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annandjese
Oct 24, 2003, 5:04 AM
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Quick note,
The event on saturday is very informal. Just some friends and family getting together. Anyone is invited. 11 am Humber Park.
Also, I made a typo on Kelly Tufo's name one time. Sorry
Jesse
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vivalargo
Oct 24, 2003, 4:46 PM
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Friends,
In reading over the review of the anchor configuration -- although the facts are still not firmly established -- it looks like the entire anchor (which failed) was built on SLCD's (spring loaded camming devices). Opinions will pour in about the relative safety/danger of using only SLCD's for a primary anchor, and I suspect that in light of the fact that the cams were Camalot's, that brand will take some heat as well. But for whatever my opinion is worth, I believe the problem is not with Camalots, rather with rigging any primary anchor only with SLCD's. Because SLCD's can pivot under a shockload, I have always been terrified of rigging a anchor exclusively from said units. I always try and get a big taper or Hex in or better yet, a natural anchor. Not always possible, but the recent tradegy would seem to suggest we should try whenever possible.
JL
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chad
Oct 24, 2003, 5:47 PM
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In reply to: David was a co-worker of mine and someone who I shared more than a few laughs with. He will be deeply missed. I am not a climber myself but I understand the camaraderie and sense of family you all have for each other so I thought I'd pass along this info: Memorial Services for David Kellogg Wednesday October 29 at 10 AM Solana Beach Presbyterian Church 120 Stevens Avenue Solana Beach, CA 92075 Donations, in lieu of flowers, can be sent to: Nicolas Dylan Kellogg College Fund C/o USA Federal Credit Union 9889 Erma Road San Diego, CA 92131 A/C # 719100 Cards and letters can be sent to his home address: 6320 Rustic Drive San Diego, CA 92139 "KIT come quick I need you"
for David
http://img.villagephotos.com/...est_picture_ever.jpg
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adamzappal
Oct 24, 2003, 9:29 PM
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I was not able to see if there was gear between the belayer (Dave) and the person climbing (Kelly). I think Meg found Daves ID in his pack at the base. Ryan made it up to the ledge about 5 minutes after Dave passed away; Ryan made an anchor toward the back of the ledge then founds Kelly’s ID right around there was also a Nalgine standing upside down fully filled with water with a broken loop at the rear of the ledge near a blue piece of foam from Dave’s helmet. Also there was an REI/Wales bent-gate carabiner not to far from this stuff, laying there all by itself.
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howdyjeff
Oct 24, 2003, 11:39 PM
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Thanks again for your commentary, John. I agree completely with what you say about the importance of getting a combination of types of gear in at a belay. Of course I would agree: you wrote the book on it! Unfortunately, as you also suggested before, there are not too many good nut or hex placements to be had on the upper pitches of the routes in that vicinity.
Anyway, if my memory serves me, the gear sizes Adam reported are consistent with the placements available at the bottom of pitch three on The Step. I think the placements there, however, are pretty much downward facing, though perhaps angled a bit to the side, which might make them susceptible to levering out under such force. But my concern would, again, be more with the rock quality there than anything else. In that case, more good advice would be also to choose a few separate cracks or features to use when building an anchor. Also, of course, always equalize the anchor to limit the force on any one piece of gear and on the rock itself, which I knew Dave did religiously and which he seems to have done in this case.
John’s warning about cams pivoting is extremely well said if the belay was from the block at the top of that pitch. I’ve seen many such situations where climbers just shove a couple cams down head first behind a block they are sitting on, often not thinking about whether downward pull will rotate the cams out, whether their attachment to the anchor is too far extended, or even whether the block is detached and not massive enough to hold such placements. Again I would definitely recommend traversing left at the top of pitch three, to the tree near White Maiden, for a bomber belay there.
I would also like to hope, and think that it is probably the case anyway knowing many of them myself, that the folks involved in this do not blame the gear, and, really, do not look for “blame,” per se, anywhere.
Safety in climbing is only in part a matter of the physical gear. But as John suggests, also involved are such things as technique, habit, judgment, etc. And in the end, the consequences of climbing are a matter of the climbers involved themselves taking full personal responsibility for choosing to climb every time they tie in. Dave did.
This means even taking personal responsibility, or at least not blaming anyone, for things that may happen that are entirely unpredictable and out of a climber’s control. This includes choosing to climb with a partner whose own choices for themself may often in some unforeseen way effect you. To take another example, think about a situation involving rock accidentally knocked down on climbers below by a party above them. There is no malicious intent here. And even perhaps if there were some carelessness, climbers would tend to understand this as an accident. Hopefully no one would be seriously hurt by it, but the lesson would be simply to be more careful next time, because now we have experienced firsthand the results of such a moment of thoughtlessness. It is interesting to note that this is very different from what tends to happen in the city, for example, if someone accidentally drops a brick on your head from a building they are working on. Our culture today is so used to looking somewhere for blame. But in general this attitude is very far from the spirit of climbing, and I think that’s a good thing.
So, for the non-climbers reading this and trying to understand, after saying all this, why would a climber want to put themself in a situation where unpredictable things can happen that are even sometimes out of their control? Well, I’d like to suggest, first of all, that accidents like this one, assuming a long factor two fall directly onto the belay, are actually pretty rare, as far as I can tell. Climbs are established and situations set up so that such a serious fall is almost always avoidable. Not necessarily so perhaps, if one is not extremely careful, on pitch three of The Step. I now feel very lucky myself to have never taken a leader fall there. I personally find myself more often afraid for my life racing at top speed sometimes along with rush hour traffic in San Diego than I do in most climbing situations. But I’m not saying that such accidents don’t happen. And it’s important for climbers not to forget that, because that is one of the things that leads to complacency.
I mentioned earlier that as climbers we need to try to communicate to those outside the climbing community why we would choose to do such a thing as climbing, to help them better understand a situation like this. Not everyone may be as understanding as Kelly’s brother Marc in telling us to “load up our gear and go.” And by now, I think you’ve probably noticed that just about everything I’ve tried to write on this thread is also in part my attempt to provide a eulogy for Dave and Kelly. So bear with me if I wax poetic. I can’t speak for all climbers, but for myself and for what I knew of Dave, we climbed together in part to challenge ourselves to apply skill, experience, and judgment to situations that we could often largely control, to meet and overcome the challenge of unpredictability that each new route posed, and to do what we could to rise to the occasion when something more powerful threw everything it could at us.
These are challenges that society has largely tried to eliminate from elsewhere in our lives, which makes it a safer place perhaps, but also fairly predictable, homogeneous, and a little alienating sometimes to a human spirit, like Dave’s I think, that truly lived and shined in adventure. It is this spirit of adventure, the beauty and spirituality of the natural settings, the art of technique and the craft of tools, the perfection of style, the feel of flow in climbing, the very direct and real participation in the tradition of climbing history, the unique bond of trust and friendship among climbers, and other such rare things that drove Dave and Kelly, and continues to drive many other climbers I know, to climb.
Jeff
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thegreytradster
Oct 25, 2003, 12:38 AM
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Accidents in the climbing world seem to be generally viewed by the climbing community in three broadly divided classifications.
1.Boy I'd never do anything that stupid. (self explanatory)
2.Their number was up. (unforseen rockfall, lightning etc.)
3.There but for the grace of God go I. (no obvious mistake or external cause)
This one falls into the last group.
The 24K or so views up to this point reflect that. We all want to understand what really happened, as well as express our sorrow and support.
I hope that information on the details continues to be forthcoming.
It seems like catastrophic belay failures are becoming increasingly common and happening at about six month intervals some where in N. America. Maybe this is just a personal observation and not statistically valid or a function of more participants in the sport. Can someone that is really into the statistics can fill us in on that?
This has been one of the most crowded years at Tahquitz that I remember. The weekend before, my partner and I were downing a beer in the parking lot after what we assumed would be the last day of the season before switching to Josh. I remarked that not only had we had a better season than last for a couple of old guys. Maybe there was still some years left in us. But, it had been a good season for everyone else with only a few serious injurys for as crowded as it had been. Feel bad about thinking that now.
One other thing that needs to be clarified; one post by a witness indicated that the belayer was tied directly to the anchor with a sling/cord. If this is true, and he wasn't tied in with the climbing rope an important potential shock reducing component of the belay chain was missing. Whatever happened it was a disaster composed of small details and it will benefit us all to understand what they were.
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bdwalsh
Oct 25, 2003, 12:50 AM
Post #132 of 221
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Dave was my best friend. I met him in High School over 15 years ago. We became good friends during college at Humboldt State University. We spent most of the nineties there, and were roommates for several of those years. During that time, he became the closest friend that I've ever had. When I moved back to San Diego, he soon followed, and we once again lived together for a few more years, along with his brother, Marcus.
When I phoned Marcus today, he told me about this forum. He warned me to wait until after work today to read it, that it would take over an hour to read it all. I couldn't help myself. Due to the desire to learn more about the circumstances, I've spent almost all day reading...
I really want to thank you all for sharing your observations, opinions, and stories. It has really helped me to cope with my friends death. I especially want to thank all of you who helped with his recovery that day. Not being a climber, your insights have helped me to better understand the sport that was his passion.
Dave always told me that there were two things in life that he really loved: climbing and his son Nicolas, in no particular order. My thoughts go out to Dave's girlfriend Florabel and son Nicolas.
I also want to thank Jeff for helping Florabel on Monday, and for his thoughtful postings. Dave mentioned you often.
Dave was always trying to get me to come climbing with him. He would try to get me to come camping at Joshua Tree, so I could meet all of his climbing buddies. I wish now that I had. I was always afraid to tell him that I'm afraid of heights, and more specifically falls.
Even though he had many friends, he still found time away from climbing and being with his son to spend time with each of them. He was always there to pull me out of the house to go SCUBA Diving or Disc Golfing. I'm really going to miss hearing his voice on my answering machine, and as he came through the gate in my backyard, calling me by my nickname "Big Daddy" Brian Walsh!
I apologize for getting so personal here. If you knew Dave, you'd understand why. He had such a magnanimous personality.
All week I've been reminded of a poem that we both heard Ken Kesey read during a Grateful Dead concert, in homage to his fallen friend Bill Graham. It was written by E.E. Cummings:
Buffalo Bill's
defunct
who used to
ride a watersmooth-silver
stallion
and break onetwothreefourfive clay pidgeons just like that
Jesus
he was a handsome man
and what i want to know is
how do you like your blue-eyed boy now
mr. death?
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robmcc
Oct 25, 2003, 1:16 AM
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In reply to: I apologize for getting so personal here. If you knew Dave, you'd understand why. He had such a magnanimous personality.
I can't speak for anyone else, but as far as I'm concerned you have nothing to apologise for. Too often things like this happen. Accident reports. Names, dates, and facts.. Sterile. Ironic though it may be, posts like yours have brought these guys, who I'll never meet, to life for me. Something which isn't without a measure of pain under the circumstances, but I'm glad to know them in this small way.
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moabbeth
Oct 25, 2003, 1:24 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: I apologize for getting so personal here. If you knew Dave, you'd understand why. He had such a magnanimous personality. I can't speak for anyone else, but as far as I'm concerned you have nothing to apologise for. Too often things like this happen. Accident reports. Names, dates, and facts.. Sterile. Ironic though it may be, posts like yours have brought these guys, who I'll never meet, to life for me. Something which isn't without a measure of pain under the circumstances, but I'm glad to know them in this small way.
Very well said. I feel the same way. I keep coming back to this thread constantly...and while it's painful in the reasons that it's even here, it's also incredibly inspirational in so many ways. Especially the recollections of Kelly and Dave's friends. Makes me wish I'd had the pleasure of climbing with them, they sound like remarkable individuals.
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socalclimber
Oct 25, 2003, 1:25 AM
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bdwalsh,
There is no need to appologize. There are a number of us who know precisely how you feel. Your friend died doing something he loved, surrounded by people who had his passion for climbing. This particular thread has been wonderful in terms of support. This is exactly what the climbing community is all about.
Best wishes to you.
Robert
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lucytufo
Oct 27, 2003, 12:54 AM
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Hi, I am Christine the sister in law of Kelly Tufo. I wanted to thank all who were part of the team who aided Kelly and David after their fall. Its been hard to read all the comments and has taken awhile to do so. His brother Lane and our entire family are amazed at the friends Kelly had within the climbing community. Thank you for taking such good care when we could not be there to do so. He was an awesome brother, friend and uncle to our four children. He made us feel incredibley special and will be forever missed and loved. Most of all never forgotten. Each of us has many special memorries of Kelly and we thank all of you for adding to them with your personal storries. We know Kelly loved everything that had to do with outdoors and he did them all with such passion. He never took anything light that had to do with the outdoors and the safety of others. Kelly my man I love you and will miss you. All our prayers are with you all and especially Daves family as we all try to find comfort in these very hard times.
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jess
Oct 27, 2003, 2:50 PM
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Of the handful of times I had met Dave, we bouldered at Santee one of them. This just goes to show you how much he loved climbing. Any time someone dies at such a young age it makes you really take a step back and think about life, those you love, and the time you spend with them. Those pictures of Dave and Nicolas are priceless! My heart goes out to Florabel and all of Dave and Kelly's family and friends...
~Jess
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ksolem
Oct 27, 2003, 6:38 PM
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Largo. Your point about the anchor being built of SLCD's is interesting. I would like to raise a related question, using as an example an accident which occurred over 20 years ago on Wallface, a large cliff in the Adirondack Mountains in New york. In this case the belay anchor failed following a factor 2 fall by the leader, who was 15-20 feet out with no pro in. The belayer was standing on a small ledge clipped to 3 medium sized friends (very new devices at the time) in a good 2 inch crack in solid rock. At the time there was speculation that the tie in to the anchor was slack, that is to say that the belayer was not weighting the anchor at the time of the fall. Has anyone done any studies on the holding power of camming devices when pre-loaded (such as in a hanging belay) or loaded on a curve (such as a typical lead fall with a dynamic rope) vs. sudden shock loading (such as in a factor 2 fall on an unloaded anchor)?
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timstich
Oct 27, 2003, 7:06 PM
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An excerpt from a rec.climbing post concerning a similar accident:
"Dunnwiddie and Eldridge most likely fell while climbing on the upper
pitches of the Direct North Buttress (DNB). When I found them at the
base of the cliff both were still tied into their lead ropes and all
of their gear seemed to have fallen with them. It appeared from what
we found that Dunnwiddie was leading on two nine millimeter lead ropes
while Eldridge belayed from a "traditional" anchor (built with their
own gear with no bolts of fixed gear). That anchor remained attached
to Eldridge's tie in point and consisted of the following: a blue
Alien and a small stopper (approximately #5 BD) clove hitched together
to one of the lead ropes, and a .5 and .75 Camalot each independently
clove hitched about a foot apart to the other lead rope. All of these
pieces were somewhat damaged, though it is impossible to know whether
that damage occurred at the time of the accident or during their fall.
We found no "lead protection" attached to the lead ropes between the
two climbers, and they were separated by approximately twenty-five
feet of rope when we found them. We also found a loose quick draw and
a few other miscellaneous pieces of climbing equipment around the
scene."
Incidentally, I edited out the link as it was too long.
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roseraie
Oct 27, 2003, 9:17 PM
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I spoke with someone from the RMRU who estimated that the report should be out by Wednesday. Keep an eye on www.rmru.org for updates on what they found when they investigated the route this weekend.
Meg
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adamzappal
Oct 27, 2003, 10:46 PM
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Hello, I’m not sure what to say really, or don’t even know if I should say anything… and its 10/22/2003 2:37am as I began to write this and I’m pretty tired. But I stumbled along this site after performing a few Google searches couple days after the accident in which what happened which has been hitting me pretty hard. I stopped writing this about half way through because I changed my mind about posting it, now it’s 10/27/03 and I’m finishing up and editing this report. If anyone wants me to edit or delete this post please let me know.
I’m not sure if I want to go into the detail of some things, but I feel that I should write since I’m here at this site and I was there and have some information to share despite my poor writing skills and current mood, I feel I should explain some things to help everyone gain an additional insight. This is not at all easy to write. And I’m just writing as I remember it.
In the following statements I will use the words like: maybe, or so, possibly, I think, I guess, somewhat, might have, or whatever… which means I can’t say for sure and the following statements can be incorrect. And the timing of everything can be off, but I’m writing this as best I can remember it.
Around 1pm or 1:30ish I arrived at lunch rock and was catching a breather and looking up at two parties of climbers in front of me (Meg and Art) and another two (unknown) nearing the top of some route about 50 yards to the right and thinking wow cool… then began to overlook the Trough while waiting for my girl friend Helene which she was about 5 minutes behind me on the trail. I wanted to have her follow me and expose her to her first airy multi-pitch experience…
It didn’t seem like I was standing there for more then a minute and just as I was beginning to look at the Trough, I heard the brief metallic jingling sound (you know that sound when someone that has lots of gear on when they take a “whipper”) immediately followed by three (not sure, I heard 2 or 3 or 4 **could have been more** it happened so fast) rapid popping sounding like gear ripping out(but now when I think about it… it could have been the sound of rock breaking with the gear) Then immediately heard a louder in volume rock cracking/popping, then one of the climbers gave out a short brief grunt/yelp like “wahhhgh!”; to me is somewhat sounded like a flake or block shifted and came down with them the first rock fall crash was loud and thick in impact at the same time of hearing two softer sounding thuds… for a few seconds after the fall, smaller rocks, but still big rocks, are still heard falling. Bear in mind I did not see them or rocks fall I just heard this from Lunch rock and not sure as to what happened. Right at first I thought that did not sound good, then I heard a female (Meg I think) voicing over in that direction “are you ok?” and I heard a males voice far to the left say “are you ok?” No response. I set down my pack and started going to my left in that direction. Meg was up belaying Art on Human Fright second pitch or something and she had said down to me that two climbers fell, Meg directed me to go to the 3rd class system to go diagonally left and up, Meg said “more around this side” after a few short minutes I came up to a ledge where Dave Kellogg was laying on his back head on top of a skinny tree and branches helmet shattered with couple pieces of the helmet further up the ledge. (Now when I think about it, despite the shattered helmet, I think the design of that Petzl helmet with the foam protected his head to some degree), his left eye was slightly open, I kneeled down beside him and it seemed to me he was in some way responsive and semi-conscious, then I stood up and yelled a couple times towards the south “call 911!” I guess around that time several people had used their cells phones to summon emergency help. I spent the next few which seemed to be long minutes contemplating what to do to help or comfort him. I told him help is on the way is on the way. And he vocally groaned. Dave’s wrist and arm was caught and pinched between the rope and his chest under tight tension of his rope to going to Kelly below the ledge and the accessory cord tied in a figure 8 to his belay loop going to the anchor he had and its was going along his right shoulder to the anchors which his back was on top of tangled in the tree branches. The cordlette was under tight tension too going over his chest and over his right shoulder and I had to untie the figure 8 from his belay loop, He was grunting a little bit as I frantically tried to ease the tension of the rope and cordelette. I right away wanted to get rid of the tension and pressure on his arm and chest by just disconnecting his belay device. But there was a considerable amount of tension I had to struggle pull in some slack to unhook his locking carabiner out of the belay loop. After unhooking the belay device I laid his arms to his side and he was quiet for a few seconds and I said “stay with me” and he groaned. All around this time Meg and Art were getting off their climb to come over, and a Freesolost (Tom, I think) appeared on a small ledge to the left on the Maiden higher over looking me and Dave across the gully. He asked me if I was trained in first aid, I said yea but it’s been a long time. He said I think you need to get the blood out of his mouth. I thought to myself yes i would like to get the blood out but I couldn’t imagine turning him over to his side or stomach. And besides doing so could have dislodged loose rocks and I wasn’t sure if his neck was broken. I said no I don’t want to move him. I just took Dave’s legs which were slanting slightly up the ledge and I straightened out his legs. Tom was there only for a couple short minutes, then he went back around the ledge and began down-climbing to the base.
Approximately 10 or so minutes went by (which seemed like forever) while I was wanting to keep Dave responsive by talking to him every now and then “saying don’t fall asleep on me” “hang in there” “helicopter in on its way”. He would respond with a crying groan gurgling up blood which seemed he was tying to fight and hang in there (I was just thinking or hoping a helicopter with medics would come fairly soon and lower down and lift him outta there on a stretcher and do what they can) around all this time I unbuckled Dave’s harness because I really thought flight for life helicopter was on its way and they would want the harness off. Soon after I could see a quiet sounding smaller helicopter approaching very fast I started swinging my shirt around in the air. The chopper flew over the summit and then back over and departed straight back the direction it came from.
Now several people were at the base of the rock directly below the ledge. I immediately warned them of big loose rocks on the ledge. And I don’t know if I wasn’t convincing enough or what, but they continued to stay there, and to my surprise someone(Ryan) started getting ready to rope-up and lead up directly to the ledge at that point I repeated that there are loose rocks watch-out. Anyway, from the base it was hard to see or tell where Kelly was. All I knew the live end of the rope was going down that way over the ledge. Ryan halfway up the climb spotted Kelly and traversed over to him and Ryan said he is inverted; he felt his arm, and said he was cold. Ryan made it up to the ledge about 5 minutes after Dave passed away; Ryan made an anchor toward the back of the ledge then founds Kelly’s ID right around there was also a Nalgine fully filled with water with a broken loop at the rear of the ledge near a blue piece of foam from Dave’s helmet. Also there was an REI/Wales bent-gate carabiner not to far from this stuff, laying there all by itself.
A short while after Dave passed away, I removed one of his leg loops from this harness and left the other then I picked up his right leg and placed it more to the right or of quite large triangular rock that had an extensive amount of blood on it that was kind of ready to slide off the ledge to the slightest bump, so I used Dave’s right leg as a stop as a preventive measure. None of the injuries Dave had seemed consistent with the amount of blood that was on that rock and left me to think Kelly struck that rock or the rock struck Kelly.
Later a couple other guys came up on the ledge and around that time a Fire Department helicopter was circling in the valley, they were checking out the situation and terrain for a few short minutes then left.
I might add to this, edit this, or delete this…
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artm
Oct 27, 2003, 11:09 PM
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This account is from Meg's perspective and mine.
Meg and I have slightly differing memories of what happened but agree on all the major points.
Basically we did the first pitch of Human Fright (skipping the first 2 pitches of Angels fright) then scrambled up some ledges to a better belay so we could switch over to AF so we were already 1/2 way up on the 3rd pitch heading to the roof section and lunch ledge. I decided to string the remainder of pitch 3 and pitch 4 together.
I was 30 feet above the belay for the second pitch of Human Fright (where the rap slings are) on the 4th pitch of Angels fright when we heard rockfall. It was really loud like thunder.
I looked up and Meg looked right and left. No rocks........then she said "I see people falling" I looked over just in time to see what I thought was a jacket falling. It was falling too fast to be a jacket though.
Meg asked me to get a piece in and clip it (I thought she was going to faint so did so immediately) Meg watched them fall all the way and noted approx where they landed (she lost sight of them in bushes/trees). We started calling out to them asking if they were all right,
we didn't expect anyone to answer back but were hoping somehow they survived I guess.
Meg spotted someone running up from lunch rock so she started giving them directions to where they were and I started down climbing back to the rap slings on the 2nd pitch of HF. Once I got to the slings I asked her how she felt about rapping off them, she wasn't comfortable with it so I downclimbed to her position.
Adam (the guy at lunch rock had reached the climbers and started yelling call 911 we need a chopper, Adam kept calling for help so we kept yelling "we're rapping off we're moving as fast as
we can". There was a soloist in the area who started yelling call 911 and blowing SOS on his safety whistle. So we started yelling for 911 hoping someone up top or at the parking lot would hear us. We agreed to triple check everything we did down to re-examining our tie in knots and our buckles. I belayed Meg back down to the first rap station at Human Fright (bolts) then downclimbed to her. We rapped off (at this point I was on autopilot and automatically dropped my rack and pulled my rope wasting valuable time which I now regret) changed our shoes (mistake-losing more time) I kept my camelbak on because Meg asked me to bring water and we ran down to get the stokes litter.
While I untied the litter Meg rummaged thru a pack at lunch rock looking for a first aid kit. We started to carried the litter over when a Helicopter buzzed by above us Meg tried to flag them down with her shirt while they flew back and forth but they flew away.
We arrived with the litter to find someone at the base of the area where the climbers fell (Jeremiah). He informed us that Adam was with one man and couldn't find the other. We asked Adam the condition of the man he was with, he had a faint pulse. We asked if the rope ran below or above where he was and he said "below". He also told us to be careful there was a lot of loose rock all around where he was.
Jeremiah and I decided to scramble up to Adam who was asking us to hurry. We looked at the section of rock in front of us (easy fifth class) and decided I should go first as I had my 5.10 Mountain Guides approach shoes on.
Jeremiah gave me a bottle of water (plus I had my camelbak on) so we could hydrate the victims and I started climbing. A thin dirt filled crack and a polished slab covered the first 15-20 feet to a wider crack with an area you can stand in and then it's fourth class.
I warned Jeremiah that the first section was really polished so he decided to back off rather than risk injuring himself (wise choice). I got up to a ledge about 50 feet from the ground (I know this because we later used a bi-color rope and the halfway mark was at the ledge) and below Adam's location. I again asked Adam where the rope went and he again answered "below me, be careful there's a lot of loose stuff up here".
At this point other people had begun to arrive Helene (Adams girlfriend) and Tom the soloist. Tom had downclimbed above and to the right of Adam. Helene said she'd called 911. I spotted the rope which led to a another ledge below Adam and about 10-15 feet above me. The only way to get there was a thin crack which appeared 5.6-5.7ish.
Someone asked me if I could get to the 2nd climber and I replied that I needed my rack and a rope. I told them I need to be really calm and focused when I solo harder than 5.6 and while I was in control I was not in the right frame of mind to solo. Jeremiah asked if I could climb higher and traverse across.
I asked Tom if I could get to the other victim from higher up and he said no. I asked for someone to get my rack and Meg took off, I assumed she was going to get my rack but she was going back to search in the pack at lunch rock for a first aid kit. While we waited I asked Adam how he was doing and he said he was okay but that the victim was dead.
Meg came back with a first aid kit but no rack. Two other climbers showed up (Ryan and Brent) and we asked them for a rack. I explained again how I wasn't in the right frame of mind to solo. Ryan agreed to climb part of the way up and pass me a space blanket to cover the 2nd victim. I down climbed the fourth class section and got the blanket. I again asked for a rack. Ryan agreed to lead up to where I was and then lead up to the 2nd victim. I climbed back to the ledge and Ryan led up to me. I offered to lead up to the 2nd victim if he didn't want to but he declined (Ryan knew CPR and I didn't). Ryan climbed up to the 2nd man. Ryan reached the 2nd man and said he was cold and without a pulse. Ryan climbed up to Adam and waited with him. I down climbed back to the ground and waited with everyone else.
A 2nd Helicopter flew by and Hovered but didn't land. We finally all agreed to walk down to the base and meet the SAR guys and Sheriff down there as it was getting close to dark.
I wasn't paying attention to what everybody was doing all the time and
couldn't see everyone. Some stuff is left out and I'm sure I've forgotten things or have them slightly wrong. the sequence of events may not be totally right either.
Adam you and Helene have my number and you can call me anytime if you need to talk.
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curt
Oct 28, 2003, 12:45 AM
Post #143 of 221
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In reply to: Largo. Your point about the anchor being built of SLCD's is interesting. I would like to raise a related question, using as an example an accident which occurred over 20 years ago on Wallface, a large cliff in the Adirondack Mountains in New york. In this case the belay anchor failed following a factor 2 fall by the leader, who was 15-20 feet out with no pro in. The belayer was standing on a small ledge clipped to 3 medium sized friends (very new devices at the time) in a good 2 inch crack in solid rock. At the time there was speculation that the tie in to the anchor was slack, that is to say that the belayer was not weighting the anchor at the time of the fall. Has anyone done any studies on the holding power of camming devices when pre-loaded (such as in a hanging belay) or loaded on a curve (such as a typical lead fall with a dynamic rope) vs. sudden shock loading (such as in a factor 2 fall on an unloaded anchor)?
ksolem,
I believe that one of those killed in the accident you are citing was a good friend of mine named Andy Metz. His name appears in the "Death and Climbing" thread that I started a few days ago, which was actually prompted by this thread.
Andy and his partner (Lee Fowler) were climbing on an upper pitch of Wallface in July of 1983 when Lee, who was leading, fell (fall factor = 2) above Andy, who was belaying. The anchor was a friend, it pulled and both Lee and Andy fell to their deaths. For reference, this accident is in the 1984 "Accidents in North American Mountaineering" on page 41.
Curt
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philbox
Moderator
Oct 28, 2003, 12:57 AM
Post #144 of 221
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Thank you ever so much Adam for posting this information. You are in rather a unique position of having been first on the scene and very close to the scene when the shocking events unfolded.
I am suggesting that you should not alter this post of yours. If you wish to add anything to it then you should simply add another post entirely to this thread.
You did the best that you thought was in your power to do given the situation and I don`t think that anyone can critisize you for this. I`d also like to add a comment to all that Adam would be somewhat traumatised even now after some time after having had to deal with a bad situation. He needs our support as does everyone who is affected by this.
I would like to say something in general and not at all directed at you Adam. I believe that everyone who ventures outdoors should have an up to date knowledge of first aid best practice.
Once again Adam I thank you for posting this information for us all and if there is any way any of us can help you come to terms with this tragedy then please allow us to help.
I will say again that I can only offer my sincerest condolonces to those that lost loved ones. The people who had to deal with this bad situation need our support also as they have to go on living with these memories.
I hope I have not said anything that could be considered in poor taste and if I have then I apologise.
I believe that there is still some way to go yet to fully understand the complete picture of this catastrophic failure. I look forward to the report from the people who went up to investigate the route.
Edit to remove the body of text quoted from Adam.
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robmcc
Oct 28, 2003, 3:34 AM
Post #145 of 221
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In reply to: I hope I have not said anything that could be considered in poor taste and if I have then I apologise.
Not poor taste, but I think it's reasonable to allow Adam the option of removing his post if HE decides it shouldn't be there. I'd suggest deleting yours to return that option to him. I agree that his words have value and should stay, but I won't take that choice from him.
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bobtufo
Oct 28, 2003, 2:40 PM
Post #146 of 221
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Registered: Oct 24, 2003
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We have been trying to log on so that we could express our deep gratitude for all of the loving and caring messages that have been posted. We want to thank those people, who were at the scene and summoned help and/or stayed with Dave and Kelly until the helicopter arrived. We also appreciate all of the information shared, the speculation, and each person's input. We read every word and have continued to check this site each day for any additional messages.
My condolences to Dave's family. We were grateful to meet Floribel and friends of Dave and Kelly on Saturday morning at Humber Park in Idyllwild. Thank you to everyone, who came and shared with us. We especially thank Florabel for arranging this gathering.
Kelly was a blessing to his family, and he was very happy at this time of his life. He loved climbing, his friends and his dog, Squiggy. He loved his life and the outdoors. He was also in love with a beautiful lady, Karissa. We will miss him, and we cherish our wonderful memories of the time we shared.
My husband regrets giving Kelly's incorrect age to the reporter at Press Enterprise. We await the report which RMRU is preparing based on their investigation. Thank you again to everyone involved, on the scene, and those offering your memories or perspective. This is a comfort to us.
Sincerely,
Toni & Bob Tufo
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prana0777
Oct 29, 2003, 1:32 AM
Post #147 of 221
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my thoughts go out to their family and friends.. it is very sad to hear about this one.
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socalclimber
Oct 29, 2003, 2:16 AM
Post #148 of 221
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It is really wonderful to see the family and friends observing and contributing to this thread. It's sad that it had to be under these circumstances. My point is, they have an opputunity to see what the climbing community is really all about, and how and why their loved ones were so committed to climbing.
This has been a tragic yet very wonderful thread. I work Search And Rescue in Joshua Tree NP and I have seen some tragic things, I've seen the shocked and sadden faces of the relatives and friends. My heart goes out to the families and friends of both climbers.
Be safe.
Robert
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hishopper
Oct 29, 2003, 4:37 AM
Post #149 of 221
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I am so sorry for the losses of two beautiful (from posts) souls.
Those who climb cannot entirely forget the world that lies below,
but the world below will never know what is at the top. Truly both men have made it to the top.
To the loved one who said "rack up in memory" - I can't thank you enough for saying that, I'm sure those words did not come easily - they will be remembered.
To those who helped and were a part of the rescue efforts, have you been a part of any Post Trauma debreifing? If not, I humbly and sincerely suggest you contact the EMT/Fire dept to find the local coordinator... Critical Incident Stress Management is not psychology, nor is it therapy or a self-help group - it's education designed to give you coping tools, and a safe place to share grief (if so desired). No matter how "strong" a person you are, we were just not built to experience such things. Even if you feel like you are ok, a CISD can only help - for instance do you know that flashbacks, sleeplessness, irritibility, loss of appetite and huge list of other things (some dramatic) are normal reactions to abnormal circumstances?
To the community who has lovingly supported all of the above, thank you.
Donald
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mtnrsq
Oct 29, 2003, 4:52 PM
Post #150 of 221
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Registered: Aug 30, 2003
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I know many people are waiting for RMRU to post some of their findings in the hope that it sheds more light on this tragedy.
While we wait for info. specific to this accident, I would like to share some general thoughts and what I would consider "best practices" in responding to an accident either as a first responder or subject.
First - Use your head. It is your best piece of equipment. It does no one any good if you create more victims. STOP and THINK before "leaping" into action.
Second - Take an advanced first aid course. Even better - a wilderness first aid or first responder course. After the course - build a modular first aid kit that can be tweaked according to your destination, etc. Cragging a short distance from the car? A simple kit is better. Climbing in a remote backcountry spot? Adjust as approp. Remember - keep it simple. The reality is that no kit can be comprehensive enough for a major accident. Learn to improvise with your "regular" gear (see the course above particularly WFR).
Third - Know how to deal with the "technical" aspects of a climbing accident. Escaping a belay, lowering/raising an injured partner, assisted rappels, etc. Learn that discretion is the better part of valor. Better to secure someone in a safe location and get help than to overreach your capabilities in a self-rescue (this often leads to tragedy).
Fourth - High angle rescue situations are special and require specialized response from emergency agencies. High angle rescues in a wilderness environment (i.e., away from the road) are even more complicated. An effective response requires that the dispatchers you contact know the nature of the incident. You MUST be very specific and ensure that they are aware that the rescue is a "cliff", "high angle" or "mountain" rescue. Know who the APPROPRIATE local resources are - ask for them specifically. Remember it is always better to ask for help and not need it than NOT ask and need it after hours have elapsed. Be VERY specific about location - don't use "insider" names (i.e., Joe's Rad Crack Climb) unless it is widely known outside the climbing community (e.g., Half Dome). Give trailheads/names, distances and other info. that can help narrow the location down (if you have a GPS - use it!). Tell them the nature of the accident. Tell them how they can contact you ("I'll wait at the trailhead", "My cell # is......"). If you are using a cell phone (or similar) - SAVE THE BATTERY. Do NOT make extra calls (I can't tell you how many times people drain their batteries calling friends, etc.). Always remember - when you dial 9-1-1 you may be talking to someone far away, from another agency, etc. Your information is what the initial response will be framed upon.
Fifth - If helicopters are needed - ask for them. If you can - ask for a HOIST equipped or short-haul capable helicopter (they may not use those capabilities, but having them on a helo that is on-scene is better than having to wait for one.....). Inform dispatchers of any hazards that you are aware of (especially WIRES) and secure loose items. Tell dispatch how you will signal the helicopter (if nec.) ("We'll be waving a red jacket").
One last thought - if you want to give back to the larger climbing (and outdoor) community consider joining a local search and rescue team.
There are many other things to consider, but I've ranted enough and you get the idea......
Adam, Art, Meg, Helene, and the other non-professional first responders performed quite well given the situation on the 19th. We should all ask ourselves what we, god forbid, would have done if we were in their shoes.
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