|
|
|
|
miagi
Mar 28, 2002, 1:09 AM
Post #1 of 24
(5800 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 1, 2002
Posts: 1087
|
My girlfriend lost her harness...its somewhere, but we cant find it at all. We had a trip planned for tomorrow too Anyways i had about 50 feet of 1 inch webbing and was thinking maybe i could make a Belayer Only Harness . This would not be used for the actual ascent. The crags we are going to climb top 60 feet, and are sport routes. The largest fall i would be taking a little under 20 feet since the bolts there are under 10 feet apart. I made the webbing harness already and it constructed this way:
I have my leg loops doubled up with webbing. I made the leg loops with the typical cross pattern that you use to make a harness out of webbing. I also doubled up the waist belt with webbing. All the webbing is secured with waterknots. The leg loops and belt are connected with a locking biner.
My question is this: Will this be a safe substitute for a harness if it is ONLY USED FOR THE BELAYER?
[ This Message was edited by: miagi on 2002-03-27 17:10 ]
[ This Message was edited by: miagi on 2002-03-27 17:11 ]
|
|
|
|
|
drysdan
Mar 28, 2002, 1:43 AM
Post #2 of 24
(5800 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 8, 2002
Posts: 100
|
Ever heard of a Swiss Seat? It's a self-made harness device that's long been used in rappelling and whatever. My Retired Army Ranger dad swears by it... Anyway, it's worth a shot. If you don't feel that it's safe after trying it a bit, don't use it...
http://users.viawest.net/dnet/~dscabra/swiss.htm
Have fun and stay safe!!
-T
|
|
|
|
|
daggerx
Mar 28, 2002, 1:56 AM
Post #3 of 24
(5800 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 16, 2001
Posts: 761
|
The only problem with a swiss seat is, if you plan on belaying for her it crush's you goodies.
|
|
|
|
|
drysdan
Mar 28, 2002, 2:00 AM
Post #4 of 24
(5800 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 8, 2002
Posts: 100
|
not a bad point, but hey, a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do! I'm sure it can be managed...
-T
|
|
|
|
|
miagi
Mar 28, 2002, 2:18 AM
Post #5 of 24
(5800 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 1, 2002
Posts: 1087
|
Yeah i know. I made my leg loops tight so i can place them in position (a strap on each side of my buddy) and they usually hold good position there and dont run into the middle. Back to my main question. Is this webbing harness safe for belay on sport? The tensile strength of the webbing is 4,000 lbs or 18 kn. Im not sure how much the water knot reduces this. Anyone know if this is safe?
|
|
|
|
|
jmlangford
Mar 28, 2002, 2:34 AM
Post #6 of 24
(5800 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 2, 2001
Posts: 1569
|
Several years ago we used to climb with what we called a 'diaper seat'. We would take some webbing and tie it into a loop with a water knot. Put the knot in the small of your back and let the webbing hang down. Pull 3 loops through-leaving the knot in the small of your back-one loop between the legs and one around each hip. These three loops would would be connected in front with a biner. Used it all the time for rapping and belaying and never had any problems. couldn't swear to its safety though.
|
|
|
|
|
daggerx
Mar 28, 2002, 2:42 AM
Post #7 of 24
(5800 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 16, 2001
Posts: 761
|
I mad one for my buddy, using webbing last year that he used to climb and belay with, and it worked fine, his weight was about 230lbs so thats should tell you it should hold. Just be sure you knots are tight and be sure to triple check.
|
|
|
|
|
miagi
Mar 28, 2002, 3:52 AM
Post #8 of 24
(5800 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 1, 2002
Posts: 1087
|
yeek!?! the diaper harness? That thing goes right across your balls. Unless your female, big "now way" for me. I must correct myself. The style im using is double looped figure eight harness. I found a very interesting site on how to make your own seat harness. Somewhat confusing at first but it makes a grade "A" harness.
http://www.altrec.com/published/climb/skills/makingyourownharness/
|
|
|
|
|
jmlangford
Mar 28, 2002, 4:33 AM
Post #9 of 24
(5800 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 2, 2001
Posts: 1569
|
Yeh Miagi...people tell me I have an exceptionally high voice for a male...maybe you just discovered the reason...
|
|
|
|
|
miagi
Mar 28, 2002, 4:35 AM
Post #10 of 24
(5800 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 1, 2002
Posts: 1087
|
God, can you imagine taking a fall with a 1 inch layer of webbing pressed up against Mr. Wee Wee ? OWWWWWEEEEE
|
|
|
|
|
apollodorus
Mar 28, 2002, 4:39 AM
Post #11 of 24
(5800 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 18, 2002
Posts: 2157
|
DON'T CLIMB WITH A SWISS SEAT OR DIAPER SLING! It's too hard to control the leg loops. Also, in a head-first fall, you can come right out of the silly thing. The Swiss seat and diaper (same?) are for rapping only. You need a waist loop (women: your wider hips are God's way of keeping you in your harness).
Go way trad, and wrap the webbing around the waist into a Swami Belt. Wrap, wrap, wrap (well, maybe not fifty feet's worth...) and tie it with a water knot/ring bend with three inch tails. This was de riguer in the Valley for years. Chuck Pratt probably wore this when he led the Twilight Zone, with no pro.
I took a fairly small (15'-20') fall on a Swami, and it was OK (see below....)
Especially for seconding, the Swami is way cool. But, a leader fall on this ultra-trad rig requires a Karate chop-type body OOMPH of all the muscles between your hips and your tits right as you go tight (breathe in right before you peel, then exhale all the way down, compressing all of your goodies).
For rapping, use the Swiss/diaper made from a double-length sling with the Swami. The Swami is what you are clipped into for safety. You clip the Swiss diaper for comfort. But, hey, use 2" webbing for the diaper. Why suffer?
BTW: My first harness was tied from a single piece of 2" webbing as two leg loops and a double around the waist. A piece of 1" web tripled at the Lower Shakra tied it all together. Duct tape on the knots was a ghettoesque way to mind-pump me for the hard climbs. I later added 3mm cord to keep the back of the leg loops from dropping. Got me up some hard-A stuff, including the Arrow Direct midi-wall. Yee-Haw! And I'm still here.
[ This Message was edited by: apollodorus on 2002-03-27 20:44 ]
|
|
|
|
|
tygereye
Mar 28, 2002, 12:20 PM
Post #12 of 24
(5800 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 22, 2002
Posts: 80
|
Yeah, Miagi, for belaying I reckon it would be safe. Not particularly comfortable (or even painless), but, yes, safe enough for belaying
|
|
|
|
|
miagi
Mar 28, 2002, 4:55 PM
Post #13 of 24
(5800 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 1, 2002
Posts: 1087
|
yup, your right apollo. Ive seen the swami belt used and it looks safe. I know you werent refering to me in your post but he is right people. Dont use the webbing harness for climbing. Actually, there is one webbing harness that can be used. Look up in this post and i have a reply with a link. Click on the link and then scroll all the way down to the last harness setup
|
|
|
|
|
verticallaw
Mar 28, 2002, 8:27 PM
Post #14 of 24
(5800 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 21, 2002
Posts: 552
|
I checked out that site and the last harness does work. I used it myself in a pinch but I also made one for my son the same style only smaller anyone know of make your own chest harness pictures though????
Mike
|
|
|
|
|
jmlangford
Mar 28, 2002, 8:35 PM
Post #15 of 24
(5800 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 2, 2001
Posts: 1569
|
If you'll notice...in my post I said we used the diaper seat for "rappelling and belaying". Never condoned it for actual climbing.
|
|
|
|
|
jmlangford
Apr 15, 2002, 2:04 AM
Post #16 of 24
(5800 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 2, 2001
Posts: 1569
|
Do NOT use the above mentioned "Swami" for rappelling-especially do NOT back up a "Swami" with a prusik knot and rappel that way. Will be submitting an article shortly about a fatality caused by someone rapping with this combination.
|
|
|
|
|
redzit
Apr 15, 2002, 2:41 PM
Post #17 of 24
(5800 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 6, 2002
Posts: 195
|
hey man, the problem is that you might tri load the biner. becarful of that, the cross srength of the biner can be prity low.
|
|
|
|
|
jmlangford
Apr 16, 2002, 6:22 AM
Post #18 of 24
(5800 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 2, 2001
Posts: 1569
|
Here is the article on the fatality by someone using a 'swami' to rappel.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/articles/index.php?ID=86
|
|
|
|
|
orngave
Apr 16, 2002, 3:56 PM
Post #19 of 24
(5800 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 26, 2002
Posts: 220
|
I used the same thing jm does. The loop technique worked for an entire semester of sporting with my friends.
E.B.
|
|
|
|
|
treyr
Apr 16, 2002, 3:57 PM
Post #20 of 24
(5800 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 23, 2001
Posts: 549
|
If you are belaying from the ground gett some webbing and anchor on a tree!
Trob
|
|
|
|
|
mtngypsy
Apr 16, 2002, 5:15 PM
Post #21 of 24
(5800 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 28, 2002
Posts: 73
|
The book Mountaineering, Freedom of the Hills has a great example of a homemade sit harness that will work for just about anything if constructed properly. All you need is 22 feet of 1" tubular.
Obviously the best thing to do would be just buck up and buy another harness, but if thats not possible this rig will work, though it will not be as comfortable as a new Metolious. I have used it and found you really have to pay attention to how you tie the final knot at the waist. I once watched someone lead a thin fingers 5.11C crack with one.
If done write the webbing and knots are easily strong enough to hold a leader fall, especially if your belayer is not anchored to the ground. Her being pulled will add dynamics to the system decreasing the impact force on all its components.
[ This Message was edited by: mtngypsy on 2002-04-16 10:25 ]
|
|
|
|
|
radistrad
Apr 16, 2002, 5:33 PM
Post #22 of 24
(5800 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 25, 2002
Posts: 800
|
another option is to belay from an anchor on the ground. Set some pro, tie off a tree etc. and clip you bely device to the sling. You can safley belay from an anchor, however its a bit strange at first, make sure your anchor is BOMB PROOF!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
mtngypsy
Apr 16, 2002, 5:45 PM
Post #23 of 24
(5800 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 28, 2002
Posts: 73
|
This will work fine but it can make for a very stiff catch in a leader fall, especially if there is not a lot of rope out, or there the dynamic properties of the rope are reduced by wondering protection.
I would definatly not consider this for trad climbing.
|
|
|
|
|
mtngypsy
Apr 16, 2002, 5:51 PM
Post #24 of 24
(5800 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 28, 2002
Posts: 73
|
The above will work fine but it can make for a very stiff catch in a leader fall, especially if there is not a lot of rope out, or there the dynamic properties of the rope are reduced by wondering protection.
I would definatly not consider this for trad climbing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
