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rockjock04
Mar 24, 2002, 2:05 AM
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I vaguely remember hearing something about how it is not good to have 2 wire gate biners at the end of quickdraws. Is this true and why? and how big a problem is it? I am considering buying some of those rock empire quickdraws for 8 bucks, and the cheap ones are both wire gates. Thanks for the info.
(ohh, and I started to put this post in the beginners, then I was like, "Wait, this has to do with gear, and its a question" so I decided to put it in gear heads.)
Are you guys proud of me ?
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flagstaff_climber
Mar 24, 2002, 3:07 AM
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I had a guy at a sporting goods store tell me once that wire gates on the rope end of a draw was a semi-bad idea in the event of a very long fall the biner could orient itself perpendicular to the fall direction thus having the rope across the wire with the direction of force being straight down. He claimed that this could sever the rope because of the relatively narrow surface area of the wire in contact with the rope. Think very dull knife.
I am somewhat dubious about this for several reasons. But that is what he said.
Rick
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miagi
Mar 24, 2002, 3:21 AM
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Hey rockjock, i just bought those same biners your talking about. I have a small review and pics of them on my website. They are awesome...i suggest you buy them. http://cocolopez.8m.com/html/qd.html. As for them being unsafe, i "think" thats not true. Here are my statements:
1. Wire gates are just as strong as the tradition gates of biners. Look at the specs of the biners, they are the same or better. EX: Cross loading, minor axis, ect.
2. As for flagstaff's comment on it cutting the rope if it went horizontal...This could happen but very unlikely. I would suppose that it would not be balanced under load and the rope would slide to one of the major axis's.
3. Even if you have tradition gate or wire gate, a large fall like flagstaff was saying, directly on the gate is still unsafe for both gates. They were not ment to be loaded on the minor axis's anyways.
4. I think there are rubber bands of some sort to keep that loading of the minor axis from happening. They prevent the sling from moving up on the biner.
5. Wire gates are also somewhat safer because of their weight. They weight less which prevents (to a degree) gate flutter and it wont open up as easy if it hits a rock.
6. Another note on the loading of the wire gate on a fall, i think it would heat the wire because of the friction and make it easier to bend. So im not so sure about this one.
I think thats about it....these draws are UIAA and CE certified so they are proven to hold falls and such. You should be in safe hands. Ive been using them and have had no problems
[ This Message was edited by: miagi on 2002-03-23 19:28 ]
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jt512
Mar 24, 2002, 3:36 AM
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Registered: Apr 12, 2001
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Quote:I vaguely remember hearing something about how it is not good to have 2 wire gate biners at the end of quickdraws. Is this true and why?
Two reasons, both sort of minor:
1. There is a small chance that the wire gate on the bolt end of the draw can get caught on the bolt head and unclip.
2. You should never clip your rope into a biner that you use to clip hangers because the hangers eventually cause nicks in the biners that will tear up your rope. If you have identical biners on both ends of your draws, it's hard to tell which one is your dedicated hanger end and which one is your dedicated rope end.
Quote:I am considering buying some of those rock empire quickdraws for 8 bucks, and the cheap ones are both wire gates.
The problem with the Rock Empire biners is the same problem with every cheapo biner. Their open-gate strength is inadequate.
Quote:(ohh, and I started to put this post in the beginners, then I was like, "Wait, this has to do with gear, and its a question" so I decided to put it in gear heads.) Are you guys proud of me ?
Not particularly. Next time search the forums before posting a question. All the issues discussed here have been covered multiple times, some in the last few days. You should still do that search, because other posts have discussed these things in more detail.
Be safe, not cheap.
-Jay
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miagi
Mar 24, 2002, 4:41 AM
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Just because something is cheap, doesnt mean its of bad quality JT. I guess you saying that the rockempire cams for 30$ are bad too? So far ive heard alot of good news about them except some miniscule problem with the larger cams...its not even a problem, just an inconvience. I forget what it was though. Its just because its a generic brand name. Alot of what you buy in today's society is based on brand name. Even in climbing you will see two biners, practically or the exact same in specs but one is more expensive than the other usually because of brand name. (or bad sales management and so forth)
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