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setting up a hanging belay
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kman


Apr 4, 2002, 2:08 AM
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setting up a hanging belay
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When you get to where you want to set up your hanging belay what method do you use? Do you place the first piece and hang off it to set up the rest, or do you do it all with one hand while hanging on with the other? The latter seems more difficult.


krustyklimber


Apr 4, 2002, 4:16 AM
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I generally put in one piece and clip into it with the rope then I'm protected, still on belay, while I construct the rest of the station.

Jeff


nctxcllimer


Apr 4, 2002, 4:29 AM
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Same thing for me.


kman


Apr 4, 2002, 4:40 AM
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Understood, but when you clip into the one piece do you take onto that piece, and then setup while hanging on the one piece leaving both hands free, or still use one hand to hold onto the rock since it is only one piece that is protecting you? This piece should be bomber since you will be using it as part of your anchor. I guess what I want to know is, is it ok to hang off one[b/] piece while building an anchor?

*Edited for clarity.
*and boldness
[ This Message was edited by: kman on 2002-04-04 04:44 ]

[ This Message was edited by: kman on 2002-04-04 04:45 ]

[ This Message was edited by: kman on 2002-04-04 04:47 ]


kman


Apr 4, 2002, 4:47 AM
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D'oh


krustyklimber


Apr 4, 2002, 5:05 AM
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Yes it is O.K. to "take " on the one piece, if it is good, if it isn't back it up. Then, with your belayer ready, you can free up both hands to build the station (which is much easier and safer with two hands). Manny hanging belays consist of bolts, in that case clip a 'biner to one of the hangers, then clip your personal anchoring device to the 'biner, that way you'll be able to leave without disassembling the anchors or having to leave a designated locker behind. (a designated locker is one that stays in the same place and does the same job all the time)

I hope this helps,
Jeff


kman


Apr 4, 2002, 5:13 AM
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( No bolts )

Thanks dude!


mpepe


Apr 4, 2002, 10:41 PM
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I put in a bomber piece and clip a daisy to it. I have found that keeping one daisy on your harness with a locker on it simplifies setting up an anchor or stopping anywhere on the route. You can clip it in as long or short as you like, which beats yelling "take" a bunch of times as you remove stretch from the rope. It is also pretty handy for looping around a tree as an anchor and it is length adjustable so you can move around without any hassle.


apollodorus


Apr 4, 2002, 11:08 PM
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I've always hung on the first piece at a hanging belay while setting the rest of the anchors. If the first piece isn't bomber enough to hang-dog off of, it's probably no good for a belay anchor.

If it helps you mentally, you could place two pieces clipped together with a sling, and then hang-dog while putting in more, and maybe fiddling with the first ones to make them better.

If your hanging belay is so dicey that you need to equalize the anchors before you can weight them, you're probably at the Sea of Dreams' Amazing Expanding Anchor, which you aided up to anyway.


bradhill


Apr 5, 2002, 10:24 AM
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You build a big, bomber, multi-piece equalized anchor for a belay because:

  • At some point it will be your only attachment to the mountain.
  • It may have to take a factor 2 fall.


    When you're setting a hanging belay, hanging off your first piece is OK because:

  • Hanging on a piece generates less than 3 kN.
  • If it does fail, you have the pitch beneath you sewn up and a lot of rope paid out, so you won't go to the ground, just past your last pro on a low-factor fall.


  • radistrad


    Apr 8, 2002, 3:48 PM
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    Hanging belay?
    What I do is place the best piece I can get and tie a knot in my lead rope and clip in. If its really a sketchy place and I can not tie a knot in my rope I'll ask the belayer to hold me until I can get on an anchor.
    Since I am hanging on a bomber (the best I can get) piece, I may go off belay before I finish my anchor (this allows the second to get ready).
    I will then set up my anchor, and clip into the power point. I will usually leave my rope in the first piece and use three (or more) different pieces to set my anchor with.

    The anchor is your most important part of the entire belay system.... make it good.


    kyhangdog


    Apr 8, 2002, 5:57 PM
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    Exactly the same as radistrad. I tie a clove hitch in the first bomber piece, then complete the anchor using a webolette. However, I do not take myself off belay until I am completely tied into the new anchor.

    [ This Message was edited by: kyhangdog on 2002-04-09 07:28 ]


    addiroids


    Apr 8, 2002, 8:09 PM
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    If it is a hanging belay, I probably aided up to it, so I would just stand on my last piece and build an anchor.

    But in the event that I ever get good enough to free climb routes that have hanging belays, I would place a bomber piece, clip in with a quick draw, stay on belay (even if the belayer ties a mule knot in the rope so he can be hands free), and construct the anchor with both hands. However, it will be quite some time to when I am free climbing that hard (I hope).

    TRADitionally yours,

    Cali Dirtbag


    wallhammer


    Apr 8, 2002, 9:02 PM
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    “Since I am hanging on a bomber (the best I can get) piece, I may go off belay before I finish my anchor”…



    Radistrad has more courage than I. I would never take myself off belay while hanging only on one piece, no matter how bomber. If that bomber piece blows you could end up taking a dirt nap. They teach S.R.E.N.E. for anchors, but we are not talking about an anchor, just what you are hanging on while trying to construct one. I still would feel more comfortable staying on belay giving some redundancy to my position. THIS IS NOT saying that Radistrads method is incorrect, he just has a different comfort level than myself. In other words, I am kind of chicken$hit.


    maculated


    Apr 8, 2002, 9:55 PM
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    If you've got a bomber placement, clip in and hang dog that baby. This dittos others' sentiments. If you don't think you can put bodyweight on your anchor, that's going to be a fun hanging belay.

    This is said from someone who hasn't actually had to do one, though. Not yet, anyway.

    The best part of a climb is getting to an anchor point, clipping in the rope, shouting "take" and thinking, "Ohhhhhhhhhhh yeah."




    krustyklimber


    Apr 9, 2002, 1:11 AM
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    Mac,
    It'll get even better when you get to the end of the rope, build your own anchors, and yell "c'mon up!" knowing you're THE LEADER!

    I can't wait to here about it!

    Jeff


    maculated


    Apr 9, 2002, 6:31 PM
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    Well, we're nearing that point now. Too bad there aren't any multi-pitches around here . . . thanks!


    apollodorus


    Apr 9, 2002, 7:27 PM
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    Maculated, I will make the effort to go scout Rocky Butte, in an effort to refute your claim of no multi-pitch climbs in the area.

    And speaking of which, last weekend, I flew in a small plane over Lopez Lake, and out towards Pozo. And guess what? A GNARLY EXPOSED ROCK RIDGE, suddenly appeared. There is no other ridge outcropping like it in the area, that I've seen. A rather long, straight cliff, maybe one or two miles wide, just pops out of the dirt hillside. It's accessible from a mountain road that is amazing close. From the road, it's basically hidden from view, though. It looks like only a small outcropping is visible from the road, but would indicate where to walk towards. It's hard to judge such things from 4000 feet, but the cliffs looked to be almost vertical, solid, and at least 200 feet high.

    I'm going to scout that one, too. So I can get my name in The Guide 8-)


    blacksamba


    Apr 9, 2002, 7:48 PM
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    Black Diamond doesnt recommend using daisy's in the belay system since they are static pieces and recommends you always tie into your anchor with the rope.

    I know this isnt always possible, like on stretcher pitchers, and usually just daisy to the anchor, still I always get a little creeped knowing I am breaking a BD commandment.

    Ben


    maculated


    Apr 9, 2002, 9:37 PM
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    Okay Apollo, where's Rocky Butte?

    If you want a belayer for your FA of the stuff out in Lopez, I'm your gal. I do seem to remember driving out there once on some dirt roads and seeing some truly awesome rock ridges.


    cdb1386


    Apr 11, 2002, 7:44 AM
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    I don't see what is wrong with using a daisy (static piece) to "hang" off of while setting up your anchor. If the piece happens to blow you will be caught by your "dynamic rope." Perhaps it us just a warning from BD to protect themselves.

    I personally like using daisies for 2 reasons:
    1. No rope is used so the next pitch has the entire length of the rope if needed.

    2. Daisies are easily adjusted to varying lengths and work great if the belay is crowded (i.e. 3 person team) or confined.


    krustyklimber


    Apr 12, 2002, 8:38 PM
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    If you do use a daisy as your main tie in, just remember to back yourself up, with the rope (or a full strength runner), after completing the station.

    Jeff


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