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dirtineye
Jan 27, 2004, 4:52 PM
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I 'm posting this because of the thread about warriors way and butt lint, which I am pretty sure was supposed to be offensive to those who attempt to follow ww principles.
I posted a reply in that thread, and I'm posting here for one, bacause I am lucky enough to live in the south and get to see and talk to Arno from time ti time, and so I know he has a great sense of humor, and, he has the ability to step back, not take himself too seriously, and laugh at himself.
This is one of the qualities about Arno that I really try to emulate, in terms of climbing as well as in other aspects of life.
If you think about it, the ability to step back and reassess is involved here. Being able to laugh at one's self is a sure sign that you are not all bound up in ego driven activity-- the ego takes itself very seriously and hstes being laughed at.
So anyway, I'm wondering if any others in here have any thoughts on the subject?
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lou_dale
Jan 29, 2004, 12:28 AM
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having another wow moment...........like you say in your signature,
ignore the idiots......i'm glad i haven't seen anything about
??? butt lint ???? glad i missed it and would hate a visual
on that.
i agree - ego has no sense of humor and as i continue to learn about ego and shhhhhhush it more effectively as time goes on - i'm able to laugh a whole lot more, especially at myself.
life is too much fun to not laugh at yourself.........
thanks again for your thoughts.
lou
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iamthewallress
Jan 29, 2004, 2:51 AM
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I guess I missed the butt lint threat too. The idea of it made me laugh. What was the verdict on butt lint? Good or bad for your climbing psyche?
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dirtineye
Jan 29, 2004, 4:42 PM
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HEHE well, don't get all mad whe you read it or anything, I mean, that would be a waste of energy and all that.
I've talked with arno about a RWW parody, in fact, he came up with the idea while with Jim Corbett and myself, on a cold wet rainy day while we climbed up cold wet lichen covered rock. Arno had led thie nice little 5.8 arrete ( cold wet AND slick makes 5,8 a bit more interesting) called beaver cleaver at Lost Wall Ga. WHile he was belaying us up, Arno saind maybe he sould do a book called the Rock Whiner's Way, that would be the antithesis of the Rock Warrior's Way. IT was pretty funny, and every time I'd say, " Man this rock is COLD!", or something like that, he'd come out with a comment about the journey or self talk or some other RWW idea that was a little joke.
So when I saw the but lint thread, I was sort of prepared to turn it into something funny. Hope you enjoy it.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=611442&highlight=#611442
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joe
Feb 14, 2004, 10:05 PM
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i saw the thread and thought it was funny. i think anyone who has made a sincere attempt to understand the WW principles would laugh too.
i used to take myself and my abilities too seriously. sometimes i'd get spanked when attempting a route that is supposedly withing my ability. i'd hang on the rope, kick the rock, berate myself for performing poorly, and basically act like an infant.
i've learned to accept that sometimes i won't perform up to my "percieved" ability. now, when i fall or hang on a route that i can usually flash, i just laugh at myself and just accept it as a lesson in humility and a reminder that i can't always perform up to my level. laughter is a much better way to stay positive and remember that i'm just out having fun, not feeding my ego.
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dirtineye
Feb 15, 2004, 3:43 AM
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In reply to: i've learned to accept that sometimes i won't perform up to my "percieved" ability. now, when i fall or hang on a route that i can usually flash, i just laugh at myself and just accept it as a lesson in humility and a reminder that i can't always perform up to my level. laughter is a much better way to stay positive and remember that i'm just out having fun, not feeding my ego.
AMEN to that.
I'll tell you a story that was a kind of turning point for me with climbing and with Arno. We had an SCC meeting jan before last, and Arno was there. SOme peopel like to play chess at these things. Well it just so happens taht I was once a fair tournament chess player. Most people that never played in tournaments don't do very well playing against peopel who have sutided the game for years, and I was cleaning up. Some people get pretty upset when they don't win at a game they think they are good at.
So anyway, Arno and I were playing a game, and he was getting his butt kicked. Instead of getting upset, he started making a joke about how going for it and not thinking too much was maybe better in climbing than in chess, and we had a lot of good laughs, and right there I realized that Arno does not take himself too seriously, and that he can laugh at himself, and that he lives what he teaches in the warrior's way method about ego involvement and all that. Well, from that day on I have just totally respected his manner and outlook and his writing and teaching.
I have tried to keep an Arno like perspective on my climbing, and it has helped me tremendously, especially in dealing with the road back from injury, and accident.
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joe
Feb 17, 2004, 1:48 AM
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i had an experience with this as well...
i was in indian creek once watching this guy who was supposedly a really good climber rack up for the notorious Coyne Crack. he started laybacking up the start, got up about ten feet and fell. he tried again and failed to make any significant progress. i sensed his frustration and expected him to go into hysterics, punching the wall, swearing, blaming external factors, the whole nine. instead, he just shouted "man, this thing is RAD!!!" it totally made an impression on me.
to this day, whenever i find myself flailing, hanging on gear and feeling frustrated, instead of saying "oh man i suck" or "this thing is hard!" i vocalize what i like about the climb. i say stupid things like "this crack climb is really challenging me today!" or "i am getting my money's worth on this thing!". then i laugh and the frustration eases up. helps remind me how dumb it is to get so worked up about this silly sport we love.
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unabonger
Feb 19, 2004, 2:22 PM
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In reply to: I 'm posting this because of the thread about warriors way and butt lint, which I am pretty sure was supposed to be offensive to those who attempt to follow ww principles.
It's kind of surprising to me when people are offended at this sort of stuff. I think it is hilarious and it never occured to me to be offended - though I realize others could be. I guess its a matter of temperment and attitude and I count myself fortunate to not take things like this too seriously.
UB
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unabonger
Feb 19, 2004, 2:27 PM
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In reply to: "i am getting my money's worth on this thing!". then i laugh and the frustration eases up. helps remind me how dumb it is to get so worked up about this silly sport we love.
It's not dumb but it is a question of values--getting worked up over what you value is what drives us--they key is to identify those values. Do you value merely getting up the route cleanly? Or do you value the complete experience--effort, learning, comradarie, sunshine.
At the end of the day or season or year or weekend, does it matter that you got a specific route? Or is it more important that you offered the best effort you could every moment?
UB
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joe
Feb 19, 2004, 9:52 PM
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In reply to: do you value the complete experience--effort, learning, comradarie, sunshine.
yes. way more than just "ticking the route".
In reply to: At the end of the day or season or year or weekend, does it matter that you got a specific route?
sometimes. only because i know that the amount of time i have on this planet in finite, rather than for reasons to "be done with it."
i'm in my early thirties so i know it's ridiculous to feel like my "biological clock" is ticking for the routes i want to do, but it does weigh on me. that's why i love seeing guys in their 40s doing hard routes, climbing el cap in a day or spending a season in patagonia.
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dirtineye
Feb 19, 2004, 10:49 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I 'm posting this because of the thread about warriors way and butt lint, which I am pretty sure was supposed to be offensive to those who attempt to follow ww principles. It's kind of surprising to me when people are offended at this sort of stuff. I think it is hilarious and it never occured to me to be offended - though I realize others could be. I guess its a matter of temperment and attitude and I count myself fortunate to not take things like this too seriously. UB
'm not sure what you mean. The original post about ww and butt lint was aimed at getting rid of this forum, and I thought that post was kind of offensive. This is maybe the best forum if you go by content to noise ratioi.
The parody is what I wrote to answer that guy's question and make a joke, and I put it here to illustrate the idea of not taking RWW stuff or yourself too seriously.
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unabonger
Feb 20, 2004, 5:06 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: It's kind of surprising to me when people are offended at this sort of stuff. I think it is hilarious and it never occured to me to be offended - though I realize others could be. I guess its a matter of temperment and attitude and I count myself fortunate to not take things like this too seriously. UB 'm not sure what you mean. The original post about ww and butt lint was aimed at getting rid of this forum, and I thought that post was kind of offensive. This is maybe the best forum if you go by content to noise ratioi. The parody is what I wrote to answer that guy's question and make a joke, and I put it here to illustrate the idea of not taking RWW stuff or yourself too seriously.
I meant exactly what I said. I simply didn't take any offense at what organic posted. If I thought there would have been a chance in hell that his off-base suggestion to can the WW forum would be taken seriously I might have been disappointed, but I certainly wasn't offended. I was amused.
Your parody was a fun contribution.
In general I think taking offense to these sorts of things, or even outright insults, is useless. Sort of like worrying. I strive to not let others words have an affect on me, my goals, my learning--it can certainly be hard sometimes but one of my values is that others actions and words should never be taken personally, save for the case of using force or deception or coercion, and then some defense is of course necessary.
The RarelyOffendedBonger
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vivalargo
Feb 20, 2004, 6:08 PM
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Not being able to laugh at yourself is probably not, strictly speaking, a function of "ego," rather a reaction of -- in old Psychodynamic terms -- the Superego, now commonly called the Inner Critic. I personally think one cannot get too far down the esoteric path without embracing this amazing, universal energy. Two books spell out the basics of working with the Critic: Embracing your Inner Critic, by Hal Stone, and Soul without Shame, by Byron Brown.
JL
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curt
Feb 22, 2004, 3:45 AM
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Particularly as it relates to climbing, I am a little surprised that nobody has yet pointed out the obvious. It is entirely possible to take things quite seriously (i.e be type A, competitive, etc.) and at the same time sometimes laugh at yourself. I don't personally find these two concepts mutually exclusive at all.
Curt
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