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Passing a knot on top rope
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radistrad


Mar 19, 2002, 5:07 PM
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Passing a knot on top rope
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Sometime I find my self top roping climbs that are over 100' tall ( One 60 meter rope would top rope this), usually they are 150', a full pitch. So to top rope these climbs I must tie two ropes togeather. Top roping with two ropes tied togeather means that the belayer has to pass a knot. I have developed a system to do this in a quick and safe way.
You need a Gri Gri and a ATC or similar belay device.
What I do is place the rope throught the Gri Gri (attached to my crotch and waist loop on the harness) and tell the climber to climb, when he approaches the knot I give a warning shout to let him know that I am passing the knot. (I leave the rope in the Gri Gri, so if he falls while I am passing the knot the Gri Gri will lock him off.) I stick the rope into the ATC (attached to my belay loop) and put him on belay, he then continues to climb. The whole process takes just a few seconds and the climber is never off of belay, even thought I need two hands to put the rope in the ATC, he is always on the Gri Gri.
It is important to note that wile you are hooking up the ATC you must not put a finger in the loop of rope that you created in the ATC to attach to the 'biner, if he falls while you are swaping and your finger is in the ATC rope loop you can kiss you finger good bye, but you wont drop your climber 'cause he is on the Gri Gri.
To pass the knot back through for lowering the climber, reverse the process. The only issue is the climber needs to get back on the rock so you can pull the rope out of the ATC. Lower him the rest of the way with the Gri Gri.
I hope this can help someone, or if any one has any ideas to add please post 'em. Its slow at work so I decided to put this useless info out the the RC.com community.

[ This Message was edited by: radistrad on 2002-03-19 17:08 ]

[ This Message was edited by: radistrad on 2002-03-19 17:19 ]


gekolimit


Mar 19, 2002, 5:21 PM
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sounds cool, i'll remember that,


smithclimber


Mar 19, 2002, 5:53 PM
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There are better ways to deal with TRing routes over 100 feet tall.


The first solution is similar to yours, but you employ two Gri Gris. One Gri Gri is placed at the opposite end of the same rope (let's say it's green) that the climber is tied into. It is positioned right next to the knot that joins the two ropes. The second rope (let's say it's red) uses the second Gri Gri. Hint: Make the locking biner that goes on the green rope's Gri Gri a biner that is easy for you to clip/unclip to your belay loop with one hand (specifically, your non-dominant hand).


The second solution requires only one belay device and eliminates the need for ANY changeovers at all and is as follows:
Pull the green rope until the knot joining both ropes hits the anchor way up there. Have the climber clip into the green rope using a butterfly knot (or fig. 8 on a bight, whatever) and two locking carabiners as high as reasonably possible. The climber will be trailing any remaining green rope below him/her. Now the climber should be clipped into the green rope which is pulled fairly taut against the anchors. The belayer belays on the red rope with whatever belay device as normal. When the climber arrives at the anchor, the knot joining the ropes will be at the belayer's belay device.

Summary of method #2: The climber goes from the ground to the anchor. The knot (joining the ropes) goes from the anchor to the ground. The climber simply trails excess green rope below them. Best of all, the belayer never has to screw with any crap while the climber is climbing. Simple enough.

Dr. Piton, zees iz za betta way, non?

[ This Message was edited by: smithclimber on 2002-03-19 18:08 ]

[ This Message was edited by: smithclimber on 2002-03-23 02:02 ]


jcclimber


Mar 20, 2002, 3:22 PM
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I have run into this situation also, and I have to say that I agree with Smithclimber!! His way is what I was taught, and I totally thik that it is the safest, best, and most effectient way of doing things!

jake out


mauriceb


Mar 25, 2002, 12:01 AM
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I understand the concept explained but how would a climber set this top rope? Specifically, if I am leading a climb and know that the rope isn't long enough for my belayer to lower me all the way to the ground what are my options?

Maybe start with a second rope and rappel of the anchor?


reno


Mar 25, 2002, 2:04 AM
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Couldn't you lead the climb, get to the anchor, and tie into the anchor (cordlette?). Then have your belay man tie HIS end of the lead rope to the second rope (i.e., tie the end of the green rope to the red rope) with double fisherman knot. Then at the anchor, you pull up the green rope until the knot is at the anchor. Clip both in, switch to the ropes, untie from the anchor, and rap down.

Am I missing something?

JRB


radistrad


Mar 25, 2002, 6:44 AM
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reno, you can not pull the second rope up through the gear the leader placed, the knot will not go through the 'biners.

smith, I like your second idea, its quite reasonable and sounds safe. Your first idea I dont like. I would not leave my $70 Gri Gri and my $15 'biner atached to the rope to get banged against the rock as I am pulling in the slack.

mauriceb, when I do this I clip the second rope to my haul loop and lead up with it. This way I have both ropes at the anchor, I set up my anchor and rap the route, usually cleaning the gear on my way down. Also the second could follow the pitch and bring the second rope.


reno


Mar 25, 2002, 10:15 AM
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Thanks, radistrad....I'm glad someone managed to set me straight!

Or, in the words of a great American... "Doh!"

Best,

JRB


jumaringjeff


Mar 25, 2002, 12:27 PM
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rangerrob,

My take on this discussion is that the TR is rigged first. In other words, at this particular crag, it's possible to hike around the cliff to reach the top and set your anchors, feed the rope down, etc. Then you would hike back down (or rap) and THEN climb on the TR.

There are lots of places like that around here, which is good for us climbers that don't have the knowledge or the 'stones' to lead yet...

Happy jumaring,
jj



radistrad


Mar 25, 2002, 12:45 PM
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jummaringjeff,
These top rope systems will work on what ever you can top rope. If you can walk to the anchors, great, if you lead to the anchors, great. Either way you are good to go.


mauriceb


Mar 25, 2002, 1:19 PM
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Radistrad - Thanks for the reply. I knew I had read this before somewhere but since I haven't had the need to use this particular technique it slipped my mind.


dustinap
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Mar 25, 2002, 1:49 PM
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I'd really suggest using a belay loop if your harness has one for this procedure. It's not only safer, but easier to switch the carabiner and belay device on and off.


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