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Forged:
--Last forever
--Can be "tied off" in horizontals
--CHEAPER

Flexible:
--Skinnier shaft - can be placed above a constriction and still face down (huh huh, I said "shaft"
--LIGHTER
--Still last quite a long time

That's about all I have for now. I don't have any forged friends, but have lead with my buddies' forged friends many times.

TRADitionally yours,
Addiroids


sizzlechest


Jan 31, 2002, 5:38 PM
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Forged friends vs. flexible slcd's?? [In reply to]
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i've used alot of cams over the years, tcu's are my favorite up to rattly fingers, that's orange, other than that i have rigids tied off, i've climb tonnes on these on real hard trad projects where i'm whipping constantly, they are the bomb, the single stem flexible slcd's get flacid and floppy with time kind of like the male unit, also the wires kink when you take the big whips, so to review don't whip tonnes ? the single wired stems are good, whip lots, go with the rigid's tied off and for ultra thin to rattly go with tcu's

hope this helps

[ This Message was edited by: sizzlechest on 2002-01-31 17:39 ]


conkdg


Jan 31, 2002, 5:49 PM
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Thanks for the input you guys, seems like everyone has their favorite type of cam... but TCU's, Aleins, and forged friends seem to come up often.

BD camalots??? the heaviest???


gumby


Jan 31, 2002, 6:31 PM
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conk--

The Black Diamonds are definitely the cadillac" of cams. Yes they are heavy but you end up needing less of them to fill a rack due to thier respective camming ranges. I have grown to like trango cams for tcu's, they don't rape your bank account like some companies do:) which is nice for the college budget!


passthepitonspete


Jan 31, 2002, 7:19 PM
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Wild Country is definitely doing things the better way by bringing back forged Friends on the cheap!

I have twenty-year-old Friends on my rack that are still going strong! I have had to replace the trigger wires a few times, though, which you can do by yourself very cheaply and easily.

Sure, flexible cams are better in hori- zontals, but that's why you install the little tie-off cord, so you don't get a "Friender-Bender".

And of course, Aliens rock for one inch on down.

Camalots are very bitchin', and very much more expensive. They cover a wider range of expansion, but who cares? You can buy two or three forged Friends for the same price!

Dr. Piton's recommendation, which comes with the following caveat:

Unless

you are climbing in an area with a lot of thin cracks or a lot of really wide cracks,

then


Stick with Forged Friends in the #2 to #4 Friend size range because they're cheap

I don't use #1 and #1.5 Friends very much, be they flexible or forged

I would stick with flexible cams in sizes smaller than #2 Friend

I love Aliens from yellow on down, especially the hybrids which work superbly in pin scars



Further caveats:


I do not own any TCU's, so can't comment in the middle to large sizes. Aliens are far better in the smaller sizes (yellow on down), at least for aid climbing. Aliens might not be as robust for free climbing as TCU's in the smaller sizes

Above #4 Friend size, I have used only #5 Camalots and Big Bros. I do not have any experience with the new #5 and #6 Friend sizes, which I believe they now make. Camalots have a huge range of expansion in the large sizes, but they also cost huge bucks. Were I buying big cams again, I would probably buy more forged Friends for the same $ as fewer Camalots.


I am Dr. Piton,

and I have some of the oldest and most beat-up Friends you've ever seen!

[Just]me, they're still kickin'!]


jt512


Jan 31, 2002, 7:23 PM
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Quote:The Black Diamonds are definitely the cadillac" of cams.
Maybe in terms of their gross weight they are.

Quote:Yes they are heavy but you end up needing less of them to fill a rack due to thier respective camming ranges.
This is a fallacy.

The number of cams you need to carry up a pitch is primarily a function of the number of placements you will make. If you will be placing, say, 7 cams on the pitch, then you have to carry (at least) 7 cams. You can either carry 7 heavy BD Camalots or 7 lighter ones of some other brand.

-Jay (who bought two sets of Camalots before he figured out the above)

[ This Message was edited by: jt512 on 2002-01-31 19:25 ]


climber1


Jan 31, 2002, 9:16 PM
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Dr. Piton, I to have a couple of twenty year old friends that I still use. I have some Wild Country flex friends, some tri cams and quad cams from Metolius. I also have Camalots. presently switching over from the Metolius to BD. would like to have more Aliens


passthepitonspete


Jan 31, 2002, 10:18 PM
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Well hail...

A body just cayn't have too many o' them thur Alien thingies.....


vicum


Feb 1, 2002, 11:02 AM
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How does the "tie off thingie" work for horizantial placments? IE, how is it done. Thanks ~Arnold


camhead


Feb 1, 2002, 12:44 PM
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Vicum,
The tie off thingy, merely means tying off with some sling, cord, whatever, to the point on a forged cam's stem that is just sticking out over the lip of a horizontal crack. Basically, if the stem of your cam is sticking over the lip, and the very end of it (where you normally clip in) is weighted with a fall, it can snap. This will be less likely to happen with a flexible stem.
The other advantage of rigid stems, although I have never experienced it personally, is that they load much more predictably with a fall.


Partner artm


Feb 1, 2002, 1:02 PM
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Aliens, I love the Aliens on my rack.
I reach for em whenever I'm gripped.
They'll fit where nothing else will go and are great in pockets and horizontal cracks.
I do have a tendency to overcam them however.


woodse


Feb 2, 2002, 7:01 PM
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So are flexible cams better? Safer? I'm thinking about purchasing 7 cams and they are all forged, would I want to add flexible cams to my rack at some point or do forged cams work in every situation?

woodsE


beta


Feb 2, 2002, 7:30 PM
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With a "gunks" tie off, forged will work just fine in almost every situation.

I like aliens for the small stuff, the flexible stem, and smooth action, well, once you try 'em you'll be hooked, they seem to "fit" a lot of placements without too much screwing around. If you are trying to place in "really" small cracks, pinscars etal...... as the good Doctor (Pete) says, get Hybrid Aliens, NOTHING works as well.

Technical friends with their flex stems and really smooth triggers are another way to go, I like them a lot as well.

Try out as many as you can, preferably your buddies gear before buying, but take note of the advice of the experienced climbers here.
They have had a chance to try them all and use what works best.

beta


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