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rocmonkey
Mar 6, 2002, 5:12 AM
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I agree fully with beerandblood on this one. I have (had) more respect for Dan Osman than anyone else in climbing.
He pushed the limit, he climbed like a god, and he proved what we can do if we really put our minds to it.
Most will say that he got bored because he could climb anything...I say he lost his RESPECT.
Climbing has one rule: Respect for others, the rock, the environment, and respect for yourself.
Stick to the rule and you'll be fine.
Recklessness is an attribute associated with people who keep their feet on the ground.
(There is a similar post in here somewhere)
breathe stone
R C
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big_wall_theorist
Mar 6, 2002, 5:18 AM
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>>Don't know if this has been talked about before if it has someone will set me straight if it has.<<
It has, so drop it. You'll never be half the man Dan Osman was, so you have no business forming form opinions about him. Just let it go.
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brinton
Mar 6, 2002, 6:35 AM
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I have to say that Dano was the man. Sure he did things many of us would never attempt, but that was his way of living life. I don't know anyone who has the guts like Dano. We climb mountains to have fun. Dano wasn't all about pushing the limits into graded climbing like Chris Sharma and Tommy Caldwell for example. He just liked doing his thing. He will be missed, but not forgotten.
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dontneedfeet
Mar 6, 2002, 6:38 AM
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I have nothing but respect for him and what he did.
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socialclimber
Mar 6, 2002, 8:18 AM
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"...I am not asking about his final day. Thats a whole different topic, But his acomplishments as a climber and thrill seeker.
Me personally respect the man for having pushed the limits in areas never been pushed before. It is intense to watch him and to see what people can really do."
big_wall_theorist, If you got off your nut tool long enough for your eyes to stop watering you would have read the above quote from crackaddicts post. you would also see that hes not slagging Dan O or stroking his own ego. Cracks post was positive and written out of respect. On second thoughts big_wall, you just sit and spin a little longer.
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theamish
Mar 6, 2002, 12:44 PM
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Quote: "It has, so drop it. You'll never be half the man Dan Osman was, so you have no business forming form opinions about him. Just let it go."
What do you know of what makes a man and what doesn't ???????
D.O. orphaned a little girl when he died. He was a great climber, but it takes more than that to make a man. Quit calling names.
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bartlax
Mar 6, 2002, 2:12 PM
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Not sure if anyone writing has or hasn't, but if you would like a great read, "Fall of the Phantom Lord" written by Andrew Todhunter is really mind blowing. He spent about a year hanging out with him right up until his death, and really gives you an inside perspective on how Osmans mind really worked.
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theamish
Mar 6, 2002, 2:27 PM
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in addition to my last post:
"He had hundreds of friends, thousands of fans, but no possesions, property or life insurance. All those who wish to fianancialy help out his 12 year old daughter can send donations to:"
Emma Osman Trust Fund
c/o Andrea Osman-Brown
1760 Roper Court
Reno NV 89506
Next time you find some spare money in your pocket ....... they can use the help.
[ This Message was edited by: theamish on 2002-03-06 06:30 ]
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radistrad
Mar 6, 2002, 2:39 PM
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See the video of him soloing Bears Reach at Lovers Leap in CA? Awesome. 400' in just over 4 min. Flagging on a route in the Needles. I think Dan is a legend.
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camhead
Mar 6, 2002, 5:34 PM
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I thought he had a really cool climbing style.
And the dude had BALLS (duh)!!! He was not an unusually strong climber (by today's standards), but he would still free solo 11+!!! He climbed for himself, which rules.
However, he had a daughter, and I think it is very selfish that he did what he still did what he did despite this fact. It was, no question about it, MORALLY WRONG.
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runner
Mar 6, 2002, 9:41 PM
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dan osmond "pushed the envelope" sure.
a lot of great people have pushed humainity's limits with style and all that bilge people loved about dan osmond.
there have been better climbers.
plenty of em.
there have been better climbers with more style.
there have been better climbers who were more responsible.
there have been better climbers who had repsect for their life and the feelings of others whom they affect.
he showed too great a disdain for life to be heroic.
his actions and death have been the most widespread, highest profile misrepresentation of climbing in its history.
life is good.
no argument will convince me that by threatening one's life one enjoys it more.
so that 'he lived life to the fullest' spin is a lot of tripe.
this is intended as a reflection on his behavior, not as a judgement on him personally.
i've never met him.
but the things he did are better learned from and not repeated.
anybody can throw life away.
it takes real courage to live.
love.
runner.
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big_wall_theorist
Mar 6, 2002, 9:41 PM
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SocialClimber you got a bad mouth and a attitude to match it. Drop the attitude man, its f---ing lame.
All I was saying, is that CrackAddict has no business even provoking a question that will be anwsered with critic of Dan Osman and his life. No one has the right to critic anyone elses respective lives....especially after they have passed. Its disrespectful. Arguement OVER. New Thread.
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graniteboy
Mar 7, 2002, 12:17 AM
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When The Famous Dan-O was teaching a rock climbing class at Sierra Nevada College, he set up a few topropes and then left for a couple hours, telling the class that they "knew what they were doing". None of them knew what they were doing.
When the famous Dan-O died and left his child without a father, it was in this same vein of extremely poor judgement and utter stupidity that led to his death.
Dan-O also pushed Scott Burke off the top of the leaning tower when Scott decided he didn't want to jump. This is called a bad choice of friends.
Dan-O was physically strong, but had no judgement. Dan-O was media hype. Dan-O was everything that has come to mean the dumbing down and lack of respect for the mountains that is apparently worshipped in modern climbing hype.
Dan-O was no hero. Dan-O is dead. His kid is gonna have a helluva time paying for college, if she can overcome the emotional issues associated with being abandoned by her "father" long enough to get the grades to get into college in the first place.
Dan-O is not someone to look up to. Dan-O is someone you can use to learn from other's mistakes. All of them.
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stigonrock
Mar 7, 2002, 12:33 AM
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One of my first climbing videos I ever got had Dan Osman on it soloing routes on The Needles.
Initially I thought hey he's quite a good climber, not the best but up there with the best of them. And then the more I watched I saw his energy. This man I thought has really has got the spirt, the passion for it, for pushing it, for self expression through these sports. The determination to live doing what he loves doing and because of that he's so good at it.
I watched this guy on my TV, do rope jumps of bridges of rock arches, climb waterfuls, do speed climbing everything with a determination and a will more than most of us will ever have.
I've never met the guy and I don't know how he lived his life but Dan Osman was my first ever USA rock hero and he remains so. That's all I wanted to say
Angela
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crackaddict
Mar 7, 2002, 3:18 AM
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Hey big_wall_theorist,
the whole reason I even asked the question was because I had heard other climbers, actually even before his death not approve of the things he was doing. As I said,I am not asking about his final day. Thats a whole different topic. I did'nt want to hear anything about his death or the way he left things. But what he did while he was alive. So far nobody has pushed levels to this extreme. I surely did'nt want to show any disrespect. I apologize if anyone is offended by my question.
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apollodorus
Mar 7, 2002, 3:26 AM
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This topic is so insider, nobody knows what you're talking about. I searched the clinternet and found the articles. I think that D.O. did something that was inevitable. I mean, the push to free the aid line, then free solo the free line has to have obvious tangents. Jumping off the Leaning Tower on a single rope is basically going for the world's record whipper. At least now we know that 1000' is about the limit.
[ This Message was edited by: apollodorus on 2002-03-06 20:47 ]
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orngave
Mar 7, 2002, 3:33 AM
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Hey Angela, Dan-O, as some of our cohorts like to call him was on the first climbing video that I watched. He was my first real rock hero too. watching him run up mountains, and take huge falls, and take large jumps off of whatever he could find. It was the master's of stone video, the same one that had the rig that he died on, it didn't show him pushing anyone off of the mountain, or disrespecting the mountains in anyway. So again, I disagree with you graniteboy.
E.B.
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socialclimber
Mar 7, 2002, 3:54 AM
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big_wall_theorist wrote...
" ">>Don't know if this has been talked about before if it has someone will set me straight if it has.and
" SocialClimber you got a bad mouth and a attitude to match it. Drop the attitude man, its f---ing lame.
All I was saying, is that CrackAddict has no business even provoking a question that will be anwsered with critic of Dan Osman and his life..."
big_wall_theorist, That looks like a post with attude. You are implying we mere mortals are too lowly to even whisper Dan O's name. crackaddicts post was respectful and concise. You should have read it properly before going off half cocked. You, me, him or anyone using this site has every right to have an opinion or ask a question. You might also note the lack of critisim throught the thread since Crack started it. big_wall, your fears were unfounded.
This is all I have to say on the matter lest this oblique subject hijacks cracks thread completly.
[ This Message was edited by: socialclimber on 2002-03-06 20:04 ]
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big_wall_theorist
Mar 7, 2002, 6:25 PM
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>>big_wall_theorist, That looks like a post with attude.
>>big_wall_theorist, If you got off your nut tool long enough for your eyes to stop watering>On second thoughts big_wall, you just sit and spin a little longer.[ This Message was edited by: big_wall_theorist on 2002-03-07 10:33 ]
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graniteboy
Mar 7, 2002, 7:41 PM
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Hey you guys; Let's quit fighting and see if there was anything to learn from Dan-O. As I see it, he had alot of fire, which is a good thing, in the climbing and jumping department. He also had very poor judgement, which is a bad thing, particularly in his teaching, fatherhood, and friendship departments. That's all.
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big_wall_theorist
Mar 7, 2002, 9:23 PM
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How bout lets NOT graniteboy. That was my whole point. I don't think we should be publicly analyzing the mans life. If you fell you have learned something from his life or death that is great, I know I have. However, I don't think it is in our right to analysis his life publicly.
BTW - Graniteboy, point taking about the bickering. I just get easily riled up when someone tells me to sit and spin on my nut tool. Sorry
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theamish
Mar 7, 2002, 10:52 PM
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Oh Please, D.O. lived in the public eye via the media. He put his life where people could see it. Being an intelligent man, I'm sure he had full knowledge that it would be scrutinized and critiqued. I'm not sure where anyone gets off telling others what they can think or say or discuss, but for those that do, here's a little headline for you:
"December 15, 1791
Philadelphia
A bill of rights to the Federal Constitution was officially entered into law today by an act of the United States Congress. Among other guarantees, these 10 amendments to the constitution ensure citizens of the United States freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion and freedom of assembly."
Dicussion is a healthy form of learning, even if you don't particularly like the subject. State your opinion, but be considerate enough to let others do the same.
Getting off my soap box now!
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big_wall_theorist
Mar 8, 2002, 12:46 AM
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>>Dicussion is a healthy form of learning
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graniteboy
Mar 8, 2002, 1:46 AM
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Actually, Mr Theorist, my intent on this particular topic is primarily to educate young, inexperienced climbers in how not to get killed, and perhaps to elucidate why they should be more responsible toward their students or climbing partners.
Apparently, my teaching has not reached you. That's OK. There are alot of people out there who will continue to look up to Dan-O uncritically. But I know the other side of the story, because Dan-O lived around here, and showed some pretty poor judgement from time to time. I was hoping this forum might avert a death. Dan-O is dead. But there are lessons to be learned from his mistakes. That's how you stay alive in the mountains, learning why others died, or, in Dan-O's case, almost killed their students through negligence or their friends through sheer foolishness.
I would much rather criticize a dead man in order to to save a living person than worship a dead boy who didn't pay attention.
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crackaddict
Mar 8, 2002, 1:57 AM
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Wow! This topic has gotten way out of hand.
I feel like I am on trail now.
Thanks for the defense guys. You're right I do have my civil rights. But, this whole thing has derailed.
Overall most people that made a post respected him for what he did. And big_wall so far the only argument was over me asking the public a question.
These forums have mediators and maybe they should'nt have let me post this topic.
I surely don't want to start any bad blood bettween people on here. I just wanted to hear some oppions since that is what this whole forum thing is about.
Like I said though I did'nt want to be disrespectful.
So I request that out of respect for Dan Osman.
That I retract my question. And That no post be made on this topic anymore.
It's over...
[ This Message was edited by: crackaddict on 2002-03-07 17:58 ]
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