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drkodos
Mar 12, 2004, 4:14 PM
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In english, the word "sport" needs to be modified by other words to form tighter definitions.
Thus, phrases such as "competitive sport" or "non-competitive sports", or "two-person, head to head sport" need to be employed to distinguish finer gradations between what people refer to as "games" vs "sports".
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curt
Mar 12, 2004, 4:17 PM
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In reply to: They are synonymous. Correct. I agree though, that the words have taken on bastardized and differnet meanings, but it is important to not have "personal" definitions of words. If we cannot come to agreement to what single words mean, that it is impossible to understand more complex thoughts when words are strung together in sentences.
So, if they are synonomous, and I choose to call some of the mentioned activities by one word--and some by the other word, how am I wrong?
Curt
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escale
Mar 12, 2004, 4:24 PM
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Climbing is definitely a sport. Any type of physical activity that raised your BP must be called a sport of some kind. We all approach our “sports” differently. Some people will be recreational sport types. They will do their cycling through the park and are satisfied with it. Other will try to achieve specific “time” or endurance goals. Others train and go the to Olympics. You will see in all physical sports that we set a number, whether it is against time, difficulty, endurance, pure power. And our competitors will always be against ourselves, i.e. who we were yesterday. Sure it is fun to score better than the other team or our other competitor but aren’t we doing it to better ourselves in the long run.
I suppose you could draw the line between recreational enthusiasts, locally competitive amateurs and professional players. A professional player will be paid or compensated in some way for their physical talents, and up until recently the Olympics were amateur sportsmen. Now that we have sent in our “dream team” to play basketball, we can now see the difference between amateur and professional players. I have nothing against the college players, because they would kick my a$$ as well.
I am constantly trying to improve my “game” in anything I do and that will be my lifelong approach to life. I compare climbing to gymnastics, we need to move very powerfully yet gracefully over the rock to overcome obstacles that keep us from the top. Balance and power and mental focus and the ability to manage pain and fatigue will win over a very long haul.
So, I guess all climbers could be classed recreational, competitive or professional, but we all are playing this climbing sport at different levels.
The only people I feel sorry for are all those couch potatoes who spend weekend yelling at their TV saying they could do better than Mr. XYZ who just tanked the football into the out of bounds or fumbled at a critical point. But then again at least they are getting some exercise when they throw the bag of potato chips at the screen and start ranting, waving, shouting and speed dialing their friends to see if they saw that play.
---Escale
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drkodos
Mar 12, 2004, 4:33 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: They are synonymous. Correct. I agree though, that the words have taken on bastardized and differnet meanings, but it is important to not have "personal" definitions of words. If we cannot come to agreement to what single words mean, that it is impossible to understand more complex thoughts when words are strung together in sentences. So, if they are synonomous, and I choose to call some of the mentioned activities by one word--and some by the other word, how am I wrong? Curt
Good question. Here is the answer: They are synonomous, not the same word. They are not 100 percent interchangable.
Not all sports are games. Not all games are sport. Some games are not played for recreation, such as "mind games", or "Patriot Games".
English language has the greatest capacity of any world language to have narrowly construed and exacting definitions by using modifiying words in conjuctions with others. Most people have very poor language skills in this regard and oversimplify, or completely mis-use words. That does not make it correct.
This is itself an oversimplified and lousy post because I am running out the door to go climbing.
ciao!
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diesel___smoke
Mar 12, 2004, 4:52 PM
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IMO, for something qualify, or to differentiate something as a 'sport', I feel consequences must be present for someone's lapse of judgment or skill, and there must also be a code of ethics to abide by, both within the sport and the person. This is why I don't qualify 'sport climbing' and indoor climbing as sports, but mere hobbies or games.
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robmcc
Mar 12, 2004, 4:52 PM
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In reply to: They are synonymous. Correct.
Bzzzt. Monopoly is _not_ a sport. :)
In reply to: I agree though, that the words have taken on bastardized and differnet meanings, but it is important to not have "personal" definitions of words.
Oh, I disagree completely. As my linguistics prof was fond of saying, the dictionary is descriptive. It doesn't tell you how words MUST be used, it tells you how they ARE used, and that changes. If you start calling rock climbing "fnorbing" and it catches on, it'll eventually find its way into the pages of Websters.
That said, games and sports _are_ different things. IMHO, games necessarily involve scoring, ranking, or some notion of a winner or loser. I think the word "sport" has just been bastardized by people who'd rather say they "play sports" than "play games". You might be a great big hulking football player, but it's still just a game.
And don't get me started on hockey.
Rob
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abalch
Mar 12, 2004, 4:57 PM
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It's an addiction that will take over your life :twisted:
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crazygirl
Mar 12, 2004, 4:57 PM
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but Robmcc,
tell us what you think about hockey
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dirtineye
Mar 12, 2004, 5:11 PM
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OK Curt, I'm not saying you are wrong, or even questioning your definition of sport.
But, I will point out that the way some people climb, it is not a sport but a deadly game of chance. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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curt
Mar 12, 2004, 5:24 PM
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In reply to: OK Curt, I'm not saying you are wrong, or even questioning your definition of sport. But, I will point out that the way some people climb, it is not a sport but a deadly game of chance. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hey, by the way, I am not saying that I am right either. This is merely a distinction that I apply to differentiate what I consider a sport from something I feel is just a game. To me games can be either physical or mental or both, but a sport must have an athletic component. So maybe I would consider all sports to be games--but not all games to be sports?
Curt
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sarcat
Mar 12, 2004, 5:42 PM
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Webster's definition:
Main Entry: 1sport
Pronunciation: 'spOrt, 'sport
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, to divert, disport, short for disporten
intransitive senses
1 a : to amuse oneself : FROLIC b : to engage in a sport
2 a : to mock or ridicule something b : to speak or act in jest : TRIFLE
3 [2sport] : to deviate or vary abruptly from type (as by bud variation) : MUTATE
transitive senses
1 : to display or wear usually ostentatiously : BOAST
2 [2sport] : to put forth as a sport or bud variation
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dirtineye
Mar 12, 2004, 5:48 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: OK Curt, I'm not saying you are wrong, or even questioning your definition of sport. But, I will point out that the way some people climb, it is not a sport but a deadly game of chance. :lol: :lol: :lol: Hey, by the way, I am not saying that I am right either. This is merely a distinction that I apply to differentiate what I consider a sport from something I feel is just a game. To me games can be either physical or mental or both, but a sport must have an athletic component. So maybe I would consider all sports to be games--but not all games to be sports? Curt
EEK, LOGIC!!!!
Well, if in your games of chess you often get mad and physically beat the crap out of your opponent, is chess a sport then?
But more seriously, isn't the skill of throwing a dart going to quailfy as athletic? It's a lot like throwing a baseball, although i have heard the argument that pitchers are not athelets or even ball players LOL.
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litleclimberchick
Mar 12, 2004, 6:19 PM
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In reply to: To me games can be either physical or mental or both, but a sport must have an athletic component. So maybe I would consider all sports to be games--but not all games to be sports?
i completely agree, i have always thought of sports as having an athletic component.
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litleclimberchick
Mar 12, 2004, 6:26 PM
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so, yes...i believe that climbing is a sport...even if we climb merely for the sake of climbing we are still in competition with ourselves and there is a physical aspect to it.
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ford
Mar 12, 2004, 7:06 PM
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the surly old man in me says... Screw trying to define it, let's just climb. Also, for the record, it's religion. Anyone who has been baptized with a lead fall knows what I'm talkin' about. :shock:
The half-wit beatnik pseudo intellectual in me says... It is what it is, and could never be more than that, or less. :?
---Rev. Ford---
p.s. What 'sport' definition includes full contact croquet?
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angry
Mar 12, 2004, 7:09 PM
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Just mulling over some definitions. I like a lot of the answers. To me athletic endeavors are not sport without the competetive aspect. The bicycle example gets used a lot. To me it is a sport, I do 40+ races every year and spend the rest of the year training. If I didn't race, it'd be a hobby. There are shades of gray, it is also my hobby and I do it for enjoyment, but competition makes it different for me.
The truth is that it really doesn't matter as long as we enjoy it.
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alwaysforward
Mar 12, 2004, 7:33 PM
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Connotation is important though.
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boulderqt
Mar 12, 2004, 7:36 PM
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a sport doesn't have to be a competition would you considering running a sport even if you didn't compete? climbing is a sport in my opinion :evil: but think whatever you want. :roll:
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pyrodude
Mar 12, 2004, 7:37 PM
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Climbing as a sport. If you say it must be something that requires practice- climbing, something that requires skill- climbing, something that requires guts- climbing. The one thing that might change it from a sport to a nother thing is danger. IT makes it become a way of life. Gyms make it a sport, all others are determined later.
And Curt is right- chess is NOT a sport!
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hugepedro
Mar 12, 2004, 7:41 PM
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Well, if figure skating is a sport . . .
No, I tend to agree with this:
In reply to: To me athletic endeavors are not sport without the competetive aspect.
I would add that the competition needs to be structured in some fashion. Rules and measures.
Were Hillary and Norgay participating in a sport when they climbed Everest? I don't think so. Even though they were "competing" to be the first.
Climbing to me is not at all about competition, so I don't see it as a sport. Although, I recognize that others do.
Having started my climbing career as a mountaineer on Cascade glaciers, in places where teamwork is of the utmost importance; where things could go seriously wrong if competitive forces were allowed to play a prominent role; for me, climbing and competition are not compatible.
Turn it into some contrived competition on plastic and you might call it a sport, but I'd say it's not a very good one. I'd rather watch figure skating.
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dynoguy
Mar 12, 2004, 7:53 PM
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In reply to: Dude, people call chess a sport. It's competitive, but not athletic. People call running a sport, even if they don't compete. Climbing is climbing. Beyond that, it's no more or no less than you want it to be.
I have also heard golf refered to as a sport, what a joke.
I believe it all depends on your attitude towards climbing. Some treat it as a sport others don't. I treat as a something I have to do, like eating and sleeping. What can I say I'm an addict.
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climbersoze
Mar 12, 2004, 8:17 PM
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In reply to: Sport is defined as ANYTHING done for recreative purposes. Climbing is a sport. It is not sporting.
you beat me to it.. but I have been slow to post up lately anyway....
Football is a sport, and I used to be a football player... but now I jsut play football.
Same thing goes for climbing... you can rock climb, but not be a climber... it really leans towards the influence that the "sport" has on your life.
I consider myself a climber... hence my lifestyle reflects that.
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sub-zero
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Mar 12, 2004, 8:40 PM
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Climbing is a sport only it is against more than one person you and them. It drives you to compete against yourself and everyone else out there. The dictionary states: An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively. So I believe it is a sport and a great one at that!
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Mar 12, 2004, 9:03 PM
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climbing isn't a sport unless you sport climb...and who can can themselves a climber if they just sport climb...haha, that's funny.
there are many things in life that you could say fall under the category of sport...sex was one of them that came up already
i have sweet, loving and caring sex with girls in relationships that i'm in. but sometimes, just as i feel the need to clip bolts like everyone else, i just want to go sport-fuking.
sport-fuking is easy, just like sport climbing. i go to the bar with a group of likeminded guy friends, and see how many girls we can, well you get the idea. some girls are 5.9 clip-ups, some are slabby with an ugly face, and some of them are beautiful if moderate. i'll warm up with an easy one, and then move onto my proj.
my record is two, but i'm not a very good sport-o
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