|
|
|
|
jt512
Apr 13, 2004, 2:32 AM
Post #1 of 19
(8313 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
April 4, 2004. Joshua Tree. Left Mel Crack (which is the one on the right, but that's another story) 5.10c. I'm pumped at the crux and barely able to hang on. The gear is at my knees, and it looks like I have to do 2 more moves before I can get to a stance where I can place another piece. My thoughts wander to falling. It occurs to me that I can let go and take a little fall, or carry on and risk a big fall. I remind myself that the gear is good and the fall from higher, clean. I redirect my attention back into making the moves. I think I'm going to fall anyway, but I make the first move, teeter on the brink of falling but hang on, "balance" I say to myself. Another similar despo move gets me to the stance. Result: onsight.
April 10, 2004. Joshua Tree. Tossed Green (5.10a). Near the top of the route I mistakenly attempt to lieback the crack. It ain't workin' and I have to get into the crack. I'm off balance and can't move statically into the crack. I could try deadpointing for the edge of the crack higher up, but I can't see if the edge is positive enough for me to stick the deadpoint. If it turns out to be good enough it should allow me to pull myself into the crack. If it's not good, I'm outa' there. The pro is somewhere below my feet. Making the questionable move or downclimbing are the options. I look down at the pro. It looks a ways down there. I look straight down at the ground, and see that the route is overhanging, and that the fall will be clean. The pro is a good #1 Camalot. I make the deadpoint. Result: 20-foot fall. I think it's my longest fall onto gear (I've fallen 30 feet onto bolts on a couple of occasions).
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
unabonger
Apr 13, 2004, 2:47 PM
Post #2 of 19
(8313 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 8, 2003
Posts: 2689
|
Thanks Jay.
Events and values have conspired so that my own warrior results are in persuits other than climbing so its nice to read of those that are in the game.
UB
|
|
|
|
|
dirtineye
Apr 13, 2004, 4:55 PM
Post #3 of 19
(8313 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2003
Posts: 5590
|
Ride em cowboy!
Deadpointing to something that you don't get is funny ain't it? Almost as funny as making it to the savior hold with your last bit of gas and then melting off.
How did the fall feel? Were you able to relax and concentrate of dealing with the fall?
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Apr 13, 2004, 5:07 PM
Post #4 of 19
(8313 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: How did the fall feel? Were you able to relax and concentrate of dealing with the fall?
I was nervous in anticipation of the fall, since I'd never taken that long a fall on gear. I don't recall any feelings during the fall itself, except amazement at how soft the catch was. My partner, Spike, gave me a textbook-perfect dynamic belay. My heart was beating pretty fast after the fall. Before making the move, I judged that the cam was solid and made the decision to go, but having little experience with long falls onto gear, I still had doubts about the safety of the fall, if that makes any sense.
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
dirtineye
Apr 13, 2004, 5:44 PM
Post #5 of 19
(8313 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2003
Posts: 5590
|
Doubts about the safety of the fall make perfect sense. How many pieces were between you and disaster?
iIn my experience 20 feet is barely long enough to have many thoughts or feelings LOL, but how was your conccentration on the meeting with the wall, or was it a totally free hanging affair? I have found that it is all a matter of DOING when you are in a 20 foot or less fall. Hopefully you have trained yourself well enough to react instinctually and do what must be done.
So how were your feet and legs and hands positioned as you came to a stop?
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Apr 13, 2004, 8:05 PM
Post #6 of 19
(8313 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: Doubts about the safety of the fall make perfect sense. How many pieces were between you and disaster?
Probably 2.
In reply to: In my experience 20 feet is barely long enough to have many thoughts or feelings LOL, but how was your conccentration on the meeting with the wall, or was it a totally free hanging affair? I have found that it is all a matter of DOING when you are in a 20 foot or less fall. Hopefully you have trained yourself well enough to react instinctually and do what must be done.
In reply to: So how were your feet and legs and hands positioned as you came to a stop?
Pretty much where they're supposed to be, I guess. What I have to concentrate on is relaxing when I fall, so that I can absorb the hit into the wall with my legs. I've gotten better at it. My instinctive reaction is to tense up, and I've had to train myself out of that.
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
dredsovrn
Apr 16, 2004, 10:35 PM
Post #7 of 19
(8313 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2003
Posts: 1226
|
Nice post. Just remembering that much about what happened shows a greater awareness. I have yet to fall on my gear (just started leading recently). It can make it difficult to recenter. The Way does help when you find it though. One of my climbing partners is a high level martial artist, and is a big help in focusing on the now.
|
|
|
|
|
lou_dale
Apr 25, 2004, 1:06 AM
Post #8 of 19
(8313 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 27, 2003
Posts: 53
|
excellent post and a great testament to WW and the principles. i have been on vacation across country and back again and since having gone through the WW course, i must say that i have seen and felt and shown magnificent results. it wasn't enough to just merely read books. i had done this and i had done this over and over. but something was very different about this course and of course, the man teaching the course. we all know many great climbers, i'm sure. we also know great authors. i must say that i have two great climbers, who happen to be great authors as well as great teachers - Arno Ilgner and John Long. I began top roping 10 years ago, which really means i have had a long time to work on technique, or so you would think. In that process, i read books - so many, we have a cabinet just for these books. Then two years ago, we felt it was time to break away and lead. The time was here and it was more than overdue and appropriate.
After doing some minor league things, we then took two separate courses from the Desiderata Institute, RE-READ Mr. Long's books, as well as the WW book.
In the past year, our progress has exploded. We are now at least 2 full grades above our limit from when we took the WW course. In May, that will be a year. The future is wide open for us and I am on the brink of many new and wonderful climbs.
I have again re-read John Long's books and for some reason, they speak more to me now than ever before as does Arno's book. It comes with a little bit of time and work.
if anybody has not had the opportunity to take the course, please - do yourself a favor, make a lifelong investment if climbing is the life you love. It is for me. If you do not have Mr. Long's books.....please, do yourself a favor - get the books............the books, the courses, the words of wisdom that comes from 30 years of experience and the fact that they both have survived to tell us how it was and how it can be.
I cannot say enough........but I listen to folks writing and Jay is to me, the ultimate student and climber because he practices so eloquently what arno teaches.
I love how John Long and Arno Ilgner teach, both sounding differently but both having the same soul when it comes to climbing.
I admire them both for doing what they love to do and sharing their knowledge with us. I am thankful to Jay for starting this group and helping to maintain it and show all of us that these are not just mere words, these are words that will help us all become better at the one sport we adore.
If we are to become better climbers (and people) - this is the course, these are the men, this is the place. I am grateful for having the opportunities i have had and always look forward to learning more, growing more, and becoming a better student of the warrior's way myself.
I may be a little late in getting on the scene (nearly 53)...but as I saw on the back of the latest Rock & Ice - an 83 year old gent, trad leading a 5.10 at JT. I have many wonderful years left to look forward to, probably a lot more books to read, definitely more to learn - from great teachers and authors as well as the wonderful people here on this forum who inspire us all.
Life is good.........climbing is our passion..........and to coin our southern selves...........it just don't get no better'n dis.
LOU
|
|
|
|
|
evan
Apr 30, 2004, 4:49 PM
Post #9 of 19
(8313 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 10, 2002
Posts: 32
|
I guess I'll feed into the thread and post up.
April 9th - New River Gorge > "The Entertainer" - 5.10a trad
I'm a bit pumped, but I need to place some gear to protect the next moves otherwise I'm bouncing off of a ledge. I start breathing intentionally, tell myself to trust a finger lock, and place a small nut smoothly, quickly and confidently. I pause, scan the route, and then gun up to a large horizontal crack. Great gear. Glad that I brought up that #4 Friend after scanning the route from the ground. Although I do hang about, resting on useable holds, when I do commit I do so abruptly, which was my intention when I left the ground. I'm happy with how I've placed gear, looking for opportunities while I climb. Result - my first 5.10 onsight.
April 10th - Summersville Lake > "All the Way Baby" - 5.12b sport
End of day burn for sh_ts and giggles. I surprise myself by unlocking the crux after a couple of tries. I've never climbed anything this overhanging outside of a gym. I try for the redpoint later; "trying" was a mistake. Although I didn't use the word, I was a bit sloppy and climbed with a high expectation of being able to send. My attempts are not as clean, and the joy from the experience almost completely disappears in the process. There was a lot of negative talk after I fell from the crux.
What I learned - communicate better with my belayer. Brian is used to belaying me on trad, not sport. He shorted me a couple of times, due to how dynamic my moves become when I climb anything overhanging. I should have made this clear before leaving the ground. It took an hour break, which was too long. He also made a good point about my last attempt, "You didn't give it the respect you did the first time." Well said.
April 11th - "High Times" > 5.10c trad
The crown jewel of my trip. The difference between how I climbed this route this year and last was astounding. Last year, I was petrified and overprotected the climb. This year, even though I was tired, I climbed smoothly, breathing constantly, placed gear swiftly and enjoyed every minute. I gave it two burns, both times I fell from the crux near the anchors. I took some extra falls the second time onto a green camalot.
What I learned - actually, more "what I did." In one part of the climb, where last year I pumped out, overprotected, and called for take I actually heard a voice in my head that said "TRUST." I fought through the jams, placed gear, and even though I was pumped fought through to the crux. I assessed the fall consequences quickly, and went for it. I fell off of a wet block / layback move at the top. After I stopped making excuses and accepted the fact the hold was wet, I found a way to use it.
Of all the climbs I did that weekend, this was the one I enjoyed the most.
Thanks everyone for contributing to the thread, and the forum. I'm excited about the season...
Respects
- Evan
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Apr 30, 2004, 5:47 PM
Post #10 of 19
(8313 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
Nice post.
In reply to: April 10th - Summersville Lake > "All the Way Baby" - 5.12b sport End of day burn for sh_ts and giggles. I surprise myself by unlocking the crux after a couple of tries...I try for the redpoint later; "trying" was a mistake. Although I didn't use the word, I was a bit sloppy and climbed with a high expectation of being able to send.
I redpointed my first 12b ("Carpe Diem") at the end of a long weekend of hard climbing. I had already climbed 12 routes that weekend, and since I "knew" I was too tired to send Carpe, I wasn't "trying to. The next thing I knew, I was through the crux and clipping the last bolt. When I got down, my partner said to me, "I knew you were going to redpoint it; I've never seen you climb it so smoothly." Expectations are a funny thing. Having no expectation of redpointing just allowed me to climb, and not only did this result in a redpoint, but a redpoint while I was physically tired.
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
evan
Apr 30, 2004, 8:12 PM
Post #11 of 19
(8313 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 10, 2002
Posts: 32
|
Hey Jay,
Yeah, I was really happy with my first attempt. I just had so much fun working that line. There was one amazing move where I basically had to plant the ball of my right foot up near my face, flag my left leg underneath, lock off my right arm and suck in my body so I was completely horizontal so I could quickly match on a good sidepull.
I could have done without the spinning bolt hangers though; that was kind of irritating.
I redpointed my first 5.12 last season, so I still get pretty jittery climbing something that sustained.
Cheers,
Evan
|
|
|
|
|
alpnclmbr1
May 5, 2004, 7:24 PM
Post #12 of 19
(8313 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 10, 2002
Posts: 3060
|
In reply to: I redpointed my first 12b ("Carpe Diem") at the end of a long weekend of hard climbing. I had already climbed 12 routes that weekend, and since I "knew" I was too tired to send Carpe, I wasn't "trying to. The next thing I knew, I was through the crux and clipping the last bolt. When I got down, my partner said to me, "I knew you were going to redpoint it; I've never seen you climb it so smoothly." Expectations are a funny thing. Having no expectation of redpointing just allowed me to climb, and not only did this result in a redpoint, but a redpoint while I was physically tired. -Jay
Aside from fear/danger issues, (this one is based on fear of failure) I think this is probably one of the more notable mental issues that I have had to deal with.
Several of my best leads at the time happened exactly as Jay described. It is an experience that you will remember and try to get back to as much as you can.
|
|
|
|
|
joe
Jun 11, 2004, 9:12 PM
Post #13 of 19
(8313 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 22, 2003
Posts: 897
|
guess i'll add a little to this.
a couple of days ago i went to go onsight Excuse Station (11c) in Indian Creek, a splitter crack that starts at about two inches and continues up red camalot size to a pretty good rest. after the rest is a section of .75 camalots that can be liebacked to the chains.
well, i fully sent up to the rest and felt super solid. i got to the last bit and noticed i needed two .75 camalot or 1.5 friend sized cams, which i didn't have. i say "needed" in the sense that two cams would've kept my head cool enough to send, which i definately had strength to do.
so i shoved in a red camalot that was fully tipped out and scary looking and continued to milk the rest. i assesed the situation. i could run it out to the chains and risk a fall onto the tipped out cam. if it would've ripped, i would've fallen about 40 feet but it would've been a safe fall. still, i couldn't muster the courage and hung on the dicey peice and tagged up the cams i needed.
i was onsighting and the last bit looked a lot harder than it ended up being. if i had known it wasn't too bad, i might have been able to punch it ten feet to the anchors. if i had the gear, i know that i would've gotten the onsight. pretty sure, anyway.
don't know if anyone can glean any info or comment on this. just thought i'd add my experience. basically, i gotta quit bringing too little gear.
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Jun 11, 2004, 10:33 PM
Post #14 of 19
(8313 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: so i shoved in a red camalot that was fully tipped out and scary looking and continued to milk the rest. i assesed the situation. i could run it out to the chains and risk a fall onto the tipped out cam. if it would've ripped, i would've fallen about 40 feet but it would've been a safe fall.
A 40-foot fall onto a cam in sandstone doesn't sound safe to me.
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
joe
Jun 11, 2004, 11:50 PM
Post #15 of 19
(8313 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 22, 2003
Posts: 897
|
it was a 160' pitch so i wouldn't have decked. would've been scary but something would have held. heh.
|
|
|
|
|
dredsovrn
Jun 18, 2004, 11:34 PM
Post #16 of 19
(8313 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2003
Posts: 1226
|
In reply to: Nice post. In reply to: April 10th - Summersville Lake > "All the Way Baby" - 5.12b sport End of day burn for sh_ts and giggles. I surprise myself by unlocking the crux after a couple of tries...I try for the redpoint later; "trying" was a mistake. Although I didn't use the word, I was a bit sloppy and climbed with a high expectation of being able to send. I redpointed my first 12b ("Carpe Diem") at the end of a long weekend of hard climbing. I had already climbed 12 routes that weekend, and since I "knew" I was too tired to send Carpe, I wasn't "trying to. The next thing I knew, I was through the crux and clipping the last bolt. When I got down, my partner said to me, "I knew you were going to redpoint it; I've never seen you climb it so smoothly." Expectations are a funny thing. Having no expectation of redpointing just allowed me to climb, and not only did this result in a redpoint, but a redpoint while I was physically tired. -Jay
Great stuff all the way on this thread. I hope I can keep my narrative as interesting. I find myself coming back to this forum and to the book to bring things back into focus. Sometimes I feel like I am flowing and having a good time and crank hard, and sometimes I am scared to death. The logical processes help a lot when I remember them.
Similar to above, although I have not finished the climb, I was belaying my partner on a .12b he wanted to work on. I didn't even intend to try it, maybe on TR if he made it. He finally threw in the towel after peeling off a few times. I figured I would give it a shot and climb to where his last draw was we cleaned them.
I made it to the third bolt and started working into the sustained crux section and felt pretty good. It was hard climbing, and I was struggling a bit to find my feet and balance since it was an overhaning arete, but found positions and felt reasonably good. I climbed up to the fourth bolt (the last draw) and looked up at the bolt #5 about 10' higher.
My buddy yelled "keep going," so I did. It was getting harder not easier, but I was still going. A few more moves and I find myself hanging on a sloping edge with my right hand eyeballing the bolt (the bolt is to the left). I reached over with my left, switched hands, pulled a draw off the right side of my harness, put it in my teeth, switched hands again, and clipped with the left. I was pretty pumped at that point and looked down to see what the fall looked like. OK I guess. I reached for the rope. My fingers are peeling, I tentatively (mistake) pulled slack. At chest high I am airborne. Clean fall for about 16'. Now it is dark and we pack it in.
Not exactly the kind of results others are having, but the lack of expectations helped me to get on and make it to where I did in the first place. I clearly lost some focus once I was leading. By the way, I had four draws on the left side of my harness. That fact, coupled with the tentative clip attempt, and my lack of breathing kept me from pressing on to the easier climbing above.
Looking at those facts made me realize that I can do the climb (one that I would not have attempted) and need to keep the RWW in mind when I am up there. Going back tomorrow.
|
|
|
|
|
dirtineye
Jun 19, 2004, 1:55 PM
Post #17 of 19
(8313 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2003
Posts: 5590
|
Sounds like a good analysis and plan for the future to me.
I usually try to have equal numbers of slings on either side of my harness, and I also try to make sure that I use em equally so that at a hard section I can get one with either hand easily.
Don't worry about your results being different, you seem to be getting what you need to progress. Yoo got a large part of a process that you can take to other climbs. The individual result is pretty meaningless compared to that.
My own warrior results relate to mustering enough discipline to lose the nearly 20 pounds I gained while injured LOL.
|
|
|
|
|
cathy
Jun 28, 2004, 9:41 PM
Post #18 of 19
(8313 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 21, 2004
Posts: 14
|
Nice post! I can tell cuz my hands are sweating.
|
|
|
|
|
alpinerock
Sep 18, 2004, 3:21 PM
Post #19 of 19
(8313 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 17, 2003
Posts: 600
|
I was up AF canyon yesterday and got on a route that had previously completely thrashed me, i would get scared of the fall, get gripped and loose my flow even though the falls are perfectly safe, it was overhanging enough so that you barely hit the rock when you fall. i was at the second bolt and feeling shaky, i made the clip and suddenly relaxed, because i was taking the observers postion i was able to realize the reason for the relaxation, i then made one or two moves putting me 3 or 4 feet above the last bolt, i looked up reminding myself to keep "soft eyes focus" and noted a jug another 5 feet from my current postion,i eyed the hold, sunk down, told my belayer to give me slack and told myself "commit" i then dynoed to the hold, sticking it and making the next clip, as my eyes scanned the crux section that followed that clip, i noticed another more juggy hold about a body length away, feeling refreshed and confident i repeated my ritual and commited, i was able to stick the dyno, but fumbled the clip and ended up falling 25 feet. Although i didn't get the route, this was a breakthough for me personally, before i have had problems climbing dynamically on lead when required, this experiance has been a valuble learning tool for me and getting though that phantom fear of dynamic motion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
