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darkside
Oct 30, 2003, 9:11 PM
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Registered: Sep 15, 2001
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Please do not turn this thread into a discussion of irrelevant points. This is a serious and urgent request for help. Please reply only if you have relevant help.
I am heavily involved in access matters and have been searching for statistics to help in a current access issue. What I need is hard data on climbing related lawsuits to compare to non climbing related lawsuits from other recreational activities.
What I need to demonstrate in terms of a land owners liability perspective is that the actual risk from climbers is less than the perceived risk. This will be achieved by showing the significantly lower incidence of lawsuits or insurance claims resulting from climbing activities when compared to lawsuits or insurance claims from other recreational activities. Other user groups could include hikers, bikers, or anything.
Additional information that may be useful includes accident statistics, dollars/per capita spent on safeguarding various user groups, rescue incidences of climbers vs hikers, or other favourable data or resources.
If you have such data to hand, can obtain such data, or know of websites or resources that are relevant, please let me know. I have waded through innumerable pages resulting from various searches to no great avail.
The implication is that without such demonstration of statistics, the amount of insurance required will be more than any group can afford and effectively climbing will not be allowed despite the recent final approval of a waiver system. This will render nearly three years of work virtually negated.
A secondary benefit is that this information will undoubtedly be of use in future access issues elsewhere.
In advance,
Thank you.
Grant
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reddaisies
Oct 30, 2003, 9:23 PM
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Registered: Oct 6, 2003
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the best place to look would proably be using lexis nexis if you have access. you can look up cases and the best thing about these cases is that they've done the research about statistics and where to get them. and you know that it's a realiable source because the lawyers have already confirmed the validity of the information.
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braon
Oct 30, 2003, 9:28 PM
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Registered: Sep 4, 2003
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The nps website has YOSAR info that might help you out. It lists incident rates of several user groups of the park from 1998 to 2002. They've also got cost reports for the same years. Hope this helps.
http://www.nps.gov/yose/sar/
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bostonclimbah
Oct 30, 2003, 9:44 PM
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Don't have any stats for you but I would recomend speaking to a guide service and see what they can share. In a recent conversation about "the business" of climbing, a guide (owner of a very reputable service) told me that his rates for insurance are surprisingly low due to the extremely low occurrence of awards resulting from such claims or cases.
The thinking is that no jury would ever believe that a reasonable person could reasonably expect technical rock climbing to be a safe endeavor, guided or not. Mobile walls and gyms however, were among the highest in the outdoor recreation industry because of the perception of safety.
Anyway, I am no expert , but it might be good place to start.
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darkside
Oct 31, 2003, 3:17 PM
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Thanks for the contributions thus far. I will be checking them out.
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dlintz
Oct 31, 2003, 4:10 PM
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Try contacting the Access Fund. They may be able to get you some info or direct you to other resources.
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bostonclimbah
Oct 31, 2003, 7:04 PM
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This just came to mind. You should try contacting some of the folks from the Rumney Climbers Association in New Hampshire. If you can't find the organization, look up Tim Kemple. He was very involved in the development of this sport area. He also owns a Rock Gym in Plymouth NH called the Rock Barn.
He has dealt with a lot of these issues and should be a good resource.
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