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timstich
Mar 20, 2004, 2:08 PM
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Who said it and under what circumstances? A true low in the history of climbing behavior. It must be remembered...by someone.
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justin
Mar 20, 2004, 2:59 PM
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Steve Roper?
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steelmonkey
Mar 20, 2004, 3:20 PM
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tim wrote:
In reply to: Who said it and under what circumstances?
Can't find the right book at the moment to verify, but the location was the Lost Arrow Chimney as I recall, kid fell in, died, route was closed for a number of years, first climbers up there, and the rest is legend...
In reply to: A true low in the history of climbing behavior. It must be remembered...by someone.
Which begs the question...why would you want to dredge it up?
Climbers were an inrreverant bunch, especially about the issue of death. Some were a little more oddball about it than others. Probably helped them cope with losing friends and partners over the years. It didn't used to be the nice safe "sport" it is today (at least for most climbers).
G.
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vegastradguy
Mar 20, 2004, 3:22 PM
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well, i know that it was more of a tension breaker than an actual theft of a dead man's jacket.....both of the climbers in said story were really creeped out by the whole affair. They had passed some bones on the climb and eventually ran across his body on one of the leads. One said it to the other to break the tension. It worked.
ps- It was the Lost Arrow Chimney....
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justin
Mar 20, 2004, 3:25 PM
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Steve Roper and Yvon Chouinard.
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ryanpfleger
Mar 20, 2004, 3:50 PM
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What book is it in? First I've heard about it... not that thats surprising.
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foursquarewarmup
Mar 20, 2004, 3:57 PM
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They have the story in the new Black Diamond catalogue.
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s_darris
Mar 20, 2004, 5:23 PM
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don't hold strong opinions about that which you do not fully understand...i'm sure no disrespect was intended when Roper said that...and in context of the story, seems it was to ease the tension of the moment....humor is a healthy thing .....no?........bein a bit sensitive?....
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drrock
Mar 20, 2004, 5:41 PM
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edit
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diesel___smoke
Mar 20, 2004, 6:04 PM
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It was actually "Goddamn it! His parka doesn't fit me!"
Roper said it to Yvon while climbing the Lost Arrow Chimney. It was said because of an ominous silence between the two after finding the smashed body of a teenager. It was said to break the silence that had been going for an hour or two.
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timstich
Mar 21, 2004, 1:25 AM
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In reply to: tim wrote: In reply to: Who said it and under what circumstances? Can't find the right book at the moment to verify, but the location was the Lost Arrow Chimney as I recall, kid fell in, died, route was closed for a number of years, first climbers up there, and the rest is legend... In reply to: A true low in the history of climbing behavior. It must be remembered...by someone. Which begs the question...why would you want to dredge it up?
Good question, which you answer yourself more or less below.
In reply to: Climbers were an inrreverant bunch, especially about the issue of death. Some were a little more oddball about it than others. Probably helped them cope with losing friends and partners over the years. It didn't used to be the nice safe "sport" it is today (at least for most climbers). G.
I would argue that climbers still are an irreverant and somewhat unpleasant bunch...to the rest of the world. And though some climbing has gotten safer, there are still avenues left open that are not and will never be sanitized, thank God.
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timstich
Mar 21, 2004, 1:29 AM
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In reply to: well, i know that it was more of a tension breaker than an actual theft of a dead man's jacket.....both of the climbers in said story were really creeped out by the whole affair. They had passed some bones on the climb and eventually ran across his body on one of the leads. One said it to the other to break the tension. It worked. ps- It was the Lost Arrow Chimney....
Ah. The quote taken out of context sounds rather callous. It is instead a bit of dark humor. None the less, it is a side of climbing that certain sensitive minds on this site need to examine fully.
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curt
Mar 21, 2004, 3:03 AM
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It is called "gallow's humor" and is not unique to climbing.
Curt
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nashequilibrium
Mar 23, 2004, 12:52 PM
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The quote is in:
Jones, Chris, "Climbing in North America" The Mountaineers, reissue edition, 1997.
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junnos
Mar 23, 2004, 1:26 PM
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Yeah, I've met few and far climbers that can take a sick joke. Kinda disapointing.
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jv
Apr 24, 2004, 5:38 PM
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"If the spring of 1960 marked a huge equipment advance, it also became a milestone of another sort. No one had yet died actually climbing in Yosemite Valley. Hikers scrambling on cliffs where they had no business had been killed. A Stanford student named Anne Pottinger had died of exposure after a climb of the Higher Spire in 1955. As related, Don Goodrich had died climbing in the Yosemite highcountry. The Valley, however, had not yet claimed a person using ropes---a remakable record, given twenty-seven years and thousands of climbs.
"The death of Irving Smith, on March 19, began an unfortunate trend: he was the first of fifty-five rockclimbers to die in the Valley during the next thirty years (all but four of these occurred after 1970, the end of the Golden Age). Smith, a blond, crew-cut high school junior from Fresno, had been climbing with enthusiasm for a year and wanted to be the youngest person to stand atop the Lost Arrow Spire. 'How old were you when you did it?' he asked me one night in the coffee shop at Yosemite Lodge, two months before his death. After I replied 'eighteen,' he grinned shyly and confided that he would soon---at age seventeen---be attempting the spire with a group of Fresno climbers. I raved about the route and predicted he'd have no trouble whatsoever.
"Ironically, he never even set foot on the actual spire: he was killed on the 'approach.' A pair of long and frightfully exposed rappels must be made to reach the airy notch separating the Arrow from the main cliff. Smith, first down the second rappel, never got to call 'Off rappel!' No one saw what happened; a brief howl echoing from the depths marked his last moment. He may have rappelled off the end of the rope; perhaps the rope knocked a loose rock down on him. More likely, however, is that he had reached the notch and was making the transition from rappel to the shattered granite gap when he lost his balance or grabbed a loose rock. He plunged into what I regard as one of the most sinister places in the Valley: the Arrow chimney. This slot, prehistorically dark and damp, is a place to avoid. Certainly it is not a good place to die. Smith ricocheted down this dreadful crack for 500 feet, lifeless long before he smashed onto a chockstone ledge.
"The body, first spotted by Smith's friend George Sessions a few hours later, was thought to lie in an 'inaccessible' spot by the rangers; they and the lad's father opted to leave the corpse where it lay. To justify his postition, the father told reporters the standard cliche: 'This is the way Irving would have wanted it.' What else could a grieving dad believe? Warren Harding, uneasy with the decision, immediately volunteered to rappel and recover the remains. The rangers declined his offer and placed the Arrow Chimney off limts to climbers for a year. Chouinard and I were first up the Arrow Chimney after the death, and I was in the lead when I came upon the desiccated remains. To break the tension, I yelled down to Chouinard, 'Goddamn it! His parka doesn't fit me!' The body had quickly decomposed and within a few years would be washed down the chimney by winter storms.
"We immortal ones shrugged off Smith's death. 'The guy couldn't even rappel right, for God's sake,' I remember saying glibly. We thought accidental death could be avoided by sound methods: if you checked knots, checked anchors, checked each other---then all would be well. Only incompetents died. It could never happen to us."
Steve Roper, excerpted from Camp 4--Recollections of a Yosemite Rockclimber, pp. 110-111. The Mountaineers, 1994
The first time I heard this story on a summer night by a fire in Camp 4, we howled with laughter when the story teller got to Roper's famous line. I heard it told and told it myself a hundred more times and it still brings a smile. I think that when you read the story in context, there is nothing ghoulish or inappropriate about it. When I was in my 20's, I was immortal too. Being cavalier about death is easy when you are immortal.
JV
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maculated
Apr 24, 2004, 7:20 PM
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Camp 4 should be in any west coast climber's library. It's a fun read and it contains wonderful history.
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danceonrock
Apr 26, 2004, 1:59 PM
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what are u really loocking for neh?
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