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outhere
Mar 8, 2002, 5:08 PM
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Should we post climbs on the internet? It kinda sucks to be on crowded multi pitch routes. Could this be prevented by not posting climbs on the internet but just letting people discover it own there own by buying guidebooks and going through a little more trouble? I think its great to talk about climbing(gear, technique, etc.)but should we tell people to go here or there? Just wondering.
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metoliusmunchkin
Mar 8, 2002, 5:59 PM
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And you chose to post this into the Technique and Training forum because...
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vaness
Mar 8, 2002, 6:00 PM
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i think we should
the rock is everyones you cant have it all for yourself...even in it is crowded
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outhere
Mar 8, 2002, 6:09 PM
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Sorry, I did not purposely put this under training and technique.
Anyway, trust me I dont want the rock to myself. I think thats wrong but do you think we should tell people to go here or there? I'm not stating an opinion I am just asking a question?
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qacwac
Mar 8, 2002, 6:22 PM
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Let he who has been told none
tell no one.
That's a play on words from when Jesus said, "Let he who has no sin cast the first stone."
I hope no one takes offense at this, I am not trying to be disrespectful.
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metoliusmunchkin
Mar 8, 2002, 7:43 PM
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Outhere: Everyone is entitled to their own personal opinions, and with the following statements, I wish not to discourage you from your beliefs in any way.
I really did not perceive your opinion as a statement of wanting the rock all to yourself. I feel that others greatly misunderstood what you were trying to say.
However, I personally do believe that rock should be advertized within any form of climbing community such as this web site. To advertise climbing crags, or well known climbing routes on any stream of viewers of non-climbing origin would be very wrong to me, for these people have no real intentions, or interest in paying heed this route's advertisement.
For those who greatly enjoy the sport of climbing, advertising routes to a climbing community allows these people to try new things, and climb in areas they have never even heard of before. It is because of this, the generation of new experiences, that I feel the advertisement of climbing to be a great thing.
I myself have exceedingly benefitted from the advertisement of climbing routes, in areas new and estranged to me.
So, yes, I do believe that the advertisement of rock is a great thing to the climbing community, as well as a great benefit to climbers across the globe.
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apollodorus
Mar 8, 2002, 8:58 PM
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This answer relates to surfing, not climbing, but the idea is similar. About 10 miles from where I live is this incredible and rare rock reef that just PUMPS waves in perfect form. For a long time, it was a secret spot. Anybody who showed up with a camera got their tires slashed and their windshield broken, or worse. Then, some of the surfer mags finally sent in the special ops to get the photos and publish them. Guess what? The spot has maybe 5%-10% more people. The bone-breaking falls to the reef keep most of the Gumbies on shore, agape.
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mountainrat
Mar 8, 2002, 11:27 PM
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No.
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mitchal
Mar 9, 2002, 12:09 AM
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I think they should be posted on climbing sites.I was just up at my local crag and thought how nice and empty it was,But,who else could enjoy it if I kept it a secret(if I had been the first to find it).I was told of this spot and have been loving it since.I also never would have known of several other bangin spots if I wasn't told by others.Just my opinion.
Climb Happy
Mitch
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ace-11
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Mar 9, 2002, 12:21 AM
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I think that if you find a really cool place to climb, then you should share it with everyone. Personally, I'm getting quite boared of Squamish and am currently looking for other close-by places to climb at!
[ This Message was edited by: ace-11 on 2002-03-08 16:22 ]
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vaness
Mar 10, 2002, 12:08 AM
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sorry outhere...i didnt mean to be rude...i was just saying that the rock should be for whoever wants to use it...
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crackaddict
Mar 10, 2002, 2:47 AM
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As long as there are guide books being made, climbing gyms getting popular and the internet still functioning. Climbing areas are going to be advertised. I love climbing with no one at my favorite areas and I can't stand log jams on long routes. But, I also like sharing info about an awesome climbs with my friends and with people. It's a vicious cycle. You may delay the info from being posted for a short time. But, eventually someone else is going to find your area and post it. Climbing is growing! Go to your local gym and listen to all the beta being spewed out about all the new areas. When I started climbing the areas were uncrowded, guide books were vauge, and there were few gyms. Now the crags are like gyms on the weekends, the books have pictures, beta, and gear needed, and the gyms are packed. It's only a matter of time! If you do post it on here make sure you tell everyone why this is a special area, how climbing there is a privlage we need to respect the ethics of that area, how they need to be responsible, and take care of it. Hopefully they will listen and help keep how you like it.
My Two Cents!
[ This Message was edited by: crackaddict on 2002-03-09 21:21 ]
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krustyklimber
Mar 10, 2002, 4:56 AM
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As a great man once said "The Earth doesn't belong to us, we belong to the Earth."
This holds true for us, without climbers it's just a rock, not a rock climb. We belong to the crags, and greed is not the way to show your respect.
As a developer of new crags I welcome others, no, I invite you! Want to bag a first accent? I got a whole list of projects,
and I don't mind sharing them. Follow my lead, there's more than enough rock for all of us!
And Outhere if you don't like sharing, then you can always find a secluded little corner of the crag,and be as stingy as you like!
Jeff
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andy_lemon
Mar 10, 2002, 5:01 AM
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This is a common ETHICAL question often spotted on rockclimbing.com, I assume that is why there are no posts by the famous rradam, fiend, trevor, compclimber, etc... They have answered this 1,569,001 times, although, it is a good question. BUT in my opinion:
Major crags such as Red River Gorge, Yosemite, The Gunks, etc. everyone, who has any geographic climbing knowledge, already knows about... so there should be no reason why not to post them. Local Crags which have only a day or weeks worth of climbs should be posted for locals. For instance, Pass The Piton Pete is not going to drive from Canada just to climb at a spot that has a days worth of climbing in Kentucky. On the other hand, he would like to see some info on Red River Gorge.
Now there is a difference between a local crag and a super secret crag. If it is a super secret crag then no, it should not be posted... you would be in violation of section code 90210-69 of the Secret Sport Climber's Society , ending up in Tire Slashing .
Also you must fear the people that can not differ between a local crag and a super secret crag. Alot of the Climbing Mafia from Indiana (which you can read about on Indiana's route's page) beleive that local crags should not be posted on the WWW. They beleive people such as YOU and I will be violating their local climbing areas and causing dreaded access issues.
TO LEARN A LITTLE MORE ABOUT WHAT I'M SAYING:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=3361&forum=27&25
Hope that helped
Andy
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socialclimber
Mar 10, 2002, 9:15 AM
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In the case of my local climbing area, the internet would be about the only way to keep up with crag devlopment. In 1998 a guide listing every one of the 1000+ climbs in the Port Hills was produced. By 2002 the author of the guide book knows of more than 400 new routes.
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mountainrat
Mar 10, 2002, 1:30 PM
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Let me qualify my answer in terms of mountain biking: "Secret trails," built by a handful of people, are the true gems of mountain biking, in my opinion. They are usually ultra-technical, free of litter, etc., and free of crowds. People really into the sport usually get turned on to said trails eventually, through conversations with other bikers, logging lots of riding hours, and sometimes simply searching. That said, highly advertised trails often get littered up, become eroded as a result of uninformed alterations, like removing rocks, roots, etc. to make a section "easier." But how does this relate to rock climbing? These evils seem to happen more frequently on advertised trails, and less frequently on trails known only to the "seekers" among us. It seems as though "seekers" are more likely to be conscientious, environmentally aware, and respectful; people who are too lazy to seek and find for themselves may in some degree be too lazy to treat the rock, the trail, the creek, whatever, with the respect I believe it is due. That is why I do NOT think routes should be advertised. When it comes to the stewardship of nature, I am very selfish; I'm old enough to realize that all people aren't to be trusted automatically. I especially do not trust people who don't have the initiative to find what they're looking for, no matter what obstacles may present themselves. Peace and love, all.
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