|
|
|
|
byloselhi
Oct 5, 2003, 11:28 AM
Post #26 of 91
(51045 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 13, 2003
Posts: 4
|
I believe we would all agree that Dano was one of the most gifted climbers in the history of sport. To comment on how he was an "idiot" to do what he did, thus leaving behind family is naive. He did what he did because he more than likely loved it.
In my opinion, climbing vertical rock was like simply running or hiking for Dano. I am sure his passion was intense for rock, but he was so good (onsight soloing 11's and 12's, etc) that he had become immune to the simple adrenaline that most of us feel when doing vertical rock. So, he took it a step further and began rope jumping, creating an activity with a better adrenaline rush. I don't believe it was anymore dangerous than the act of soloing or thin ice climbs, etc; it was just something different pushing his limits. The same general fire that keeps most of us climbing I would assume.
No one could come close to repeating the lines Dano climbed and the apparent intensity he had for the sport. Unfortunately, tradegy is a part of life. Death on the rope could happen to any of us. My wife undestands that and my 13mo old son will too, eventually. Risk is life. Without risk, life just wouldn't be as fun.
|
|
|
|
|
curt
Oct 5, 2003, 2:32 PM
Post #27 of 91
(51045 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 18043
|
Alan,
I agree with everything in your great post above except for this point:
In reply to: Dan Osman's death was not accidental. It was a direct consequence of his decisions and his choices.
Curt
|
|
|
|
|
climbfrog
Oct 5, 2003, 5:03 PM
Post #28 of 91
(51045 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 11, 2003
Posts: 101
|
In reply to: melekzek: very close. At the last moment he decided to change his jump and try to jump farther than he had gone before. He moved the rig to go off at a different angle then had previously been set. There is speculations as to what actually transpired during the jump, but most evidence does seem to indicate that by moving the jump location, an engineering problem occured which did allow the retrieval line and the jump line to become entamgled. Whether this was the direct cause of the line breaking or due to excess exposure to UV while awaiting the jump is arguable. Whatever the cause, it was ceratinly a shockingly tragic and untimely death of one of the most outrageous and talented guys of his era. I only hope that it is permissiable to question why he continuesd to pursue such a high-risk activity while not providing fro the impact of his own loss without being accused of being overly insensitive. And while I wholly support any efforts to help his surviving family members, I can't help but wonder if the whole thing can't help show some others that some risks may not be worth taking. |
|
|
|
|
climbfrog
Oct 5, 2003, 5:10 PM
Post #29 of 91
(51045 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 11, 2003
Posts: 101
|
Whatever the cause, it was ceratinly a shockingly tragic and untimely death of one of the most outrageous and talented guys of his era. I only hope that it is permissiable to question why he continuesd to pursue such a high-risk activity while not providing fro the impact of his own loss without being accused of being overly insensitive.
And while I wholly support any efforts to help his surviving family members, I can't help but wonder if the whole thing can't help show some others that some risks may not be worth taking.
Im kinda newe at this. Forgive me.
How is a death of the nature so "shockingly tragic"? I would like to believe that this activity was shockingly idiotic! However, people are into different things for different reasons. I do agree with the fact that others should think about risks that are worth taking.
Then again, isnt our sport as a whole very risky? We just need to do anything we possibly can to minimize those risks!
I hope I did not offend anyone eith this statement.
|
|
|
|
|
unabonger
Oct 7, 2003, 8:11 AM
Post #30 of 91
(51045 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 8, 2003
Posts: 2688
|
In reply to: For anyone Questioning his motive's and risk taking...COME ON!!! You can die sitting on the couch eating potato chips!!!
Actually, you can't.
Even if you could, how stupid are you to think that justifying more marginal risk because of other risk you accept is somehow logical?
Never knew Dan. Only from his exploits on video. And he sure seemed to take a lot of risks that were bigger than eating potato chips or driving a car. He climbed freezing cold waterfalls solo, he speed soloed, he soloed very difficult routes, he jumped off questionable rigs.
From my position, it seems reasonable to assume he was gifted, reckless, attention seeking, irresponsible...sure, its a sad loss, and one that I'd predicted just from watching him on film. Didn't take a genius to see that he probably wouldn't last long.
The UnaBonger
|
|
|
|
|
hugepedro
Oct 7, 2003, 8:55 AM
Post #31 of 91
(51044 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 28, 2002
Posts: 2875
|
In reply to: idiot!...selfish motives left a daughter fatherless.
Do you think the same of Astronauts? What about Alaskan fishermen (one of the most dangerous jobs)? What do you think about Alex Lowe?
I happen to think that people who inspire provide a valuable contribution to society, especially in our risk-averse, mommy culture.
What "rewards" do you deem worthy of risk, and of how much risk?
Hmmm, kinda seems to me like something that comes down to a personal decision, not something that I would condemn as you have.
Peter
|
|
|
|
|
bustloose
Oct 10, 2003, 9:46 AM
Post #32 of 91
(51044 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 10, 2003
Posts: 489
|
he jumped off questionable rigs.
hey bong boy.. how much do you know about rigging? pardon? what's that? thought so. STFU on things you know nothing about. the rig was not questionable he used identical jumping riggings countless times.
A very intense and talented man died, let him rest and respect his memory. leave the speculation to those who knew him and were directly involved.
|
|
|
|
|
hroldan
Oct 10, 2003, 10:25 AM
Post #33 of 91
(51044 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 6, 2002
Posts: 330
|
In reply to: idiot!...selfish motives left a daughter fatherless.
This is just a point of view of somebody who has no relation with Dan. My comment has nothing to do with if I'm against or in favor of such point of view or the direct way of expresing it.
I don't know your motives to start shooting like this but just consider this, all of us climbers and the ones who are parents...
I've heard comments of people who grew up without a father, because being journalist or photographers in risky situations, per example, and yes, they were good and they were working bla bla bla, but for some of this kids, is a trauma considering that it could have been avoided... I mean Why my father (mother) did that?? and i have to live without him (her)???
Some of these kids grow up and understand the passion for something, the resposibility of work and so on, but some of them don't and won't (maybe) because they don't see anything that force them to do that except that they wanted to do it. Others adults talk to their family as if kids of 4 years old could understand the implications.
I'm not trying to feed the flames, just consider that for some people, having a relative or somebody loved who practices a risky sport, is not an easy life, and as most of things, we most be careful because our acts have consequences not only on us directly, it affect others too...
|
|
|
|
|
climb_plastic
Oct 10, 2003, 10:31 AM
Post #34 of 91
(51044 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 24, 2003
Posts: 706
|
I thought you were saying that Donny Osmond was dead. I think he's doing Broadway musicals now.
|
|
|
|
|
jman
Oct 10, 2003, 10:51 AM
Post #35 of 91
(51044 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 28, 2002
Posts: 438
|
If you want to see the type of jump that he did that he was killed on, check out "Masters of Stone 5" cause it has a good tribute to him at the end of the video and shows him on a similar jump.
|
|
|
|
|
hroldan
Oct 10, 2003, 11:00 AM
Post #36 of 91
(51044 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 6, 2002
Posts: 330
|
is there any download available?
|
|
|
|
|
climbersam
Oct 10, 2003, 1:04 PM
Post #37 of 91
(51044 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 73
|
I can't help but think that regardless of his own motivations,
he didn't seem (to me) to think of the hardships and repercussions on his child and wife. He spent a LOT of money (I assume he bought it) on all that gear, travel, etc. Why didn't he get life insurance? I guess I'm being hypocritical, I have no insurance, but then I think what I'm doing is safe. Maybe I'm deluding myself.
|
|
|
|
|
climbingbum
Oct 10, 2003, 1:55 PM
Post #38 of 91
(51044 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2003
Posts: 134
|
In regards to life insurance: I'm assuming one of the main reasons, other then financial, is that there is no insurance company that would evern consider insuring him. If insurance companies did insure that high a risk, the premium would be rated so high that few people could afford it.
|
|
|
|
|
unabonger
Oct 10, 2003, 5:41 PM
Post #39 of 91
(51044 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 8, 2003
Posts: 2688
|
In reply to: he jumped off questionable rigs. hey bong boy.. how much do you know about rigging? pardon? what's that? thought so. STFU on things you know nothing about. the rig was not questionable he used identical jumping riggings countless times. A very intense and talented man died, let him rest and respect his memory. leave the speculation to those who knew him and were directly involved.
You know what I do know? IT BROKE! Just because something works a few dozen times doesn't make it secure. If it wasn't questionable why did it break? Why didn't other people jump on it. Of COURSE it was questionable.
I never said he wasn't talented or intense. Why are you so offended? I also never said he wasn't aware of the risks he was taking. I'm sure he was aware. That doesn't absolve him of responsibility for his own death and leaving behind a young one. So fuck you, moron. I stand by my statement, and I don't give a fuck if it offends his overly sensitive friends who want to idolize him: He was reckless and doomed by his obsession with risk taking. Maybe those left behind are so sensitive about this because they know it and feel guilty that they didn't intervene and shake him out of such risky behaviour.
The UnaBonger
|
|
|
|
|
curt
Oct 10, 2003, 6:53 PM
Post #40 of 91
(51044 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 18043
|
In reply to: ..........the rig was not questionable.........
Interesting observation--especially since it failed.
Curt
|
|
|
|
|
billcoe_
Oct 10, 2003, 8:08 PM
Post #41 of 91
(51043 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 30, 2002
Posts: 4593
|
I think this may be the strangest damn thing. I tend to agree with every one of you. (Except perhaps folks telling others to STFU)
Perhaps that was what Dan O left us. The fact that there was a lot of different conflicting ideas on how we should each chose to live. There are many angles to this, but the bottom line is that the world saw something incredible and perhaps arguabley increadibly stupid and amazing at the same time, and we are the poorer for not having him around now.
I'm sure his friends and family feel this loss very strongly, and that pretty much makes the rest of us sad and confused.
Bill
|
|
|
|
|
climber_dave
Oct 10, 2003, 8:16 PM
Post #42 of 91
(51043 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 26, 2003
Posts: 21
|
In reply to: There are many angles to this, but the bottom line is that the world saw something incredible and perhaps arguabley increadibly stupid and amazing at the same time, and we are the poorer for not having him around now. Bill |
|
|
|
|
flamer
Oct 10, 2003, 8:48 PM
Post #43 of 91
(51043 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 22, 2002
Posts: 2955
|
In reply to: Why didn't other people jump on it. The UnaBonger
They did ALOT of people jumped on this rig. The thing probably held over 2 dozen jumps. They frequently changed the bottom 2 jump ropes because they took the most stress.
When the accident occured there was a new viarable added to the system. Whether you believe it was nylon rubbing on nylon that was the cause, or the knots hitting the pulley(on the retreival line). This was something the rig was not designed for and was a fatal miscalulation made by Mr. Osman.
We all make mistakes, most of us don't play in the realm where a mistake can cost you your life.
I also agree with what Billcoe said.
There have been lot's of good thing's said here, regardless of your opinion.
josh
|
|
|
|
|
mesomorf
Oct 10, 2003, 9:10 PM
Post #45 of 91
(51043 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 3, 2002
Posts: 397
|
In reply to: We all make mistakes, most of us don't play in the realm where a mistake can cost you your life.
Who are you trying to kid? Every day, each of us does things where a mistake can cost you your life, climbers and nonclimbers alike.
Most of our activites aren't as dramatic as Osman's, that's the only difference.
It's the drama and the un-commonness of Osman's activities that make them seem foolish to the armchair critics.
|
|
|
|
|
curt
Oct 10, 2003, 9:24 PM
Post #46 of 91
(51043 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 18043
|
In reply to: Who are you trying to kid? Every day, each of us does things where a mistake can cost you your life, climbers and nonclimbers alike.
Curt
|
|
|
|
|
bustloose
Oct 14, 2003, 7:47 AM
Post #47 of 91
(51043 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 10, 2003
Posts: 489
|
In reply to: In reply to: he jumped off questionable rigs. hey bong boy.. how much do you know about rigging? pardon? what's that? thought so. STFU on things you know nothing about. the rig was not questionable he used identical jumping riggings countless times. A very intense and talented man died, let him rest and respect his memory. leave the speculation to those who knew him and were directly involved. You know what I do know? IT BROKE! Just because something works a few dozen times doesn't make it secure. If it wasn't questionable why did it break? Why didn't other people jump on it. Of COURSE it was questionable. I never said he wasn't talented or intense. Why are you so offended? I also never said he wasn't aware of the risks he was taking. I'm sure he was aware. That doesn't absolve him of responsibility for his own death and leaving behind a young one. So f--- you, moron. I stand by my statement, and I don't give a f--- if it offends his overly sensitive friends who want to idolize him: He was reckless and doomed by his obsession with risk taking. Maybe those left behind are so sensitive about this because they know it and feel guilty that they didn't intervene and shake him out of such risky behaviour. The UnaBonger
it's a simple question of respect, bonger brain. you don't have to have idolized someone to respect their passing. Some people out there do dangerous things, either for a living, or for fun. are you going to start ragging on firemen? what about people who race cars? cyclists? parachutists? every single person who steps onto everest? accidents happen. when a parachute does not open, do you call it questionable? no? then why did it fail? what about biners? ever seen a biner break? is it questionable? hmm? then why did it fail?
i say again, shut your useless trap and let him rest in peace.
|
|
|
|
|
deleted
Deleted
Oct 14, 2003, 8:08 AM
Post #48 of 91
(50991 views)
Shortcut
Registered:
Posts:
|
bustloose --
perhaps you should aquaint yourself with the facts pertaining to dan osman's death. specifically the details pertaining to his final rig. i DO happen to know rigging, and most authorities agree he might as well have held a loaded gun to his head and pulled the trigger.
dan osman was a talented climber. dan osman was also reckless. and now dan osman is very dead.
now ... are we smart enough to see the correlation?
|
|
|
|
|
leaverbiner
Oct 14, 2003, 8:32 AM
Post #49 of 91
(51043 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 18, 2002
Posts: 482
|
No question in my mind, Dan Osman was talented, brave, and inspiring to many climbers . .. But I also believe that Dan was an irresponsible publicity and thrill seeker. I have absolutely no beef with the fact that Dan enjoyed the adventures he did . . . to each their own, but when your adventure seeking and unending craving for adrenaline starts to infringe upon others that is where I believe that we as a society have a right to be judgmental and dissaproving . . . My problem with this whole thread and I guess more so with the way Dan lead his life is that he did not provide for his family, particularly his daughter. Dan's wife had a choice, she knew the life that Dan was living and accepted that. Their daughter did not have this choice . . . I understand Dan was not likely capable of getting any type of life insurance because of his chosen lifestyle, but he could certainly have invested in his daughter's future and made sure that when his lifestyle caught up with him, as it was inevitably going to, his daughter would be provided for. He did not. Upon Dan's death, caring friends, the climbing community (out of respect and thanks for Dan's contributions) and society in general are doing what Dan should have been; providing for Dan's child. It is an outpouring of support that is a wonderful testament to the climbing community and society in general, but in this case - where the risks and the near certainty of an eventual failure or accident were known - it was a complete lack of responsibility to fail to plan for your child. I feel incredibly sad for dan's daughter . . . she lost her father. I only wish that she could simply cherish his memory and not have had to worry about providing for her future at the same time.
Again, I believe that Dan was free to live the life he chose, but when you take significant and calculated risks for the simple enjoyment of it, you have a responsibility to those dependent upon you.
Rest in peace Dan and may your family remember only your smiling face and know the warmth of the love that the community had for you.
|
|
|
|
|
team_tcoc
Jan 17, 2004, 8:59 PM
Post #50 of 91
(51043 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 17, 2004
Posts: 2
|
Dan Osman was not an idiot for what he did. I find it pretty dang disrespectful to say he was, because he was a respectful and well respected climber. Someone may ask him, "Dan, why did you go up there to die?" But if the truth be known, he didn't go up there to die, he went up there to LIVE! If I were to die in any way, I would hope that it would be in a similar way as Dan, because he died doing what he loved.
|
|
|
|
|
|
