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vegastradguy
Feb 5, 2004, 12:02 AM
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this isnt a question of what you SHOULD do or HOW you should do it. the question is whether you have FREE climbed a route if you did it on top rope.
by definition, if you climb a route without using gear for assistance, REGARDLESS of whether you are leading it or following it, you have free climbed that route.
i can't believe this has turned into a debate over which is better style, TR or lead... :roll:
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abalch
Feb 5, 2004, 12:04 AM
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In reply to: good lord, free climbing is free climbing, regardless if you're leading or seconding. if what everyone is saying is true, then who out there could ever claim a complete free ascent of anything bigger than a single pitch, unless they were free soloing or leading every pitch? i'd have to scratch of 90% of my climbing resume and put it under...partially free ascents....no thanks. i've free climbed everything on my list except my Moonlight Buttress and a couple of short practice aid pitches.
You got it--that's why you usually hear of the belayer of some big name redpoint jumaring or seconding every pitch. It keeps it clearly a redpoint for the leader. Coure, all this worrying about these little technicalities keep us all from what is the primary focus of rockclimbing ----climbing rock!!! Just get out there, climb stuff, and if you swung pitches with your belayer, say, "we climbed that route", plain and simple.
Now, in some areas, there are routes that have only ever been climbed as a toprope. If that is the case, and you top rope that route, I would say you did climb it in the same style as the first ascenscionist, provided they top roped it. it isn't as mentally committing to take the soft end of the rope, but you still climbed it the way the route originally was climbed.
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aznrockclimber82
Feb 5, 2004, 12:06 AM
Post #28 of 150
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Sorry Vegastrad, just trying to give some resolution...does it really matter? "Make moves, not War" right?
Gecko's Rule
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rokshoxbkr19
Feb 5, 2004, 12:08 AM
Post #29 of 150
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DUDE, YOU HAVE NOT FREE CLIMBED A ROUTE IF YOU TOP ROPED IT. THAT CONTRADICTS THE ENTIRE DEFINTION OF FREEING A ROUTE. COME ONE!!!, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT STYLE, JUST TRUTH
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curt
Feb 5, 2004, 12:10 AM
Post #30 of 150
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In reply to: DUDE, YOU HAVE NOT FREE CLIMBED A ROUTE IF YOU TOP ROPED IT. THAT CONTRADICTS THE ENTIRE DEFINTION OF FREEING A ROUTE. COME ONE!!!, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT STYLE, JUST TRUTH
God, you are a moron.
Curt
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rokshoxbkr19
Feb 5, 2004, 12:13 AM
Post #31 of 150
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Why isn't it freeing? Because your life ins't at risk, have you ever freed or lead a route???
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thrasher
Feb 5, 2004, 12:16 AM
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In reply to: DUDE, YOU HAVE NOT FREE CLIMBED A ROUTE IF YOU TOP ROPED IT. THAT CONTRADICTS THE ENTIRE DEFINTION OF FREEING A ROUTE. COME ONE!!!, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT STYLE, JUST TRUTH
Shut up, you're a moron.
I was beginning to think that there were more stupid people here than I thought but by the time I scrolled half-way down the second page vegastradguy saved the day. Thanks vegas.
What he said is true. How many times have you heard about the Huber's both freeing an entire El Cap route? Oh, okay, someone tell Alex that that one pitch he followed on doesn't count because the rope was above him, he needs to go back and do the whole route again. You people are dumbazzes.
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andy_reagan
Feb 5, 2004, 12:18 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: DUDE, YOU HAVE NOT FREE CLIMBED A ROUTE IF YOU TOP ROPED IT. THAT CONTRADICTS THE ENTIRE DEFINTION OF FREEING A ROUTE. COME ONE!!!, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT STYLE, JUST TRUTH God, you are a moron. Curt
I hope for his sake he was being facetious. :roll:
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goldencrowbar
Feb 5, 2004, 12:20 AM
Post #34 of 150
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So, if I TR a route that doesn't offer any lead protection I'm a bad boy?
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curt
Feb 5, 2004, 12:33 AM
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In reply to: Why isn't it freeing? Because your life ins't at risk
A) Use Free climbing techniques to climb the route.
or
B) Use direct aid techniques to get up the route.
There is no third possibility. You can use free climbing technique on a top rope, when seconding a pitch, or when leading.
In reply to: have you ever freed or lead a route???
Why, yes I have. Several thousand of them in fact--over the last 25 years. Thanks for playing, now run along.
Curt
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vegastradguy
Feb 5, 2004, 12:40 AM
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Thank you, Curt.
Free Climb - vb. to use of only natural rock features to make upward progress on a route. Man made gear may be used only for protection. (antonym: aid climbing) n free climbing
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vincent_lopez
Feb 5, 2004, 12:45 AM
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Looks all all u retards have been trolled....i admire this trolls inginuity: give everyone a chance to spout off about the the virtues of free climbing vs. toproping and what do u get??? 3 pages worth of blowhards trying to impress eachother.
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rokshoxbkr19
Feb 5, 2004, 12:46 AM
Post #38 of 150
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for all you a$$holes out there. It doesn't seem like I am the only one with this view. Read the whole Post and bitch at everyone who made my point. Or for that matter Foff
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curt
Feb 5, 2004, 12:50 AM
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In reply to: for all you a$$holes out there. It doesn't seem like I am the only one with this view. Read the whole Post and b---- at everyone who made my point. Or for that matter Foff
You mean all the other people who also didn't have a clue?
Curt
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smellyhippie
Feb 5, 2004, 12:51 AM
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This is why I like this site so much! Keep going, this is great!
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thrasher
Feb 5, 2004, 1:06 AM
Post #41 of 150
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In reply to: for all you a$$holes out there. It doesn't seem like I am the only one with this view. Read the whole Post and b---- at everyone who made my point. Or for that matter Foff
I am laughing my ass off at your stupidity right now. So if everybody is wrong, that must make them right? Strength in numbers definitely doesn't apply to you...stupidity in numbers is more like it.
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muncher
Feb 5, 2004, 1:12 AM
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OK so I was one of the people that went way off on tangents about how top roping is lame etc. I appologise.
What I should have said is:
If you free it you free it. If you were on top rope then you didn't onsight, flash or redpoint it as those descriptions are used for leading. So, if you did the moves then you did it free.
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jt512
Feb 5, 2004, 1:14 AM
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In reply to: for all you a$$holes out there. It doesn't seem like I am the only one with this view.
Holy shit, Curt! This means that there are lots of ignorant newbies on rockclimbing.com. Damn! Who knew?
-Jay
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curt
Feb 5, 2004, 1:16 AM
Post #44 of 150
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In reply to: OK so I was one of the people that went way off on tangents about how top roping is lame etc. I appologise. What I should have said is: If you free it you free it. If you were on top rope then you didn't onsight, flash or redpoint it as those descriptions are used for leading. So, if you did the moves then you did it free.
Right! You can free climb a route, without necessarily leading it free. I think that is where some people got confused.
Curt
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muncher
Feb 5, 2004, 1:21 AM
Post #45 of 150
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Thanks mate.
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sharpender
Feb 5, 2004, 1:26 AM
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OK if the posers, er was that posters here that say seconding a pitch is not free climbing are right, does that mean that if you jumar a pitch on El Cap you are not really aid climbing? Boy does this get confusing. Why does it make me think of Bill Clinton? "I, uhh, ummm, I did, did not have sexual relations with that woman."
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mrme
Feb 5, 2004, 1:26 AM
Post #47 of 150
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Free Climb - vb. to use of only natural rock features to make upward progress on a route. Man made gear may be used only for protection. (antonym: aid climbing) n free climbing
Free Solo - vb. to free climb without any manmade protection at all.
that being said...it is freeing a route, but just not in the purest form of freeing a route.
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curt
Feb 5, 2004, 1:52 AM
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In reply to: OK if the posers, er was that posters here that say seconding a pitch is not free climbing are right, does that mean that if you jumar a pitch on El Cap you are not really aid climbing? Boy does this get confusing. Why does it make me think of Bill Clinton? "I, uhh, ummm, I did, did not have sexual relations with that woman."
That would depend on what the definition of the word "is" is. Hahahahaha.
Curt
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sharpender
Feb 5, 2004, 2:00 AM
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Or in this case what the definition of clean is. As in "I climbed that route clean" or "I cleaned that route"... Oops ya can't clean a top rope route. Wait. I see the light now. A clean top rope is not a free route because.... because a top rope rope is not a route, it's just a climb as in sport. Phew, glad that's settled.
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climbingaz
Feb 5, 2004, 2:01 AM
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I guess it is just terminology. If you climb a TR route without falling or weighting the rope, you've done the climb "clean". I agree with everyone else that "freeing" a route is reserved for leading.
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