|
bigfoot
Oct 29, 2003, 10:12 PM
Post #1 of 70
(5078 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 3, 2003
Posts: 52
|
All the recent discussions involving free soloing leads me to wonder, do you guys free solo? If you do, do you solo often? and do you solo routes that you consider difficult? From recent forums it seems to be an issue that splits the climbing community in half. Personally, I hate the idea of risking my life, just for the reward of getting to the top of a wall without a rope- so I guess my question to all the solo-ers out there is; why do you solo? Are there any articles about solo climbers and their death, do most solo climbers die soloing, or, like Yabo (Lynn Hill, "Climbing Free"), pass due to other reasons? Just wondering..........Sorry about the rambling questions. :D :D
|
|
|
|
|
hello_heino
Oct 29, 2003, 10:22 PM
Post #2 of 70
(5078 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 23, 2003
Posts: 231
|
In reply to: why do you solo?
It's more fun, exciting, and mentally demanding than encumbered climbing.
|
|
|
|
|
gravitytheory
Oct 29, 2003, 10:35 PM
Post #3 of 70
(5078 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 12, 2003
Posts: 261
|
I solo because I haven't showered in years. :shock:
Just kidding. Rope up--it'll save your life.
|
|
|
|
|
bandycoot
Oct 29, 2003, 10:39 PM
Post #4 of 70
(5078 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 25, 2002
Posts: 2028
|
Why climb?
If you like to climb, it's not because of the gear most likely. It's the movement over the rock that holds the appeal. If you KNOW that you can climb something without falling, why bring the gear? All it will do is distract and slow you down. I have soloed for 4 reasons specifically:
1. First time soloing, my partner wanted to "warm up" by soloing a 800+' route at Tahquitz. I didn't feel completely comfortable having never done the route so I requested we wear harnesses, bring 4-5 pieces of gear and a rope. He agreed and we were off. We soloed White Maiden's Walkaway at Tahquitz in about 20 minutes. It was great!
2. I felt the urge and didn't want to wait for the gear. I wanted it to be me and the rock, nothing else.
3. I had no partner. My climbing partners were leaving early from Tahquitz and so I onsight soloed The Trough for something to do during the afternoon.
4. There was no pro/anchor. I eyed a beautiful striking 10- offwidth at Mt Woodson for a couple years. I didn't even know it was named for the first few. It's called Big Grunt. When I finally decided to climb it, I got on top of the rock and found no GOOD way to make an anchor. The crux was getting into the offwidth/squeeze chimney, so I just soloed it.
#2 is my most common reason for soloing.
|
|
|
|
|
chossmonkey
Oct 29, 2003, 10:43 PM
Post #5 of 70
(5078 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 1, 2003
Posts: 28414
|
That is kinda like non-climbers asking climbers why they love climbing. You'll get a different answer from everybody and I don't think most people would really totally understand no matter how good the answer. It's totally a personal thing. I don't solo all that much but when I do it is about the mental part for me. I don't climb anything remotely close to my limit. I think it helps me to keep a cooler head when doing harder trad leads and highball bouldering. If you have to ask others why they do it, it's probably not right for you so don't even think about it.
|
|
|
|
|
rockclimbingpyro
Oct 29, 2003, 10:47 PM
Post #6 of 70
(5078 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 15, 2002
Posts: 100
|
i think that if you have the balls to do it and feel comfortable, go for it!i think i may try soloing one day but for now i'm gona stick to a rope! and soloing 5.11 and .12s :shock: thats crazy!! but what ever floats you boat or blows up your skirt...
good luck
|
|
|
|
|
hroldan
Oct 29, 2003, 10:48 PM
Post #7 of 70
(5078 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 7, 2002
Posts: 330
|
I love life = don't want to die or put me in danger of it
My skills aren't that good to "solo" but i've done things on my own that later you say "are you nuts?" and have climbed alone with a self belay device, but is not for risking your life, is just that there are some activities that just make you disapear, i like that feelling. Just like my first lead (5.10) i was totally afraid of leading but eager to do it. I just did it and before i knew i was at 80% of the route and that feeling!!! i just disapeared, suddenly everything made sense... there was no rush... totally focus... I have bouldered some high stuff (and that feeling showed too)
Sometimes you wan't to do it and people think you are spraying, so that's why do it alone.
I admire soloers and in my own mind there's dispute about it but just the memory... i often ask myself why i haven't found other thing that can be performed without risk and get that feeling too (which is so hard to explain).
There are things in life that once you've tasted it you want to taste it again.
great post, i wan't to hear what true soloers feel.
|
|
|
|
|
telemarkist
Oct 29, 2003, 10:50 PM
Post #8 of 70
(5078 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 29, 2003
Posts: 182
|
how do you train for the mental side of climbing? for me soloing is just that, training myself for those "can't fall here spots" that are common at areas like tuolumne, I see little difference falling at 60 or 160ft. out on lead or solo from the same height. the outcome will very likely be the same. I prefer to know the limits of my physical and mental skills, my life sometimes depends on it.
wev'e been beatin this one to death lately, this is my post from the other day/thread but it fits here as well
|
|
|
|
|
alwaysforward
Oct 29, 2003, 10:53 PM
Post #9 of 70
(5078 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 22, 2002
Posts: 979
|
"In all the splendor of solitude... it is a test of myself, and one thing I loathe is to have to test myself in front of other people."
— Naomi Uemura
|
|
|
|
|
xcire
Oct 29, 2003, 11:08 PM
Post #10 of 70
(5078 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 18, 2003
Posts: 275
|
Only reason I can think of: for the insurance money
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
Oct 29, 2003, 11:24 PM
Post #11 of 70
(5078 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
Define a clear line of demarcation between soloing and what... hiking? Scrambling? Then maybe we can debate the wider merits.
I climb mountains, among other things. I frequently do that alone.
If I solo 2nd class terrain, like wow! I walked cross country unassisted and alone. Whoo hoo!
If I solo 3rd class terrain I am doing nothing stout men and women of yesteryear couldn't manage in hobnailed logging boots and riding skirts. Still, I've seen plenty of 3rd class terrain that would be bad to fall from.
If I solo 4th class I'm finally bucking the trend and going ropeless where others rope up. But still, this is 4th class, terrain upon which my predessors found it unnecessary to place any pro at all between belays. Now you might call that free soloing and I'd agree with you, at least for the leader anyway. But I doubt many conjur up an image of 4th class terrain when they picture free soloing.
If I solo 5th class terrain, finally I am purposely going without rope where one is expressly used. And yet, if the entire mountain contains a solitary 5th class move along with 1000 yards of 3rd class, 12 miles of 2nd and another 10 miles of trail... just what have I free soloed and why?
Did I free solo "just to get to the top of the wall?" Sounds stupid in the context of a gym I bet. Is it equally stupid to press through that single move and make the summit, or just bag it and go home?
And what's the line of demarcation between bouldering and free soloing? It's a wide gray line, I'll tell you that. It fluxes, waxes and wans depending upon rock, skill, landing consequences and headspace. What is a desperate free solo for me might be nearly a casual boulder problems for some hardwoman.
And what about that dude leading the climb one pitch over? I couldn't help but notice he runs it out big time on moderate terrain, which, on a mountain like this is most of the time. He's going 50, 75, sometimes 100 feet between placements. And he's simulclimbing to boot. Why, if the 2nd falls at the wrong moment, they're both likely dead dead dead. Effective free soloing if you ask me, with weights thrown in for good measure.
See, free soloing evokes the image of the careless 21 year old guy out to impress the ladies by dashing up the Nutcracker for the weekend tourist run. And that goes on, a lot.
But there is a whole nuther class of free soloing that has little to do with impressing anyone and is typically found within the confines of a much larger game.
Why? The pleasure of climbing miles of granite, miles from home, utterly and completely alone, living life and responsible as only a climber can be, for every breath taken. Many folks boldly declare they will never free solo. Then they are confronted with some casual decision, move a top rope setup, clean up a belay anchor, scramble the last 40 feet to the rim, the 5th class move on a long peak climb, a fast moving storm, an injured mate, fire, earthquake, flood! And we find ourselves climbing without a rope. Will we be up for the task? Do you agree that there may be times in the life of a climber when going without a rope is not only preferrable but safer to boot?
Cheers
DMT
|
|
|
|
|
watersprite
Oct 29, 2003, 11:33 PM
Post #12 of 70
(5078 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 1601
|
Good post, Dingus. I respect your decisions and you know what you're about. I get anxious when new climbers start asking about free soloing. I guess I should mind my own business.
what bothers me is - it's happened to me recently ...while seconding, I got stuck and was out of hearing. The rope was too taut to downclimb. I hung on it, trying to get enough line to go down and then across, (Surrealistic Pillar - route was not stright up). Anyway, my partner felt the rope go taut, so he tied me off and began to solo down to me. I placed him in jeopardy by being too tired/ too weak to finish a pitch. once I was tied off, I could skip the rope over a couple of knobs, and eventually went across and back up, til my partner saw me.
long story short - it's a personal decision that can affect me, as well, and I would hate to be "responsible" for someone having to free solo to help me out if something happened to him.
|
|
|
|
|
mattdog
Oct 29, 2003, 11:48 PM
Post #13 of 70
(5078 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 1, 2003
Posts: 1523
|
I have a son who depends upon me to be there from the moment he wakes up to the time he goes to bed, for the rest of his life. I have a wife who dedicated her life to me, to which I owe the same duty.
I do not free solo, because my death would not just result in my own lose of life, but the destruction of my family. What's worse, would be that I would have done it knowingly, and that is most dishonorable.
My personal choice. There's nothing wrong with others, but this is mine.
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
Oct 29, 2003, 11:50 PM
Post #14 of 70
(5078 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
In reply to: I get anxious when new climbers start asking about free soloing. I guess I should mind my own business.
I mean you no personal disrespect with the following:
I have noted this sentiment frequently expressed by women climbers. Much less frequently by men.
Is this the mothering instinct?
Some of us guys could and would watch some stupid young punk try to solo something right next to us, watch him auger in from 100 feet up and we'd turn to each other and say, "I TOLD YOU he was gonna crater! I got dibs on the shoes if they're 10's!"
And yet, often enough that I can remember the posts, women seem, I don't know, particularly offended by the notion of a noob even ASKING about free soloing. And woe to the person who is perceived as glorifying this forbidden activity, this taboo.
What say you to that?
Cheers
DMT
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
Oct 29, 2003, 11:51 PM
Post #15 of 70
(5078 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
In reply to: I do not free solo, because my death would not just result in my own lose of life, but the destruction of my family. What's worse, would be that I would have done it knowingly, and that is most dishonorable.
I'm curious, with such strong sentiment, how do you justify the inherent risk of climbing at all? No offense intended, just chatting mate.
DMT
|
|
|
|
|
alpnclmbr1
Oct 30, 2003, 12:07 AM
Post #16 of 70
(5078 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 10, 2002
Posts: 3060
|
Everybody who rockclimbs also freesolos.
People who deny this scare me.
|
|
|
|
|
watersprite
Oct 30, 2003, 12:08 AM
Post #17 of 70
(5078 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 1601
|
Yes, D. It's a mothering thing. Just like if women ruled the world, they wouldn't send their sons and husbands to war. unless they were PMSing.
serious, though. its a testosterone loaded activity. I don't tell men not to start fights in bars or piss on the side of the highway. what good would it do? I just nod and smile, nod and smile...
and re why take the risk at all? I waited until my youngest was 17 to start climbing - she was 18 before I did a multipitch, so I think I have at least raised my kids, and if something happens, I know I didn't leave them minors at least.
|
|
|
|
|
climb_plastic
Oct 30, 2003, 12:11 AM
Post #18 of 70
(5078 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 24, 2003
Posts: 706
|
In reply to: I love life = don't want to die or put me in danger of it
Life is about putting it out there on the line. If you don't then life can be leaving you behind and you don't even know it.
|
|
|
|
|
jono
Oct 30, 2003, 12:16 AM
Post #19 of 70
(5078 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 6, 2002
Posts: 2067
|
ive only done it once and even then it was only like 35 feet, if you can even call that a free-solo. to this day i dont know why i did it. i dont think i would ever free-solo in the future because i would probably freak out near the top of a "true solo." bottom line, i dont have enough experience to trust myself without a rope. even if it was a 5.7 i just dont trust myself. ill stick to my new found love...trad.
|
|
|
|
|
pixelguru
Oct 30, 2003, 12:28 AM
Post #20 of 70
(5078 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 14, 2003
Posts: 182
|
In reply to: If I solo 4th class I'm finally bucking the trend and going ropeless where others rope up.
While not exactly the kind of soloing that gets printed on magazine covers, I thought this was relevant.
At my local crag, there are several areas that require pulling very exposed moves in order to reach the base of routes or belay ledges. I personally felt confident doing them... but I made a point to climb slowly and concentrate on what I was doing.
The problem with this is that it encourages others who may not be as confident to pull the same moves because they saw me do it. Monkey see - monkey do. Worse, I've seen stronger climbers in a traveling group impatiently push weaker climbers into doing dangerous things unroped even though the novices were obviously freaked by the situation.
I've started trying to set a good example and rope up at these exposed spots. It doesn't do any harm, and it may do a lot of good.
|
|
|
|
|
braon
Oct 30, 2003, 12:38 AM
Post #21 of 70
(5078 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 4, 2003
Posts: 154
|
In reply to: ive only done it once and even then it was only like 35 feet, if you can even call that a free-solo. to this day i dont know why i did it. i dont think i would ever free-solo in the future because i would probably freak out near the top of a "true solo." bottom line, i dont have enough experience to trust myself without a rope. even if it was a 5.7 i just dont trust myself. ill stick to my new found love...trad. |
|
|
|
|
pixelguru
Oct 30, 2003, 12:40 AM
Post #22 of 70
(5078 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 14, 2003
Posts: 182
|
In reply to: Life is about putting it out there on the line. If you don't then life can be leaving you behind and you don't even know it.
I would think that if the only way you feel alive is by risking death, you need to re-examine your reasons for living.
I personally plan on leading a thrilling and exciting life, but I still wear my seatbelt while driving, bike helmet while riding (broke 2 with my head in them), and I overbuild my anchors while climbing.
|
|
|
|
|
iltripp
Oct 30, 2003, 12:44 AM
Post #23 of 70
(5078 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 6, 2003
Posts: 1607
|
In reply to: serious, though. its a testosterone loaded activity. I don't tell men not to start fights in bars or piss on the side of the highway. what good would it do? I just nod and smile, nod and smile...
I have to disagree here. I have participated in many sports in my rather short life (including running and boxing). I find climbing to be one of the least testosterone loaded. This is proven by the number of awesome women climbers. This is not too say that testosterone doesn't come into play or that many of us climbers are testosterone loaded (piss me off and you'll see that I am), but I wouldn't call it a defining characteristic of either climbing or soloing.
I've only soloed very few extremely easy routes, nothing that I felt in danger in, so I'm not an expert on the subject. However, I think that people solo for some of the same reasons they climb. Climbing can often be a huge adrenaline rush (maybe this is why you call it testosterone loaded), but I think one thing that attracts climbers is the stage where it's not an adrenaline rush, but a moment of zen. I don't like adrenaline climbing. It messes with my head, makes my hands sweat, and impairs my ability. I climb for the feeling of absolute focus. I climb for those moments of total zen, when you're mind and body are centered and working in total unity. This is the opposite of adrenaline and testosterone and it is infinitely better. I can only speak for myself, but I think a lot of people who solo do so for the same feeling.
You experts out there can correct me if I'm wrong...
|
|
|
|
|
watersprite
Oct 30, 2003, 12:56 AM
Post #24 of 70
(5078 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 1601
|
in my very limited climbing experience, I have found it to be loaded with manly hormones! come on man! is there anything more male than extreme sports - extreme sport bikes, ice climbing, white water kayaking? it's all good, just - don't give me that girly man pansy as* crap about zen ok?
|
|
|
|
|
iltripp
Oct 30, 2003, 1:09 AM
Post #25 of 70
(5078 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 6, 2003
Posts: 1607
|
In reply to: in my very limited climbing experience, I have found it to be loaded with manly hormones! come on man! is there anything more male than extreme sports - extreme sport bikes, ice climbing, white water kayaking? it's all good, just - don't give me that girly man pansy as* crap about zen ok?
Sure... the danger aspect of climbing is somewhat testosterone induced, but I think there's a lot more to it. I never climbed that testosterone is not involved in climbing, only that it is NOT the reason why people solo. Again, that's just my take on it and I can only speak from my own experience. Also, I think extreme sports are based more on adrenaline than testosterone, which are totally different. Adrenaline = skydiving. Testosterone = football. Big difference, and women love a thrill too. IIn any case, it's not adrenaline or testosterone that makes me climb.
Furthermore, I am the farthest thing you can find from a "girly man" and it's not "pansy ass crap". I love climbing and will continue to love climbing for something entirely different then adrenaline and testosterone. I climb because I love the focus. It's the same zone feeling I used to get when running, but would you call long distance running a testosterone induced sport.
If climbing is all about a manly hormones, should we assume that you are a manly, testosterone driven, butch she-male? Why do you climb? Too many male hormones or do you have another reason?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
