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Is this rope safe for TRing?
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munckee


Feb 11, 2004, 8:38 AM
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Is this rope safe for TRing?
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I have an older rope ~6to7 years old that is in otherwise perfect shape. It's always been stored cool and dry and shows almost no wear. I'm a bit wary about TRing on it simply due to the age, but others have mentioned that it should be ok.

What's the consensus?


rwaltermyer


Feb 11, 2004, 8:52 AM
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well, i wouldnt turn to the internet for advice to begin with.


zeus


Feb 11, 2004, 9:03 AM
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i would change it. safer is better.

see also this link:
http://www.mammut.ch/mammut/uploadedFiles/seilfibel_030617-E-PDF(2).pdf

this is booklet of mammut discussing all questions concerning ropes!!! very interesting. have a look at page 26 for your question.

have fun and climb safe!


leinosaur


Feb 11, 2004, 9:04 AM
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If you know the manufacturer, contact them; they're experts & can probably give details. My bro has a 10-year-old rope that's been well-stored, and I've been repeatedly advised against relying on it. Haven't done so, either.

good luck :wink:

leinosaur


munckee


Feb 11, 2004, 9:47 AM
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well, i wouldnt turn to the internet for advice to begin with.

Yeah, why would I want to ask a bunch of experienced climbers about a climbing question? :roll:

Thanks for the advice from those who offered it. I didn't feel good about using it, and I still don't. I guess it's going to the retirement home.


sspssp


Feb 11, 2004, 10:29 AM
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If the sheath is in good shape and you are only TRing with it, I personally would be comfortable with it.

Ropes don't just "break." For modern ropes, there are two concerns. "Cutting" the rope over a sharp edge and loss of elasticity. The loss of elasticity is not going to be a concern for TRing (it will still be stretchier than a static line). Cutting isn't an issue if you are careful of sharp edges (which you should be anyway), and the sheath isn't damaged.

If the sheath is damaged then I would chuck the rope.


tedc


Feb 11, 2004, 10:39 AM
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I wouldn't have any problem with it. In fact I'd be stoked to have such a nice rope to TR on. I usually use my old lead ropes (3-4 years old and quite worn) to TR with.


jt512


Feb 11, 2004, 11:25 AM
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In reply to:
I have an older rope ~6to7 years old that is in otherwise perfect shape. It's always been stored cool and dry and shows almost no wear. I'm a bit wary about TRing on it simply due to the age, but others have mentioned that it should be ok.

What's the consensus?

It should be fine for TRing. Leading is questionable, due to possible loss of elasticity with time. We've debated before whether this occurs or not, with no definitive conclusion reached, IMO. So, better safe than sorry. TR only, would be my recommendation.

-Jay


lstockett


Feb 11, 2004, 11:53 AM
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Contact the manufacturer if you can, but they'll probably tell you to replace it. They'll probably be right. It's your life. Make it into a rug and be happy.

I wouldn't even THINK of leading on it.


scubasnyder


Feb 11, 2004, 12:08 PM
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Hmm do you know the history of the rope?? If you dont i would retire it, if you do and theres no falls or anything i would call the company that makes the rope and ask them. Also it depends on what type of top ropes you are going to set up, If you were to do overhangs where you may fall a few feet you might want to buy a new rope for that. For instant there is an overhang that i have TR'ed and if you fall off the climb you drop about 5 to 10 feet because the overhang is about 30 feet going out. If you dont understand what im saying just pm me. Its hard to get out what your trying to say sometimes today is one of those days.


diesel___smoke


Feb 11, 2004, 12:11 PM
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How much sunlight has it been exposed to?


jt512


Feb 11, 2004, 12:16 PM
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Why do I bother.

-Jay


diesel___smoke


Feb 11, 2004, 12:25 PM
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While I respect your opinion, Jay, there are other perspectives and opinions about this that do differ from your's, and you wouldn't want to exclude them would you?


jt512


Feb 11, 2004, 12:29 PM
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In reply to:
While I respect your opinion, Jay, there are other perspectives and opinions about this that do differ from your's, and you wouldn't want to exclude them would you?

There are educated opinions, there are uneducated opinions, and there are opinions of people who didn't read or comprehend what was stated in the original post.

-Jay


diesel___smoke


Feb 11, 2004, 12:36 PM
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I don't know if you are refering to my post or not with your comment, in the case that you are, I'll bring it to your attention that there is no mention of sunlight exposure. He describes the place said rope in question being stored as cool and dry. I can think of many places that are cool and dry that see UV rays throughout the day, which would be my concern.


sharpender


Feb 11, 2004, 12:43 PM
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I have a rope twice the age of yours and I'll TR on it any day of the week. It is in perfect condition, and never stored in the sunlight. Ocassionally if the route is easy enough, 5.4 to 5.7 crack or slab route, I will lead with the rope to set up TR for my climbing party. I would not get on a multi pitch or stiff climb with this rope. Modern ropes are incredibly strong and resilient.


sspssp


Feb 11, 2004, 1:12 PM
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It is good to be conservative, but I am a bit with JT on this one.

Go some place where the "dirt baggers" hang out (Indian Creek for instance). I have seen guys take repeated lead falls on old tattered ropes, with damaged sheaths and lots of "flat" spots. No, I don't recommend it. But it sure made me feel a lot more comfortable TRing with old ropes.

Old ropes don't just "break." For instance, of all the accidents listed in Accident in North America Moutaineering for 2003, there was only one rope failure and it was cut over a sharp edge. If ropes routinely "broke" then some of the above mentioned dirt baggers would show up in the accident statistics.

You can ask the manufacturer, but they are paranoid about liability (rightly so) and don't really object to you spending more money on more gear.

The typical response is "you've taken the rope out of the store, dude, you better retire it."


jt512


Feb 11, 2004, 1:13 PM
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I can think of many places that are cool and dry that see UV rays throughout the day...

Such as?

-Jay


Partner coldclimb


Feb 11, 2004, 1:26 PM
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I'm with Jay. A rope is gonna have to be incredibly beat up to be insufficient for toproping. I have never heard of a toprope breaking, and I think it would be fairly safe to assume that it's never happened. The force on TR is so insignificant when compared to what the rope was built to take, that five or six years isn't gonna weaken it beyond usefulness.

If you'd like, send it to me. I'll be glad to TR with it. :)


diesel___smoke


Feb 11, 2004, 1:36 PM
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I can think of many places that are cool and dry that see UV rays throughout the day...

Such as?

-Jay

For instance, many of the windows in my apartment allow UV-rays entrance into an environment which remains cool and dry, but sees many hours per day of exposure to UV-rays. Another less likely scenario would be an arctic or alpine environment, where it never rains nor thaws but receives huge amounts of UV rays in an environment that is both cool and dry. The reflection of UV-rays off the snow can magnify their power also. Need I enumerate more?


munckee


Feb 11, 2004, 1:46 PM
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Thanks for the input guys. The rope has seen no sunlight while in storage; it's in a large rubbermaid box in a dark closet. It has been well taken care of and shows no sheath damage or flat spots. Still feels nice and supple as well. No major falls.

On the flip side of all that, i just looked at the mammut pdf posted by someone and it claims that a rope with occasional (monthly) use should be replaced after five years. This rope has seen (averaged out) about that much. So again, while the rope looks and feels ok, it makes me wonder.

It sounds like there are a few mixed opinions here. Keep 'em coming!


superdiamonddave


Feb 11, 2004, 1:56 PM
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I have an "old" maxim 11mm dynamic that I retired from leading, but I use it from time to time to top-rope. I also leave it as a fixed rope two weekends a year at Quartz Mtn to facilitate rappelling back down for the masses. The rope will be 10 years old this summer...Happy Birthday!

There is nothing wrong with the rope other than age. I would love to see someone try to break it. Tug-of-War anyone?


dynoguy


Feb 11, 2004, 2:03 PM
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make a rug!


jt512


Feb 11, 2004, 2:32 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
I can think of many places that are cool and dry that see UV rays throughout the day...

Such as?

-Jay

For instance, many of the windows in my apartment allow UV-rays entrance into an environment which remains cool and dry, but sees many hours per day of exposure to UV-rays. Another less likely scenario would be an arctic or alpine environment, where it never rains nor thaws but receives huge amounts of UV rays in an environment that is both cool and dry. The reflection of UV-rays off the snow can magnify their power also. Need I enumerate more?

If your second-most-likely scenario is that he might have stored his rope out of doors above the Arctic Circle, then, no, I don't think you need to enumerate more.

-Jay


jt512


Feb 11, 2004, 2:44 PM
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Jay, you really touched a nerve on that diesel guy.

And I didn't even have to mention the UIAA's findings that UV radiation doesn't damage nylon ropes.

-Jay

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