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Webbing cost and use of webbing toes questions
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ryanhurl


Dec 30, 2003, 9:59 AM
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Webbing cost and use of webbing toes questions
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Sorry if this has been covered before, but I tried to back track and research.

First, What is a good price on webbing by the foot? I saw someone got some for $0.21/foot. my local place wants $0.35 plus outrageous TN sales tax (over 9%) so i was hesitant.

Second, how are the double toe ends on commercially avail products used? I understand single toe is for the non tensioning end, while double is used to create the tension. So I guess the question is, what are the mechanics used?

Thanks!


jansuw


Dec 30, 2003, 10:14 AM
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Re: Webbing cost and use of webbing toes questions [In reply to]
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my local place wants $0.35 plus outrageous TN sales tax (over 9%) so i was hesitant.

Thats probably a lot, you can save a ton by buying a whole reel online. But anyway, 9% isnt that much. I wish Finland only had 9% sales tax, climbing gear gets 22%... :)

Jansu


Partner one900johnnyk


Dec 30, 2003, 10:16 AM
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webbing at .35 is std for a local shop in my experience. you can get it cheaper on the internet and if you're buying enough shipping may be worth it (gearexpress has free shipping on orders over 30 bucks or something)... the second part i don't know exactly what you're talking about... a dogbone or a webolette?? or something i have no clue about. gimme a picture!


Partner slacklinejoe


Dec 30, 2003, 10:20 AM
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He's using the termiology from www.notforclimbing.com

I've seen them use those terms but no where else, and they trade marketed (or at least market it as so) them so I doubt the name usage catches on.

It's just a sewn loop. If you want them, find a good alterterations shop near by that can do bar-tack stiches and other handle extremely heavy duty stitching and thread. The place I use for my gear can sewn through 1.5" of leather, but it can be a little pricey per stitch.


therealbovine


Dec 30, 2003, 10:57 AM
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Any price less than .30 per foot for 1" tubular webbing is pretty good, albeit its out there for cheaper if you dig deep enough.

The "toes" used by NFC are thier answer to conection points for whatever tension system you choose to use with thier slacklines. The second "toe" does not have to be used, but is there for use as you wish. To the best of my knowledge they do not currently offer a tesioning system. Talking to the guys @ NFC they seemed psyched about trying to eliminate any "metal" from thier slackline rigs, thus tying the endpoints off directly to tree slings etc. This seems a bit disturbing to me, as we all know that conecting webbing to webbing at points of motion is an accident waiting to happen. I'm sure that we will see some changes evolve with NFC's products in the future.

The only complete/fully adjustable slackline rig with a tension system, tree slings and no knots - which uses full strength hardware and is easy to use is the Deluxe from http://www.ethosclimbing.com You might give they're proven design a try if you are in the market for a pre-made rig.

Otherwise, its always good to figure out how to tie your own with webbing by the foot! Best of luck!


Partner j_ung


Dec 30, 2003, 11:51 AM
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Talking to the guys @ NFC they seemed psyched about trying to eliminate any "metal" from thier slackline rigs, thus tying the endpoints off directly to tree slings etc. This seems a bit disturbing to me, as we all know that conecting webbing to webbing at points of motion is an accident waiting to happen.

Hmm... seems like it would be pretty simple problem to get around with a plastic sleeve or two. Anyway, wrong forum. My bad.


Partner one900johnnyk


Dec 30, 2003, 11:52 AM
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Any price less than .30 per foot for 1" tubular webbing is pretty good, albeit its out there for cheaper if you dig deep enough.

The "toes" used by NFC are thier answer to conection points for whatever tension system you choose to use with thier slacklines. The second "toe" does not have to be used, but is there for use as you wish. To the best of my knowledge they do not currently offer a tesioning system. Talking to the guys @ NFC they seemed psyched about trying to eliminate any "metal" from thier slackline rigs, thus tying the endpoints off directly to tree slings etc. This seems a bit disturbing to me, as we all know that conecting webbing to webbing at points of motion is an accident waiting to happen. I'm sure that we will see some changes evolve with NFC's products in the future.

The only complete/fully adjustable slackline rig with a tension system, tree slings and no knots - which uses full strength hardware and is easy to use is the Deluxe from http://www.ethosclimbing.com You might give they're proven design a try if you are in the market for a pre-made rig.

Otherwise, its always good to figure out how to tie your own with webbing by the foot! Best of luck!

ahhh it appears i've accidentally wandered into the slacklining forum.. woops


ryanhurl


Dec 30, 2003, 12:52 PM
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Thanks for all the info everyone. Reason why i asked was I have a sewwing machine and have used some very strong line I was going to use to fashion my own crap to see if I really enjoy it before buying a kit. I've tried it a few times and have yet to be very good so hopefully the practice will pay off.

terminology i was talking about was on notforclimbing.com. I dunno why there's such a big fuss over no metal either. Seems to make everything a pain in the a$$ to tension. Using my physics knowledge I think I can make the thing work with some sort of mechanical advantage between the "toes". Anyways, Thanks for all the info everyone.....


areyoumydude


Dec 30, 2003, 5:57 PM
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Taking the metal out of your system is a personal choice. The claim that it is unsafe is unfounded. Most of the highlines in Yosemite and Moab are rigged this way. That is where we got the idea from. It took some time to figure out the best way to tie it off and still be able to release the webbing. There are different types of release knots. We use a trucker hitch with several wraps and tie it off with a slip knot.When the tied off line is under tension there is no webbing on webbing friction. Granted, when you release the trucker hitch you must go slow to prevent burning. We have been tieing our lines off like this for over a year and a half of intense slacking and have never had a problem. You might see some changes evolve with us as therealbovine claims but it will not be with this system.
By the way, we have300' spools of unspliced webbing for $74.95 and $0.35 per foot.
Larry
notforclimbing.com


therealbovine


Jan 2, 2004, 7:29 AM
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areyoumydude,

You state that you have not had any problems with tying off your slacklines with webbing on webbing. I beleive you. Just because we have had multiple lines fail when we've used your method does not mean that it will always happen. We used to rig lines in Yosemite valley with your technique all the time, because we knew of the possibility that a ranger might cut the thing down and we'd loose our hardware. I remember two instances were these lines broke at the anchor, from the friction caused during use with webbing on webbing tie-offs. This process does not happen overnight, however in time in can happen, and I feel like it is my obligation to let the masses know of this possibility. Of course this is slacklining, and carabiners break, knots fail and/or break, webbing cuts and people fall. Its all just a part of the sport. Risks we all seem to be willing to take. Risks this forum helps us to understand.


areyoumydude


Jan 2, 2004, 5:57 PM
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therealbovine,
We've kind of got away from the subject of this thread. I don't think you understand the system we use. We have set up hundreds of lines. We normally set three to four lines up in one session. All were tied off with a soft point. When the line is set there is no friction in the system.Do you clip your rope into your harness or do you tie directly in? Do you clip your daisy chain into your harness or do you girth hitch it? Its all nylon on nylon.If you like metal in your system LEAVE IT IN. I don't.

Larry
notforclimbing.com


slab-dyno
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Jan 2, 2004, 7:59 PM
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areyoumydude,

I understand the point that you're trying to make about nylon on nylon with your harness tie in, but the friction is greatly increased by the constant rubbing of nylon on nylon at high tension in a slack line. When I walk a line, I tend to jump and surf the line a lot, and it seems that the nylon on nylon could weaken the system a lot over time. But who really cares anyway...it's only a few feet to the ground.

Jimmy


therealbovine


Jan 3, 2004, 8:31 AM
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Yep, wer'e off the subject Larry. Can you give us a good understanding of how your "toes" work, and if you offer a tensioning system with you lines or if you recommend a certain system to those using your NFC lines? Thanks.


areyoumydude


Jan 6, 2004, 11:28 PM
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Sean,

The single toe is for simply anchoring off. The Camel Toe has two toes which gives you versatility in the tensioning system. If pulleys are being used the Camel Toe spreads out the system keeping it from getting bunched up. It also makes it easier to tie the line off.
We have a various assortment of pulleys and locking carabiners plus instructions for different tensioning systems.

Larry
notforclimbing.com


areyoumydude


Jan 15, 2004, 7:07 PM
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It's just a sewn loop. If you want them, find a good alterterations shop near by that can do bar-tack stiches and other handle extremely heavy duty stitching and thread. The place I use for my gear can sewn through 1.5" of leather, but it can be a little pricey per stitch.

At Not For Climbing we sew our slacklines ourself. We also sew all of our slings and runners.All of our gear is tested and designed for slacklining. Slackline Joe is right about having your line sewn at an alteration shop being expensive. If you want afordable sewn slacklines that have been tested check us out.

Larry
notforclimbing.com


Partner slacklinejoe


Jan 15, 2004, 8:44 PM
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Larry,

I figured I would just throw this in for kicks but one of my friends runs the alteration shop we use - we worked out a very good deal and we've never had a flaw through them.

I started off doing 100% of it myself but we changed designs that would require sewing through 4 layers of webbing on our sewn loops on the main line and my machine just couldn't handle it well so I decided that it was better for me to add an extra $1 to overall cost for my customers to have the best possible quality stitching.

I'm still considering buying a new machine to handle it, but at the moment it just isn't economical to do so.

To anyone considering having their lines sewn, make sure they know exactly how important strength is - around here sewn loops can go for $5-10 each for someone coming off the street.


areyoumydude


Jan 15, 2004, 8:53 PM
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Right on Joe,
That sounds like the average price. If you do the math we sew our lines cheaper than that.
Peace,
Larry


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