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metoliusmunchkin


Mar 16, 2002, 9:18 AM
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Belayer Weight to Climber Weight Ratio
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My dad, unfortunately has nobody to belay for him. This is quite unfortunate because while at the crag, he is limited only to boulder upon the big routes, rather than ascend to their tops.

Am I too light to belay for him? This is the question that we have answered affirmatively to, and is why my dad is so limited to bouldering at the crag.

My dad weighs around 140 lbs., and I weigh around 100 lbs., and our belay device is the Petzl Gri-Gri.

Is it possible for me to belay for him? What is the ratio for climber, to belayer in order for the belay system to work?

P.S. This question came to me, when one of the staff for a gym that I like to climb in said that you can belay someone that is double your weight. How can this be true?

[ This Message was edited by: metoliusmunchkin on 2002-03-16 09:20 ]


andrejka


Mar 16, 2002, 9:28 AM
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My weight is 55 kg, which should be about 100 pounds. I have absolutely no problem to belay guys weighting around 80-90 kg when using gri-gri.


gilthanass


Mar 16, 2002, 9:39 AM
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   to be safe you could always anchor yourself while on belay to a tree or a large rock. I weight 160-170 and my friend (100 pounds at most) can belay me. It has to do with the friction in the system, it is not a perfectly frictionless system, so you won't just balence out like you would on a scale.

Steve


treyr


Mar 16, 2002, 10:12 AM
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Just anchor in and you should be fine

Trob


case22


Mar 16, 2002, 10:54 AM
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My partner is almost 180 lbs. and I only weigh 120. We do fine when we're climbing together. We just always make sure to anchor into something to be sure that we're safe.


nikegirl


Mar 16, 2002, 11:28 AM
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I was climbing with Tradgirl and her friend, about two weeks ago...and when we we're trading off belaying...he looked at me...Said "YOUR"RE gonna belay me ????"
I looked at him: 220 lbs. me: 115!!! I said "NOT!!!"
He looked relieved.
hee hee
I could anchor, but, he still looked uncomfortable with the idea.

rrradam anchored me to a rock in JT... that was nice, feeling like I had a secure belay going on...for Jaybee.

Safety.
and great guidance, too.
T



daisuke


Mar 16, 2002, 11:47 AM
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you can safely belay someone twice your weight if you learn to belay correctly, that means knowing just how to brake someone heavier when they fall. you have to give them some rope when they fall and progressively tighten it so both that and the rope's stretch take the force of the fall.
Also, when someone falls don't get all stiff, just relax and let the rope pull on you a bit so that you take a step forward.

if you can belay sitting down wedge your feet against something. and the fall will simply stand you up at the worst as long as you dynamize the belay.

Cheers!
D


climbchick


Mar 16, 2002, 12:21 PM
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I weigh 120lb and I've belayed a 210lb guy with no problem (using a ground anchor). I once belayed a guy who weighs around 180lb with no anchor and when he fell he yanked me about a foot off the ground. Nothing bad happenend, but I prefer using a ground anchor.


metoliusmunchkin


Mar 16, 2002, 12:46 PM
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And... without a ground anchor?


miagi


Mar 16, 2002, 1:11 PM
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Another thing not covered in the previous posts. You should be fine if you belay him but DO NOT LEAVE SLACK in the system. Me and my partner are 20 pounds different and the slack in the system from him falling (1 foot) brought me off the ground. Make sure you keep the slack up and anchor yourself just to be safe.


climber_girl


Mar 16, 2002, 3:28 PM
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well, i have heard and what i follow is that you cna belay anybody 100 pounds heavier, but no more. otherwise when they take that whipper ur gonna FLY! trust me, i've learned. Just thought i'd let ya know!!

Brittany


i.karen
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Mar 16, 2002, 3:34 PM
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And with out a ground anchor!!

My husband has taken some big falls leading and I feel very secure with out a ground anchor. If you pay attention to the person climbing most of the time you know they are going to fall before they do. For lead belaying always stay under the first clip(if not it will pull you toward the wall). I use the sitting method!! If a fall occurs bend your knees and sit. If you are pulled up into the air all you have to do is lower yourself back down. Always pay attention to the climber and don't leave a lot of slack in the rope.

Kay


kaptk


Mar 16, 2002, 4:51 PM
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Why can't you use a ground anchor?
Is there nothing around to anchor to?

There is no set percentage or difference in weights that one can give as the answer. There are factors involved that change all the time. One is how much friction the system has and another is how far the climber falls. I've belayed people that were forty to fifty pounds heavier than me on a top rope system without an anchor, but I wouldn't want to belay them on lead without one. The best answer is to use an anchor.


metoliusmunchkin


Mar 16, 2002, 8:45 PM
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That's just it! In most situations, there are no anchors present to allow me to safely belay my father. This was the general idea for what this forum was started for.

So, what most of you are saying, is that it is okay to belay for my dad without an anchor? Although I do thoroughly understand that you guys are also saying that wherever possible, it is a necessity that I use an anchor to belay my father.

...was blind but now I see...


dustinap
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Mar 16, 2002, 9:47 PM
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First of all, I wouldn't recommend you use a grigri for trad climbing, or sport climbing if the bolts are old, sucky and or rusty. This is another thread all in it's own though.

I'm 118, and typically belay guys from 175 to 219. The guy that is 180 we sometimes use an anchor or not. If we push into 5.11 I'll find a way to anchor in. If it's multipitch, we just make a multidirectional anchor. If it's single pitch, there is usually a tree, rock, or bolt in the ground that could be used. If not, I'll just stand close to the wall, and keep neiled down waiting for a fall.

If I'm leading, it doesn't matter. I'm not pulling a 180-210+lbs guy off the ground. Now, if his wife is belaying me, then we have another story.

If you are top roping, which then he could just belay himself, you should not need to anchor, just stand close to the wall. If it's single pitch, just be ready to catch a fall, and an anchor would be a great idea.

If it's multipitch you should have a omnidirectional anchor anyways.

Hope this helps alittle, and didn't just repeat the earlier posts
Dustin


jt512


Mar 17, 2002, 10:32 AM
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Metolius, your Dad weighs about 40% more than you. You should be able to belay him safely without anchoring. Be sure to stand near the wall and under the first piece of pro, so that when he falls you will be pulled up and not into the wall. I'm comfortable belaying leaders who weigh up to about 40% more than me without anchoring. Much more than that, I prefer to be anchored.

You should generally not sit when the leader falls. This may work well for Karen and Adam, who have a lot experience climbing together, but as a general rule, this is a dangerous practice. Sitting, or pulling back, when the leader falls, greatly increases the impact force of the fall and, if the route is near vertical to overhanging, will violently swing the leader into the wall. This is the most common cause of injury in sport climbing.

-Jay


maculated


Mar 17, 2002, 10:49 AM
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I agree with everyone here about being able to belay without an anchor (I am assuming this is ground belaying) - however:

One of my regular climbing partners can't have more than 20 pounds on me, but lead climbing, he's taken some nice whippers, and I got lifted off the ground about four feet. It does happen. But it happens for specific reasons, and you need to be able to gauge your risk of this and decide what to do.

If you can't be directly under your climber when belaying, get as close as possible. The further out, the more power the pull (this is what sent me flying).

Have something to brace again, a rock, a tree.

If your belay isn't looking favorable, then look around for an anchor. Yesterday I was out at this awesome looking, but mungy, route and there wasn't a lot I could do to anchor and my belay ledge was a bit sketchy. I just repositioned myself based on the idea that the fall factor was high (lichen is slipper), and there was a way to brace myself against the rock in the event my leader falls and pulls me up.

Technique has a lot to do with it, getting the rope to take on the shock, as others were saying. Overall, 40 lbs should be fine for you to manage.


metoliusmunchkin


Mar 17, 2002, 11:38 AM
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My dad and I, at the moment, mainly top rope, although are considering moving into the realm of leading soon.

[ This Message was edited by: metoliusmunchkin on 2002-03-17 11:39 ]


maculated


Mar 17, 2002, 11:48 AM
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Oh, then in that case, you should be TOTALLY fine. Top rope doesn't generate the kind of fall force that you'd have to be wary of with lead climbing.


princesslisa


Mar 17, 2002, 12:08 PM
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What is more important? Providing a dynamic belay for your leader- or making sure you as a belayer don't leave the ground?


daggerx


Mar 17, 2002, 5:32 PM
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My weight is 185-190 lbs and my partner is only 100lbs at most and she can belay me, if your concerned anchor your self when your dad climbs.


maculated


Mar 17, 2002, 6:05 PM
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Lisa, belayer leaving ground spells trouble. Dynamic belay is a good thing, but a belayer who maintains control of the falling leader throughout the process is FAR more importatnt.

[ This Message was edited by: maculated on 2002-03-17 18:05 ]


jt512


Mar 17, 2002, 6:24 PM
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No, the belayer leaving the ground should not be a problem, and, in fact, is a perfectly acceptable way to give a dynamic belay. If you get picked up and swung into the wall, just put your legs out in front of you to absorb the impact. It's no big deal.

-Jay


redzit


Mar 17, 2002, 6:42 PM
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Munch
if you can't find a place to tie your self down then try the next best thing
get a friend for fellow climber to attach them selves in on an sling to your harness. there should be a full strength loop on the back of your harness. use a sling that is a comfy length, not to personal, and just keep the slack short.
or just get some one to hold you when you think your dad is going to fall. i do it at the gym all the time.

hope your dad came reach those peaks,
Kevin


rockjock04


Mar 17, 2002, 6:58 PM
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I weigh about 82 pounds last week. and I dont think ive gained any since then. On top-rope, I belay my friend who weighs 160 with nothing but a figure eight(which we accidently had threaded like its supposed to be used on rappel) so there wasn't to much friction going on there. we even climb with alot of slack in the rope to simulate a "lead fall" (in ohio its the closest well ever get). Just be careful of the circle goes straigth effect. If hes pullin from your belay loop at the front, and your anchor is tied to the back of your harness, if he falls, your harness is going to squeeze your sides in like pudding.

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