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squish
Oct 7, 2003, 10:27 PM
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In reply to: What ever you say, PU$$Y!!! ... Oh, and yes I do talk about masterbation....
Boy, that was funny!
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ricardol
Oct 7, 2003, 10:38 PM
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i was directing my post to those who thought talking about soloing was taboo .. not anyone in particular ..
.. i dont see the contradictions in my post -- i said it was personal -- nothing new there .. and that it weirded people out .. but thats their problem .. i am not responsible for how you or anyone else on this site feels ...
-- ricardo
In reply to: In reply to: you guys are so full of sh*t .. congrats on the solo dude -- have fun and be safe .. .. so many vocal people on this site are safety nazis .. they dont respect that everyone has different levels of acceptable risk .. .. soloing is a personal choice, and yes most people get very weirded out when you talk about it .. but thats their problem .. -- it doesn't get any pure than a climb without a rope. -- i've yet to commit 100% to that .. on my solo's i've always brought the gear to aid through the crux moves. (A0) Your reply misses my point completely and contradicts itself in so many places that I don't know where to start. I'm not against soloing and I'm not a safety nazi. I've soloed enough to have an opinion, and I'm not against it. I take issue with the attitude that the original poster seems to have towards soloing. Yeah, it's only 5.3, what's the big deal, right? Attitude. Being too casual about it is a big deal, IMHO, and looking for recognition and praise in soloing doesn't look healthy. I never said "don't do it you're gonna die." I don't think I even raised the word "dangerous" or "unsafe" in my entire post, because that is not the point. Don't be daft. We all know what the game is about, and nobody was disputing that it's a personal choice. I was responding to those who were arguing about whether or not one should kiss-and-tell their solo experiences. |
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ricardol
Oct 7, 2003, 10:39 PM
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oh -- and
rock on flamer .. that was a great response..
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jcinco
Oct 7, 2003, 10:59 PM
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I can't recommend soloing but it is a vital part of the climbing universe and always will be. A blanket statement like, "soloing is stupid" is completely off-base. Its all about your personal comfort level as well as having a thorough understanding of your abilities and limits.
Heck, non-climbers are going to think people who climb class 3 scrambling routes without a rope are crazy and asking for death... just climb a non-standard route on a 14er with an easy walk-up on a busy summer weekend and you'll see what I mean. So what's so stupid about a 5.11 trad climber onsight soloing 5.8, especially at a climbing area with little loose rock where you have the style wired? Since a climber with that ability probably hasn't fallen at that grade since their first month of climbing, it becomes a mind game... more a well calculated test of mental sharpness than anything. Risky, yes (but what worthwhile endeavor isn't?). Stupid, no.
The really dangerous (some may even say stupid) part comes in when you are soloing near your limit. This is the trick with soloing. As you gain more experience, this type of soloing becomes more and more seductive. It is this type of soloing which has led to virtually all soloing accidents, as well as the deaths of some very high profile climbers.
In reply to: .. on my solo's i've always brought the gear to aid through the crux moves. (A0)
This seems to me like a pretty good example. If you are soloing routes where you need gear to yard through the cruxes, then you are probably soloing dangerously close to your limit. I'll leave it at that...
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couch_climber
Oct 7, 2003, 11:00 PM
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Nice job on the solo. In my opinion the purest form of climbing.
Be safe.
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braon
Oct 7, 2003, 11:01 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Not impressed. Driving is more dangerous than soloing 5.3. Who falls on 5.3? A 5.2 climber.
Will you guys stop making fun of me already? :cry: :cry:
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nagatana
Oct 7, 2003, 11:09 PM
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When people say "solo," do they mean that the climbed the route alone, or does it mean that they did it alone and without gear?
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ricardol
Oct 7, 2003, 11:10 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: .. on my solo's i've always brought the gear to aid through the crux moves. (A0) This seems to me like a pretty good example. If you are soloing routes where you need gear to yard through the cruxes, then you are probably soloing dangerously close to your limit. I'll leave it at that...
.. well without being there .. its easy to judge why someone does something .. maybe i brught it for insurance .. maybe in case i decided to rest .. or maybe i'm just not ready to commit 100% to the solo .. and just want to solo everything else but the crux ..
.. the gear placements is A1 .. bomber .. so no danger on pulling on a piece to get through the 5.6 move ..
.. the best thing somene has said about soloing on this thread is that its a test of knowing yourself and your limits .. and being able to judge your level of commitment at that moment.
-- ricardo
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nagatana
Oct 7, 2003, 11:11 PM
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Is "solo" generally meant as "free solo" 'round here, or does he just mean alone?
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alpnclmbr1
Oct 7, 2003, 11:14 PM
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Cardboarddog
Been climbing for three months and doesn’t have a clue about what’s what. In the real world your solo would be an obligatory solo downclimb.
Ricardol
Apparently hasn’t ever free soloed a route. (if you have gear with you your not soloing)
Squish
A voice of reason that sounds like it is based on some real experience in the topic of this debate.
Flamer
Talks like a big shit but given his attitude I would have to say he doesn’t solo very much other then mabye speed soloing 5.0D Squish made a lot of very valid points which obviously went right over your head. "Competitive free soloing" on anything harder then a downclimb is idiotic and pretty much a self correcting idiocy as you will soon be dead.
By far the biggest trick to free soloing is keeping your motivations straight. This is true in the beginning and becomes even more important as you progress down that path. The "taboo" does get overdone on this site to a certain extent, but there is an aspect of it that is based on realistic experiences from people who have been there done that.
A comment to all the people that say they would never solo because it is to dangerous: your friggin deluding yourself because everyone who rock climbs free solo’s. Dragging a rope along doesn’t change the reality that sometimes the protection it offers is just an illusion..
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johnnord
Oct 7, 2003, 11:29 PM
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I have mixed feelings about soloing. When I was younger I would do some in front of even younger climbers. Obviously an immature ego thing. I watch with envy as soloists pass me on Walk on the Wild Side in JTree. I fantasize soloing it myself and then see myself smearing off the 5.8 crux move 100 feet above the deck. It's obviously not for me.
What I am clear about is "talking about it." This is where a climber can talk about any climbing issue. The only dangers are the ignorant and the flamers. However, there are more than enough knowledgeable and compassionate participants to balance that out. This is a forum for the exchange of ideas about climbing. There should be no taboos. If it were a forum about sexuality, masterbation would be an ok topic too.
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ricardol
Oct 7, 2003, 11:34 PM
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In reply to: Ricardol Apparently hasn’t ever free soloed a route. (if you have gear with you your not soloing) ..
.. umm -- good thing i dont need you to validate my climbing ..
-- ricardo
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alpinerock
Oct 7, 2003, 11:53 PM
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congratulations, if you want to free solo routes that is a personal decesion, all I'll say is that i've done it and it has been on of the most powerful experiances of my life, beware of it it's addicting, and never recomend it to someone else, it is their desicion
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corpse
Oct 7, 2003, 11:58 PM
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Personally, FOR ME, I think free-soloing is dumb - FOR ME. I have response for all levels of climbing. In some ways, I wish I had the cajones (or stupidness, depending who you ask) to freesolo or something. For me, the highest level of risk I'm willing to take is trad climbing. I don't see anything wrong with him "spraying" about his first solo. I don't consider it spraying. Good thing I didn't post in the public forum on my first lead, cuz 1/2 of you would have bashed me.
And if someone that is dumb figures that free-soloing is for them based on what someone SAYS, then they deserve what they get. People need to learn about things and educate themselves before they get into smething. And for freesoloing, it's pretty simple - you climb - and if you fall - you die. As long as that is understood, leave people be.
I don't think his friends are gonna "stop" him. Is that like how our parents tried "stopping" us from our underage drinking? puh-leeze!! They lectured and badgered, and those are usually the parents that had to clean the puke off their living room floor cuz their kid came home blasted :) (cept my dad made me clean it up after I was done puking, I soooo didn't like that).
Oh yeah, if like, I went to the supermarket, went to the produce isle and slipped her my cucumber, would I be spraying? hell yeah.. But rightly so, becuase I'd be way proud of myself :)
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cardboarddog
Oct 8, 2003, 12:03 AM
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In reply to: Cardboarddog Been climbing for three months and doesn’t have a clue about what’s what. In the real world your solo would be an obligatory solo downclimb. Ricardol Apparently hasn’t ever free soloed a route. (if you have gear with you your not soloing) Squish A voice of reason that sounds like it is based on some real experience in the topic of this debate. Flamer Talks like a big s--- but given his attitude I would have to say he doesn’t solo very much other then mabye speed soloing 5.0D Squish made a lot of very valid points which obviously went right over your head. "Competitive free soloing" on anything harder then a downclimb is idiotic and pretty much a self correcting idiocy as you will soon be dead. By far the biggest trick to free soloing is keeping your motivations straight. This is true in the beginning and becomes even more important as you progress down that path. The "taboo" does get overdone on this site to a certain extent, but there is an aspect of it that is based on realistic experiences from people who have been there done that. A comment to all the people that say they would never solo because it is to dangerous: your friggin deluding yourself because everyone who rock climbs free solo’s. Dragging a rope along doesn’t change the reality that sometimes the protection it offers is just an illusion..
Ahh..the voice of reason. I remember taking a friend of mine climbing, horseman was his first, only to get to the bottom to find someone down climbing what I just climbed with about 7 pieces of protection. He was a much much stronger climber than I.
However, not at all the point. An obligatory down climb? I may be somewhat new, but I know enough to know that it is more mental perserverance than skill level. Can you lead at the same level you can second? Or TR? Yeah I didn't think so. Most climbers can't. I felt the need to overcome what is a mental block by getting past the fact that I had no protection even though I knew there was no way in hell I was going to fall. Thats why I posted. Because I did that.
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thinksinpictures
Oct 8, 2003, 1:46 AM
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In reply to: What ever you say, PU$$Y!!! I've got news for you, PEOPLE DIE. People die everyday in every possible way. So what? You all cling to life, WHY? You can do everythihng as safe as you want and you will still die, maybe even "before your time". What did it get you? DEAD!!! Competition in soloing? HELL YEAH! My buddies and I swap times on speed solo's all the time...it's fun we enjoy it. Personal etiquette? Who's; yours? Guess what if you don't like hearing about it tough $h1T!! Why did you click on this thread? Did you need to protect your "curious apes"?? You are correct soloing is a deeply personal thing and that include's talking about it, if you so desire. We all make our own choice's if you don't like someone else's- TOO BAD!! cardboarddog: I enjoyed hearing about your first solo! I'm glad you enjoyed it! HAVE FUN!!! josh Oh, and yes I do talk about masterbation....
You know, I was of the opinion that soloing isn't something one should talk about in order to avoid encouraging less experienced/knowledgable climbers.
I've changed my mind--not due to persuasive arguments, mind you.
I believe that the best way to discourage soloing is to allow people like this to talk about it as much as they want.
More of a "this could happen to you" sort of thing.
Disclaimer: soloing is extremely dangerous and I highly discourage it. Unless you sound like this guy.
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alpnclmbr1
Oct 8, 2003, 1:49 AM
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In reply to: Ahh..the voice of reason. I remember taking a friend of mine climbing, horseman was his first, only to get to the bottom to find someone down climbing what I just climbed with about 7 pieces of protection. He was a much much stronger climber than I. However, not at all the point. An obligatory down climb? I may be somewhat new, but I know enough to know that it is more mental perserverance than skill level. Can you lead at the same level you can second? Or TR? Yeah I didn't think so. Most climbers can't.
A basic rule of thumb for soloing is not to solo anything you cannot downclimb. All of my first solos were real or virtual obligatory downclimbs.
Agreed that soloing is a mental game not a physical one. One caveat to that is that sometimes people trip or break things off, a lot of mileage is the best thing to give yourself an earned sense of confidence that your not going to do this. The other thing is the risk of freaking out, guaranteed that at some point this will happen, probably with a rope on at first.
In reply to: I felt the need to overcome what is a mental block by getting past the fact that I had no protection even though I knew there was no way in hell I was going to fall. Thats why I posted. Because I did that.
This is a good thing, really it is what is going to keep you safe in climbing, much more so than the gear. I just wouldn’t make a habit of it for a while.
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flamer
Oct 8, 2003, 2:19 AM
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In reply to: Flamer Talks like a big s--- but given his attitude I would have to say he doesn’t solo very much other then mabye speed soloing 5.0D Squish made a lot of very valid points which obviously went right over your head. "Competitive free soloing" on anything harder then a downclimb is idiotic and pretty much a self correcting idiocy as you will soon be dead.
WOW! Do you know me?? Or are you just making generic assumption's because I'm passionate about the way I feel??
"Waaa....you'll be dead soon"
At least I lived first...
josh
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flamer
Oct 8, 2003, 2:21 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: What ever you say, PU$$Y!!! ... Oh, and yes I do talk about masterbation.... Anyone care to get Freudian with flamer's post? Boy, that was funny!
Hmmm....since I called you a PU$$Y...does that mean I want to F**K you?
COME TOO DADDY, CREAMPUFF!
josh
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sbclimber
Oct 8, 2003, 2:21 AM
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In reply to: Its not what you do for living, its what you do to feel alive.
Can't you see it now? One of those motivational posters with a picture of a guy soloing and this qoute below it. Brilliant!
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flamer
Oct 8, 2003, 2:25 AM
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In reply to: You know, I was of the opinion that soloing isn't something one should talk about in order to avoid encouraging less experienced/knowledgable climbers. I've changed my mind--not due to persuasive arguments, mind you. I believe that the best way to discourage soloing is to allow people like this to talk about it as much as they want. More of a "this could happen to you" sort of thing. Disclaimer: soloing is extremely dangerous and I highly discourage it. Unless you sound like this guy.
WOW you've been climbing for a little over a year now!!! Thanks for giving me the perfect opportunity to use my new internet slang term....STFU-NooB!!
I wonder will you even be climbing in a year? Or will you move on to the next cool thing....kisses
josh
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alpnclmbr1
Oct 8, 2003, 3:15 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Flamer Talks like a big s--- but given his attitude I would have to say he doesn’t solo very much other then mabye speed soloing 5.0D Squish made a lot of very valid points which obviously went right over your head. "Competitive free soloing" on anything harder then a downclimb is idiotic and pretty much a self correcting idiocy as you will soon be dead. WOW! Do you know me?? Or are you just making generic assumption's because I'm passionate about the way I feel?? "Waaa....you'll be dead soon" At least I lived first... josh
No I don't know you, all I can do is base my conception of you on what you wrote in this thread. Based on that, I get the impression that you do not solo a lot as your attitude is totally contrary to the attitude of all the free soloers that I have known over the years.
Being passionate about soloing is something I can relate to. Your attitude isn't something I can relate to at all.
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flamer
Oct 8, 2003, 3:47 AM
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In reply to: No I don't know you, all I can do is base my conception of you on what you wrote in this thread. Based on that, I get the impression that you do not solo a lot as your attitude is totally contrary to the attitude of all the free soloers that I have known over the years. Being passionate about soloing is something I can relate to. Your attitude isn't something I can relate to at all.
Nope never soloed a single pitch(you got me)....Just remember, not all climber's are silly little pussy's...
josh
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fear
Oct 8, 2003, 4:30 AM
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You pu$$ies think soloing some easy 5.3 on a good day is any more dangerous than a million other climbing related feats? Leading multipitch thin WI 5+? Any one of a thousand run-out, crappy-rock, mixed alpine horrorfests?? Climbing 5.7+ above 6000m in plastic boots with a pack?
Comon. No one whines about those and they get all the press....
-Fear
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dynoguy
Oct 8, 2003, 4:50 AM
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Having no soloing experience make of this what you will. I believe telling people that you solo is awfully inconsiderate. Hypothesize with me, lets say you are soloing and you get killed, a good possibility. Big deal right? You knew that risks and mentally calculated that the rewards were greater. No problem there. But now lets look at the loved ones left behind. They will all surely be left with a horrible sense of guilt. A "Maybe we should have stopped him" mentallity. That is something pretty tough to live with. Solo if you accept the risk and do it with the right motivation, but don't leave loved ones with the guilt.
I don't know if that makes any sense, just my two cents.
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