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dead_milkman
Aug 28, 2003, 7:30 PM
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In reply to: ...however, I don't have much respect for people that climb V10, at least not in the same way I have respect for Mark Twight and Berry Blanchard (sp?). I hold Doug Scott in higher regards then Dave Graham. I probably have more respect for Peter Zabrok then Lisa Rands.
I have to wonder, and I appologize in advance for what's going to come off as confrontational, but have you actually met any of these people?
In reply to: Why? Because courage earns respect, crimp strength doesn’t.
One can respect many different types of accomplishment, no?
Odd that you would mention "courage" and Twight, though. Many of his exploits seem to me to be the result of various things going on in his head, rather than courage. Anyway...
In reply to: The other thing is this purity thing…anyone who has done a multi-pitch trad route in the backcountry would never say bouldering is more pure.
It's best to avoid blanket statements.
In reply to: At least to me, there is nothing better then getting to the top of a route and enjoying the gentle wind, peace, and unpolluted sound as I belay the second up with nothing but air between me and the tree tops below.
How is this not possible on a boulder? On a hike? Canoeing down a river? One's church is what one makes of it.
In reply to: The longer the journey, the richer the experience.
Again, best to avoid blanket statements.
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wc
Aug 28, 2003, 7:32 PM
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In reply to: Because bouldering is climbing's lowest common denominator.
No, its HANGING you fool. I sent a HANG 9 today at Roubidoux... got my eye on this killer little HANG 10 FA... just so happens it is on this killer 4 foot high wave wall so you have to arc your body just so in order to balance your body weight and hold the slopers... then there is the Left HANG 11 variation where you blow off one of the slopers and hang the crimp...
Man, I love hanging, it's so pure, so uncomplicated, it truely is climbing's lowest common denominator!
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norskagent
Aug 28, 2003, 7:37 PM
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most hard sport routes, say at the new, involve significant sections of mindless "easy" climbing interspersed with "boulder" sections...so I just cut out all the easy crap and go boldering.
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climber49er
Aug 28, 2003, 7:44 PM
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I boulder because it's fun.
I boulder because I am challenged by it.
I boulder because I can do it alone if I want.
I boulder because it's a great workout.
I boulder because I want to.
I boulder mostly because I don't know enough climbers that I can climb with on my schedule.
When I started climbing I didn't know what bouldering was. I thought climbing only involved ropes and big cliffs that freak me out. I haven't spent much time on a rope. I enjoy bouldering for what it is. If I ever get more time in on a rope, then good, I will enjoy that also. I will continue to boulder because I love it.
At the end of the day, it's all a nice day outside challenging my body and mind.
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robmcc
Aug 28, 2003, 7:45 PM
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I would have thought it was obvious. People bash bouldering because bouldering isn't real climbing. It's kind of like slacklining. It's only on the site because some climbers do it, too.
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jabtocrag
Aug 28, 2003, 7:48 PM
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In reply to: I don't see that all the time... If anything, I see more boulderers trashing other styles of climbing, than I do others bashing bouldering. We all may not be brothers and sisters in the same style, but we are all cousins in that we climb, so we all have the last name: Climber It's all climbing brutha !!!
So beautiful...we're all family!! Talk about ur relatives you'd like to hide :lol:
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dlintz
Aug 28, 2003, 7:49 PM
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This talk of hanging and pogging is making my tendons hurt.
I'll talke a multi-pitch trad route over bouldering anyday but calling it more pure....I disagree. Bouldering is all about the moves, trad is all about the moves + protection + rope + placements + belaying + ....
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curt
Aug 28, 2003, 7:55 PM
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In reply to: I would have thought it was obvious. People bash bouldering because bouldering isn't real climbing. It's kind of like slacklining. It's only on the site because some climbers do it, too.
Rather poor attempt at trolling, read Hillary's "Hotties" thread and try again. Its the gold-standard of all trolls.
Curt
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robmcc
Aug 28, 2003, 8:02 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I would have thought it was obvious. People bash bouldering because bouldering isn't real climbing. It's kind of like slacklining. It's only on the site because some climbers do it, too. Rather poor attempt at trolling, read Hillary's "Hotties" thread and try again. Its the gold-standard of all trolls. Curt
Well, that'd be because I'm not trolling. Teasing the original poster a bit, yes. Trolling, no. I'm kidding and I freely admit it. :D
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xanx
Aug 28, 2003, 8:04 PM
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the sad thing is, i'm not exactly certain that was a troll...
one other thing i would like to mention: it takes an amazing amount of mental strength (or willpower or whatever) to make it up a hard trad lead or a crazy A5 pitch or whatever - you have to really really want it bad to even try something like that. people often cite the mental aspect of trad and aid, and i would second that. the main reason i have so much respect for hard trad and aid climbers is because they can keep it cool when there is so much danger.
however, making it up a V13 or harder boulder problem also requires just as much mental strength. you have to really know ur body and understand how it works and be able to tap into every reserve of strength to send something that hard. just think about it. even fred nicole probably doesn't just walk up to something like Dreamtime, eat a sandwitch, send it, and then go get a coffee. it requires A LOT of concentration. i bet we would all be very surprised (and i bet anatomy students would also be very surprised) if someone actually worked out the forces needed to pull the moves on something like Dreamtime or New Base Line. i would be surprised if they were within the limits of what human beings were previously thought capable of. just my theory.
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wc
Aug 28, 2003, 8:19 PM
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In reply to: I'll talke a multi-pitch trad route over bouldering anyday but calling it more pure....I disagree. Bouldering is all about the moves, trad is all about the moves + protection + rope + placements + belaying + ....
You can't boulder if you aren't hanging. You can't climb trad unless you are hanging... and you certainly have to Pull Off the Ground to get anywhere with any of them.
POGGING and HANGING are the ONLY pure forms of climbing... they are truely the essence of climbing
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robmcc
Aug 28, 2003, 8:20 PM
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In reply to: the sad thing is, i'm not exactly certain that was a troll...
Hope I cleared it up for you. I thought it was a question begging for such an answer, even if only in jest. If I have to give a serious response, I haven't gotten the impression bouldering is bashed at atll. To the contrary, I thought it was the "in" thing. As far as I'm concerned, climb whatever makes you happy and if you actually care what anyone else thinks of your climbing OR what you choose to climb, you may be doing it for the wrong reasons.
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craggy
Aug 28, 2003, 8:28 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Hell just climb and f**k em all. right... that's a great attitude to have.... really gonna make a lot of friends like that.... this site has really gone down hill in the last few months.... when i first came here trolls and flames came every now and then... now real responses come every now and then in between the flames and trolls.
What I MEANT was f**k the people that BASH you (the boulderer) and stop fretting over it. As I said before, who really cares if some lame ass lead climber who can lead at a 5.10 says boulderers suck. Great climbers don't sit there and worry about what people say, they climb and have fun. That's what i was trying to say.
btw, I boulder exclusively! I love it and I laugh at the people who think bouldering is easy or for wimps and lazy people. hahahahahahahaha
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floridaputz
Aug 28, 2003, 8:29 PM
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My Hiearchy for climbing
High altitude mountianeer/big wall climber
Alpine rock climber (trad)
Traditional Rock climber
Sport Climber
Boulderer
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thinksinpictures
Aug 28, 2003, 8:29 PM
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Someone said at the beginning of this thread that it was going to become a flame war. Some people have tried to avoid this and posted thoughtful comments on the schism developing between different types of climbing (between bouldering and “the rest” in this case). Others, true to the form of RC.com, have simply lambasted individuals and groups for practice one form of climbing or another.
When I started climbing one of the first things that impressed itself on me was how freaking nice all of the climbers I met were. Whether outdoors or in the gym, stronger or more experienced climbers always encouraged me, which contributed so much to my already thorough enjoyment of the sport.
Recently I’ve seen a growing number of people, mostly on this and other climbing sites, who have decided that they need to express – often loudly and rudely – that the type of climbing that they choose to participate in is somehow “better” than other forms of climbing. I think this is really sad, not just because the climbing community used to be so welcoming, but also because climbing is reaching a historical point where some major decisions are going to have to be made by both climbers and land managers regarding land use, recreational access, environmental protection, and other issues that ALL climbers have to deal with whether they like it or not. I’m not interested in entertaining arguments about what forms of climbing have the most of the least impact or will be more or less affected by these issues/decisions. I have my own thoughts, but they are for another forum, or a PM if you’re interested. The fact is that to one degree or another, ALL OF US WILL BE AFFECTED and all of us need to be thinking about these issues with our common interest in mind.
On a more philosophical note, we all climb because we love it, and we know that most other people don’t understand this love. Certainly whether you love trad, sport, bouldering, aid, ice, or whatever (heaven forbid that you might love more than one!), enough of this love is shared between us that we can understand why others might enjoy a different aspect of climbing than us, no? I’ve never climbed trad, but I desperately want to learn. I’ve never climbed ice and I have no desire to. I can, however, understand why people might really love BOTH of these types of climbing. And regardless of their courage or their crimp strength, I respect them because of their DEVOTION to climbing. Again, something that we all share.
I’m haven’t bothered to specify what types of climbing I do enjoy and why, because it just doesn’t matter. You don’t see me going around telling basketball players that they’re sport sucks and mine rules. I climb for my reasons and they play basketball for theirs. Who knows, I might even enjoy climbing AND basketball. Or maybe I do one as conditioning for the other. Unfathomable, isn’t it?
I don’t think this is flame worthy, but I don’t think that about most of the stuff on this site, and yet I’m constantly proven wrong. If you wanna flame, PM me and don’t waste other people’s time.
I don't recall who said this or I'd give proper (and well deserved) credit: "It's all climbing brutha"
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wc
Aug 28, 2003, 8:30 PM
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In reply to: however, making it up a V13 or harder boulder problem also requires just as much mental strength. you have to really know ur body and understand how it works and be able to tap into every reserve of strength to send something that hard. just think about it.
You should really try HANGING at your absolute limit! Nothing takes more mental strength than holding onto a buttery sloper for 5 seconds. It is concentrated climbing in it's purest form! It's all the rage here in CA... rumor has it the next XGames will have a hangboard comp with HANGS set by some of the world's top hangers!
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curt
Aug 28, 2003, 8:40 PM
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In reply to: My Hiearchy for climbing High altitude mountianeer/big wall climber Alpine rock climber (trad) Traditional Rock climber Sport Climber Boulderer
So, let's face it. you can't get both feet of the ground bouldering, right?
Curt
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crackaddict
Aug 28, 2003, 8:48 PM
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I was thinking the other day about how people see climbers and why there has been a lot of trashing on all climbers and their impact in the recent years. There are alot more climbers now. It seems that we are becomeing more and more noticeable. The first people that are getting noticed are the ones closer to the ground. Which are the boulderers.
People are going to judge climbers by their first impresions. So if someone sees some guy trashing the areas and being a jerk. Then people are gonna come off saying that climbers or boulderers are a certain way. As for as other climbers seeing boulderers. It works the same way. It seems that Boulderers that stand out these days are comonly the young gym rats. Which are stereotypicaly young guys with attitudes and have no respect for the outdoors.
I go bouldering as well doing all sorts of other climbing. And don't wish to be classified as some bouldering punk. But I think that it is up to us to educate those around us about impact on the land and how we should present ourselves when we are outside.
It would'nt hurt any to help others around to help preserve climbing. It is a difficult thing to do since climbing is all about being free and being able to express yourself through it. But really how we act says a lot about who we are. And since people are all about first impressions. It is up to us to make good ones. I would hate seeing our sport suffer from the ignorance of lame people. Because the rest of us suffer form it..
Don't know if this helps anyting but it makes me feel good.
So all in all its not boulderers thats suck its people that suck.
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dino
Aug 28, 2003, 9:13 PM
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I don't know anything about people dissing bouldering. I do know it is a great way to spend time cranking hard moves you (well, me anyway) wouldn't normally do on a multi-pitch. Where I boulder I can do three pitches of 5.9 moves in about an hour without doing the same move twice. Whew, good workout! It also gives me confidence for roped climbs. When I get into unfamiliar terrain or it gets a little sketchy working boulders allows me to trust that little nubin or know that I can hang on that crimper a little longer while plugging a piece. It has certainly improved my climbing. The only negative I can think of about boulding is that my best climbing partners don't like it.
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photon
Aug 28, 2003, 9:18 PM
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gotta love bouldering
1. it's as fun as any type of climbing
2. it's reducing the lines at popular cliffs lately
3. power power power
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dlintz
Aug 28, 2003, 9:19 PM
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In reply to: You can't boulder if you aren't hanging. You can't climb trad unless you are hanging... and you certainly have to Pull Off the Ground to get anywhere with any of them.
Hmm, interesting. Let's take it one step further for absolute purity: TOUCHING!
"Touching" is where you actually touch the rock. You can't POG or HANG if you aren't TOUCHING. This is the essence of all disciplines.
"Dude, the sent this wicked T4+ touch problem yesterday, it took me three tries to figure out where to put my left thumb."
:lol:
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curt
Aug 28, 2003, 9:23 PM
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No, no, no. "T" is already used for the "Troll" scale. You're going to need create a whole other rating system for touching. Hahahaha
Curt
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flyinghatchet
Aug 28, 2003, 9:25 PM
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What about the "F" scale then, for "feel"?
G$
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wc
Aug 28, 2003, 9:31 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: You can't boulder if you aren't hanging. You can't climb trad unless you are hanging... and you certainly have to Pull Off the Ground to get anywhere with any of them. Hmm, interesting. Let's take it one step further for absolute purity: TOUCHING! "Touching" is where you actually touch the rock. You can't POG or HANG if you aren't TOUCHING. This is the essence of all disciplines. "Dude, the sent this wicked T4+ touch problem yesterday, it took me three tries to figure out where to put my left thumb." :lol:
Now your just being silly. How could you possibly capture the essence of climbing by "touching" a rock? :roll: There isn't even an objective way to rate the problems? What is the point of "touching" a rock if you can't spray about how hard it was when you touched it that way? How would you ever know who the best "toucher" is... without meeting them (I mean ME) in person of course...
(yes, deep in my heart I know you are correct... touching rock is the essence of climbing... boiled down to its purest form... from now on I am a rock toucher... not a rock hanger... or rock climber... thanks for helping me see the only true path)
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stewbabby
Aug 28, 2003, 9:40 PM
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Ok... I dont have time to read this entire thread, but ill put in my 2 cents.... i come from an area where there is great boldering..... BUT unfortunately some of the boldering areas here in the south have either been shut down or almost shut down on severa occasions.... Just to name a couple are hp40 and LRC.... Both of these areas have been shut down over the past few years..... One of the reasons that they were shut down (not the only reason) was because of young punk bolderers who think that they own the world.... The fact of the matter is that unless the rock is in your back yard you have NO say.... When a bunch of kids roll up on a group of rocks and start yelling profanities when they fall off of their latest v8 problem it looks bad to the landowner.... Also the younger generation of climbers seem to have a total lack of respect for other peoples property.... leaving their redbull cans, tape, and other crap everywhere..... I know that this is not all bolderers, but there are a lot of young people with maxi pads in the woods.....
[/rant]
stewart
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