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double ended wire draws
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rigel


Feb 1, 2002, 1:33 PM
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Registered: Jan 28, 2002
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double ended wire draws
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sport climbers,

anybody have thoughts on the double wire gate draws out there? i have changed all my rope-end biners out for wiregates both for the ease of clipping and the weight, but i thought i remembered a passsage from john long's book stating that you should never use a wire gate biner for the hanger end.

has anyone heard otherwise? does anyone use them? there are several different companies makin' 'em (HB, Wild Country, etc.)

maybe it's just that i've never seen or heard of anybody using them.

thx.
rigel

[ This Message was edited by: rigel on 2002-02-01 13:34 ]


kriso9tails


Feb 1, 2002, 2:09 PM
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double ended wire draws [In reply to]
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By double wire gates you mean a wire gate on each end of the draw right?

I have hot wires on both ends of a few of my draws and it's not a problem (as far as I know). Sometimes I place my draws in upside-down because I don't check to see what side is what (and it's not so obvious when both biners are the same) but only on rare occassions. I like the hotwires in general. They perform well for clipping into bolts and exceptionally well (in my humble opinion) for clipping rope. I don't know of any drawbacks to this system (if any) yet for sport climbing, I wouldn't reccommend it. It serves no point and can be confusing (if both wire gates are the same). In fact, if I were me (oh if only) and I had the money, I'd go for spirits on top because of the fact that they don't have stupid groove that the bolts always catch on.

I don't see why you shouldn't use them on both ends, but unless you're carrying a whole bunch of gear and really need to save on weight, I don't see why you should.


joemor


Feb 1, 2002, 4:12 PM
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double ended wire draws [In reply to]
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you shouldnt use wire gates on "portable" bolt hanngers, the wire is thin and can allow the hannger to slip off the bolt, where as the normal sort are thick enough to prevent this happening.

joe


rigel


Feb 1, 2002, 4:36 PM
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double ended wire draws [In reply to]
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joe,

that's what i had read / heard...so why this new(??) trend in draws that have both ends rigged with wire biners?

rigel


paulc


Feb 1, 2002, 4:59 PM
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huh, wire gates let the hanger slip off the bolt??? Perhaps I'm missing something here. I don't see how wiregates at the bolt end of a draw would be a bad thing, just expensive.

Paul


sizzlechest


Feb 1, 2002, 5:11 PM
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paul, the previous post was from australia, in oz on alot of routes you carry your own hangers called "bolt plates" slip them over the blank stud then clip a draw to it, areas like mt. arapilies and the grampians are filled with these studs, the new super hard routes or more sport oriented areas have the "normal" kind of permanent hangers.


brogan


Feb 1, 2002, 5:36 PM
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I highly doubt that a company would put out unsafe quick draws on the market. Since Mr. Long wrote that book there has been a lot of advancments in wire gate beiners. I would only buy premade ones, because the bolt side beiner is probably designed for that purpose.


jt512


Feb 1, 2002, 5:38 PM
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In a lead fall, there is a small chance that the wire gate can get hooked on the bolt head, causing the biner to unclip. Paul (the gray-haired guy in "Spike's" photos) says he's seen it happen twice.

Another problem with having the same type of biner on both ends of your draws is that you can't easily tell one end from the other. Each of your draws should have one end that is s dedicated bolt end and the other end a dedicated rope end. The reason is that falling on bolts will eventually put rough little gouges in your caribiners, which will damage your rope's sheath. If you have the same types of biners on each end of your draws, you can't easily tell which end is your bolt end and which end is your rope end.

-Jay

-Jay


beanny


Feb 1, 2002, 6:40 PM
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I read in one of the forums that wire-gates are to lessen the possibilty of the biners opening when the climber falls... wire-gates lessen vibration thus rope has less chance to unclip. i couldn't find the thread now though...since wire-gate biners are more X why not use it only on the clipping end.. save some cash for other stuff.. climbing can be quite expensive..


daisuke


Feb 1, 2002, 7:34 PM
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Wire biners are all in all just better than solid gate biners except for the groove that catches on the rope which only a few solid gates don't have. Black diamond sells it's neutrino biners with double ended wire gates so they can't be dangerous. that the wire gater is not NEEDED on the end you clip onto the bolt hanger is something else, you'll never get enough inertia there to have the biner open.

D


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