|
|
|
|
semorrison
Sep 10, 2003, 9:21 PM
Post #1 of 61
(5952 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 10, 2003
Posts: 3
|
Hi,
I've had some trouble with K&R Adventure Gear recently. The short story is that they screwed up, and dragged their heels at every opportunity, rather than fixing the problem promptly. I'd recommend that you *don't* make purchases from them. The long story follows.
I ordered 4 CCH Aliens online from K&R, then a few hours later, realised I could get a better deal elsewhere. I wrote them an email asking if it would be possible to cancel my order, and the next day received a confirmation that my order had been cancelled.
Then, about a week later, I received an email from Fedex saying I had a package coming from them. I checked my credit card statement, and sure enough they'd charged me for the cancelled order. I got in touch with them, and warned them about their mistake, asking them to fix it.
I didn't here back from them for a while, so I called them up to explain. I asked for a refund of my money, and asked that they cover the cost of shipping the unopened parcel back to them. Firstly, they lied to me and said that I'd called them up asking to reinstate the order. This was certainly false -- to make the phone call I'd had to look up their phone number, so I couldn't possibly have called them earlier. Next, they refused
to pay the cost of return shipping, and demanded a 15% restocking fee, which was clearly inappropriate as they were solely at fault.
After a further phone conversation with my girlfriend, during which the K&R representative was abusive, we'd make no further progress. Eventually, after a few weeks of angry phone calls and emails, they relented, and agreed to cover postage, and 'as a one time courtesy' drop the 15% fee. I sent them the package, and now I've just received an email from them stating that while my check is in the mail, they are not honoring their promise to cover the shipping, apparently only paying half of it.
In summary -- they were the opposite of helpful, they cheated me, and never admitted that the problem was their fault. I couldn't recommend conducting business with them.
Scott Morrison
|
|
|
|
|
msiddens
Sep 10, 2003, 9:26 PM
Post #2 of 61
(5952 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 13, 2003
Posts: 130
|
Scott, I'm assuming you paid by CC for this? If that's the case, contact your bank and request a chargeback for the entire amount. If you took resonable efforts which it sounds like you did then you are not liable.
Let them eat it and your bank do the dirty work.
|
|
|
|
|
pico23
Sep 10, 2003, 10:46 PM
Post #3 of 61
(5952 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 14, 2003
Posts: 2378
|
I had a similar problem with a company. They told me the item was backordered for 2 weeks and even though they had the best price I needed it stat. So I ordered from shoreline spending $20 more and canceled from the other place. On the same day I received 2 boxes. One from business 1 and one from shorline. I contaced them and asked that I be refunded the full cost of the item, plus shipping both ways. My reasoning was that I had copy of the read receipt of the canceled order email on my computer and it was read days before they shipped my item.
In anycase, i didn't receive a refund for several weeks and when I did it was for the item only and not shipping even though I sent a copy of the email which they in plain english agreed to pay all shipping cost.
A place I will name that gave me tons of problems is Climbers Choice International. The whole story is complicated but not really in the sense of a business doing business. In anycase they ended up charging me about $15 extra for various things and it totally negated the reason why I shopped with them in the first place. I won't be ordering from them again unless it's something I can't find elsewhere.
|
|
|
|
|
redpoint73
Sep 10, 2003, 11:05 PM
Post #4 of 61
(5952 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 20, 2002
Posts: 1717
|
Are you from the USA? If so, file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau. You can do it online at http://www.bbbonline.com/
The only real requirement for filing is that you have made a legitamite effort to contact the business and resolve the situation, which you have. Most businesses loathe to have BBB complaints filed against them. Once they find out you have filed a complaint, they will likely remedy the situation in a speedy manner. The BBB is there for you to use, take advantage of it.
A friend of mine had trouble with a mail order vendor that guaranteed that they had the lowest price around, and of course he found a lower place somewhere else. They wouldn't refund the difference despite his efforts, so he filed a complaint with the BBB. The business contacted him RIGHT AWAY. They not only refunded the money, but also gave him a free $50 gift certificate.
|
|
|
|
|
thrasher
Sep 10, 2003, 11:43 PM
Post #5 of 61
(5952 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 17, 2002
Posts: 603
|
Your problem started when you ordered from someone other than GearExpress or MountainGear. Stick with them and you will have no problems.
|
|
|
|
|
rags
Sep 11, 2003, 12:36 AM
Post #6 of 61
(5952 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 4, 2002
Posts: 21
|
aaaaaaaaaaaa a aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
|
|
|
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Sep 11, 2003, 1:46 AM
Post #7 of 61
(5952 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 24, 2003
Posts: 2599
|
:roll: Your problem started when you cancled your order because you found the better deal you cheap f#$ing ba$tard. A deal is a deal and you pay your money and take your chances. Everybody is out there trying to make a liveing and you back out of a deal cause it wasen't the lowest price in town and then come crying to me :roll: What a loser. What do you do? go back to the freaking gas station and say, "take this gas back :evil: I don't wan't it caus it's 10 cents cheaper down the road" Get your head out of your arse and stop slandering a buisness because you are a cheap F#ck :roll:
|
|
|
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Sep 11, 2003, 1:59 AM
Post #8 of 61
(5952 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 24, 2003
Posts: 2599
|
This kind of crap pisses me off enough that I have to add to my FLAME fest :D You did not cancel your order due to bad service, poor quality, faulty equiptment ETC. You cancled your order simply because you found a better deal somewere else. News flash MORON!!!! That is a cheap lowlife way to do buisness. You Must have been a troll in a former life. I bet your mother was a troll and all you ancestors lived under a f%cking bridge 8) The proper way to do buisness is to do your reserch and then place your order. What you did was simeler to whelching on a bet and any bad service that followed your slimy deed was well deserved 8)
|
|
|
|
|
fear
Sep 11, 2003, 2:08 AM
Post #9 of 61
(5952 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 475
|
In reply to: Your problem started when you ordered from someone other than GearExpress or MountainGear. Stick with them and you will have no problems.
I have to add www.shorelinemtn.com. Nothing but great results from them over the years. But realize every company also screws up. Even Honda and Toyota make lemons. The difference is what they do about it. When having a problem with a company don't just deal with the front-line customer service e-mail. Always call and ask for a manager or whoever the supervisor is when talking over the phone, don't even bother with the $8/hour rep.....
-Fear
|
|
|
|
|
thrasher
Sep 11, 2003, 2:34 AM
Post #10 of 61
(5952 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 17, 2002
Posts: 603
|
re-read the post and you are right tradman...that was kind of bad. I think if I was a business I would be a litle pissed too. Going through the transaction, then cancelling it, etc is a pain in the ass for the business.
Forgot to add Shoreline and also Mountaintools as good companies.
|
|
|
|
|
bigwalling
Sep 11, 2003, 3:31 AM
Post #11 of 61
(5952 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 29, 2001
Posts: 728
|
Gear Express is great! They have phoned me to get me a better deal. I ordered a bunch of peckers and then a day or two later one of them called me up saying they had 2nds that were a couple dollars cheaper. I gladdly took them since they look way worse than that after one placement. I just got a crash pad from them and I got free shipping.
Shoreline has always been good.
I also have bought stuff from linkupgear several times. No problems and fast shipping.
Northern Mountain is okay. But I've had some troubles. But that was kinda BD's falt too.
|
|
|
|
|
markf
Sep 11, 2003, 3:57 AM
Post #12 of 61
(5952 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 6, 2002
Posts: 12
|
All you had to do was refuse the package when Fed Ex brought it to you, and it would have been returned at no cost to you and your credit card account credited for the purchase price.
Then again, all you had to do was shop a little more carefully before placing an order, and you could have gone with the better price to start with, and saved the folks at K & R the trouble of dealing with you.
I have to say, placing an order and then cancelling it a few hours later because you "found a better deal" sounds like a cheap trick to me.
mark
|
|
|
|
|
oldeclimber
Sep 11, 2003, 4:13 AM
Post #13 of 61
(5952 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 17, 2003
Posts: 125
|
If anyone wants to know what kind of person wrote this pissy little poison pen post about K & R Adventure Gear..........
Go check his sign up date on RC.com.
Ohhh.....I'll save you the trouble.......2003-09-10 10:02:02
What were you thinking.........
Gee, I think since I am such a cheap SOB, I will sign up on RC.com today and try to ruin a business that someone worked their arse off to build up.
How big of a loser are you......????
You obviously don't have any idea what it takes to run a business. You just make a call on that 800 number. Dah, it doesn't cost anything, it's toll free. Wrong, it does cost the business. The cost of doing business is unbelievable. There are payrolls, payroll taxes, sales taxes, office products, office space, office furniture, computers, employee benefits, and the list goes on and on.
Think about what you just did. You cost that business a lot of money so that you could save a few dollars. They took your order in good faith. I am certain that the person who answered the phone was polite, professional and worked with you to make certain that you were getting exactly what you wanted. Right? They took the time and they did their part. Right? They took the order, they pulled, packaged and shipped it to you promptly. Right? They did exactly what a GOOD company should do. Right?
You were the one who fouled things up for them. Businesses are set up to take orders, not cancel them. They take the call, they pull the materials, and get those materials to you asap. Once you get off the phone there are a lot of things that happen and every one of them costs the company money. They hussle to get your stuff to you, so that you will come back and buy from them over and over again. That is how they make money.
From what I read, they did a great job of getting your stuff out the door, maybe quicker than you expected. I didn't hear any complaints about the person who took your call. I didn't hear any complaints about slow delivery. I didn't hear any complaints about receiving the wrong merchandise. So what are you complaining about.....???
This was your fault. Period.
By the way.....how much was your order....bet it was less than $200.00, which means that even if you accepted the goods that you originally ordered, K & R might have made $25 after all their expenses get paid. It takes a lot of orders like that to stay in business.
I am very serious about this next part........
You should really call K & R Adventure Gear and accept your original order. Stop whining about a few dollars. You should definately start doing your shopping before you place any other orders with any other companies. You should cancel this post or write a retraction and apologize to the people at K & R for being a prick and trying to destroy their reputation and their business.
I am a business owner and I don't want or need your business....ever.
Thanks for not shopping with us!!
|
|
|
|
|
oldeclimber
Sep 11, 2003, 4:26 AM
Post #14 of 61
(5952 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 17, 2003
Posts: 125
|
Fear Wrote: In reply to: Even Honda and Toyota make lemons |
|
|
|
|
fear
Sep 11, 2003, 4:36 AM
Post #15 of 61
(5952 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 475
|
In reply to: Fear Wrote: In reply to: Even Honda and Toyota make lemons I thought Sunkist made lemons.....go buy a Chevy.
Actually I meant Honda and Toyota "sometimes" make lemons. Chevy, Ford, and Chrysler of course "only" make lemons.....
Thank you for your citrus wisdom....
-Fear
|
|
|
|
|
sonus
Sep 11, 2003, 5:47 AM
Post #16 of 61
(5952 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 14, 2002
Posts: 120
|
Sunkist doesn't actually make lemons, does it?
Lemons grow on trees...a product of insemination. A lemon is a swollen ovary, in fact.
Think about it the next time you go to a grocery store.
:P
|
|
|
|
|
robmcc
Sep 11, 2003, 4:12 PM
Post #17 of 61
(5952 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 1, 2003
Posts: 2176
|
In reply to: :roll: Your problem started when you cancled your order because you found the better deal you cheap f#$ing ba$tard. A deal is a deal and you pay your money and take your chances. Everybody is out there trying to make a liveing and you back out of a deal cause it wasen't the lowest price in town and then come crying to me :roll: What a loser. What do you do? go back to the freaking gas station and say, "take this gas back :evil: I don't wan't it caus it's 10 cents cheaper down the road" Get your head out of your arse and stop slandering a buisness because you are a cheap F#ck :roll:
I kind of thought the same thing at first, but before shooting my mouth off I went and checked their web site. They DO have a policy that allows cancellations within 24 hours. A deal isn't a deal when the vendor allows you to cancel it. Yeah, it sounds kind of cheap, too, but if the vendor has a policy allowing cancellations and fails to follow it, the vendor is at fault. If they don't want to allow cancellations, they shouldn't have a policy allowing them.
|
|
|
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Sep 11, 2003, 4:30 PM
Post #18 of 61
(5952 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 24, 2003
Posts: 2599
|
It's still way lame. No excuses to behave that way. Just because a buisness tells you that they don't accept cancelations after 24 hrs dose not give you the right to yank their chain. What a loser.
|
|
|
|
|
dalguard
Sep 11, 2003, 4:35 PM
Post #19 of 61
(5952 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 1, 2003
Posts: 239
|
As I posted over on rec.climbing where this same complaint was lodged, I personally had a very positive experience with K&R in which they went the extra mile in helping to get a Christmas present delivered on time.
|
|
|
|
|
redpoint73
Sep 11, 2003, 4:44 PM
Post #20 of 61
(5952 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 20, 2002
Posts: 1717
|
In reply to: You obviously don't have any idea what it takes to run a business.
You obviously don't either.
In reply to: Gee, I think since I am such a cheap SOB, I will sign up on RC.com today and try to ruin a business that someone worked their arse off to build up.
The proper way to run a good retail business is to offer good service and good products for a good price, so that you get REPEAT business. Not try to get a couple bucks for "restocking" fee just because someone cancelled an order.
Sure, if he was so concerned about he price, he should have researched a little more thoroughly. But the fact that the vendor told him the order was cancelled, and even confirmed it the next day, then STILL charged his CC and sent the merchandise -- THAT is bad business. A good business has reasonable policies, and sticks with them. A good business does NOT tell you one thing, then do the complete opposite of what they told you.
In reply to: Think about what you just did. You cost that business a lot of money so that you could save a few dollars.
Thats BS. Most retail businesses markup merchandise a MINIMUM of 50 percent -- often more. Sure, a lot of this goes to overhead and paying employees, but the companies still make out very well in the end. That's why they can afford to have huge clearances and sales, or sell overstock to discounters at the end of the season. A few bucks here and there to resolve a problem is purely trivial. Its EXPECTED that part of the money they make will go towards people returning goods.
In reply to: Businesses are set up to take orders, not cancel them. They take the call, they pull the materials, and get those materials to you asap. Once you get off the phone there are a lot of things that happen and every one of them costs the company money.
BS too. You're lucky if a mail order company can pick and pack your order within 24 hours, much less right after you hang up. Many vendors take longer than that. All businesses are "set up" to cancel orders. Its a fact of life, people cancel orders all the time. Its your right to do that, for whatever reason. I worked in the restaurant business for 10 years. People would cancel orders all the time, AFTER the food was cooked. We didn't bitch about it, we just threw the food out knowing that the customer would probably appreciate it and come back some time.
This is America, and the customer IS always right.
|
|
|
|
|
bluto
Sep 11, 2003, 4:47 PM
Post #21 of 61
(5952 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 17, 2002
Posts: 1525
|
I suspect that "Scott Morrison" has never run a business. If he had, he would appreciate the difficulties of turning a profit in today's ultra-competitive environment. If every consumer behaved in the fashion that he did, very few companies would be able to remain in existence and provide us with the products we desire. Placing and then cancelling an order cost the business in question real dollars in administrative costs, are they not entitled to some compensation for this? Failing to do the research before you placed the order, then slandering the company on a website is rather un-ethical behavior.
|
|
|
|
|
bsperes
Sep 11, 2003, 4:49 PM
Post #22 of 61
(5952 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 29, 2000
Posts: 292
|
Go experiences with Barrabes and Thinkmountain ordering from the US. Both times my orders were delivered within 3 business days.
|
|
|
|
|
robmcc
Sep 11, 2003, 5:11 PM
Post #23 of 61
(5952 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 1, 2003
Posts: 2176
|
In reply to: It's still way lame. No excuses to behave that way. Just because a buisness tells you that they don't accept cancelations after 24 hrs dose not give you the right to yank their chain. What a loser.
Actually an advertised policy that cancellations are accepted within 24 hours via phone or email DOES give you a right to "behave that way". That it gives you the legal right to behave that way is beyond question. It does, end of story. If you want to argue that it doesn't give you the ethical right, you're on your own. I disagree, but I'm not taking up that debate.
|
|
|
|
|
tarzan420
Sep 11, 2003, 5:12 PM
Post #24 of 61
(5952 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 19, 2002
Posts: 678
|
I'm not sure why I'm posting, as i don't think semorrison will actually check back to read this, but anyways...
One thing I have learned from buying climbing gear from various and sundry sources, is that small businesses are often willing to bargain some to make a sale. I personally know that K&R is no exception to this rule. Second to just doing the research ahead of time, the best thing to do would have been to call them up, and see if they're willing to haggle with you on the price (still better done before you actually make the purchase.)
Personally, i'd still do business with K&R gear. With a nod to full disclosure, I am slightly biased as 90% of the gear that I started climbing on was purchased from them.
|
|
|
|
|
redpoint73
Sep 11, 2003, 6:10 PM
Post #25 of 61
(5952 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 20, 2002
Posts: 1717
|
In reply to: If every consumer behaved in the fashion that he did, very few companies would be able to remain in existence and provide us with the products we desire.
Thats not realistic. Not every customer is going to return gear. Every customer has a RIGHT to (as long as they are following the vendors rules), but its the reality of the matter that few people do. Some companies like REI let you return gear regardless of how old it is, and give you a full refund with little or no questions asked. Obviously, they would never stay in business if every customer took advantage of this policy. It just doesn't work that way in the real world. 99 percent of your customers will buy stuff and never ever return anything. This more than covers the 1 percent that returns merchandise. Okay maybe not 99 percent, but you get the idea . . .
In reply to: Placing and then cancelling an order cost the business in question real dollars in administrative costs, are they not entitled to some compensation for this?
Cancelling a order (before it is packed/shipped) doesn't cost them a penny. What do you mean "administrative costs"??? LOL!!! Sounds like lawyer jargon for "we don't have a name for this charge cause we just made it up". Crediting back your card takes 2 seconds. The person who took your order, and cancels it is getting paid by the hour. The cost to the company is the same regardless of whether your place/cancel an order or not. That person probably would have just been sitting by the phone sipping coffee anyway. I doubt their phones are ringing off the hook with people on hold. If anything, there is a small charge for the CC transaction.
There will be some small costs if they actually have to ship the order, then take it back. But as I discussed before, this is part of the expected cost of doing retail business.
Are they entitled to compensation for their "administrative costs"? Regardless of what their policy says (if it even says anything), making the customer happy is paramount. Getting a few buck back to cover the shipping is nothing when compared to the potential future sales lost by not giving top service.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
