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skibabeage
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Apr 12, 2004, 12:36 AM
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copperhead
Apr 12, 2004, 6:39 PM
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Human overpopulation is global problem #1 and both the Earth and society are suffering.
Close the borders, damnit!!!!!!!
Save a squirrel. Run over a pedestrian.
Support Darwinism.
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socalclimber
Apr 13, 2004, 1:57 AM
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My observation is that Darwin doesn't need our support, we seem to find a way, one way or the other 8)
Robert
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indigo_nite
Apr 13, 2004, 11:12 PM
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economic and immigration issues would not be solved by closed borders. people will cross illegally for an opportunity to better themselves financially. there is something wrong with taking your business abroad b/c you can find such cheap labor (perhaps I've naive as a non-business owner) and then blocking access to someone wanting to improve their livelihood in the states.
I hope that the Sierra Club does not become mired in immigration and resultingly racial politics. it would be a turn off to myself and I suspect the wide variety of people who join in Sierra Club hikes/trips.
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hikerken
Apr 14, 2004, 5:57 AM
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Indigo, the Sierra Club is not about neat trips into the wilderness, but preservation of the wilderness, and other natural resources. ( I say that as an outings chair)
To simply ignore immigration as an aspect of population growth, is the stupidist thing I"ve ever heard! That is not to endorse any particular solution, but rather, to change the current Sierra Club policy, which is to not talk about, not learn about, not educate about, immigration issues and effects upon the environment.
However, that is not the real issue, here. It is about power. No different than national political parties.
From the Groundswell site: "The three candidates of primary concern are Dick Lamm, Frank Morris, and David Pimentel. Advanced by a group called "SUSPS," these candidates have no Sierra Club experience -- but they do hold interlocking roles on the governing Boards of outside anti-immigration organizations, some of whom are actively seeking to influence the Sierra Club's election. "
Lets see, David Pimentel, is, indeed, on the governing board of an outside organization, that does have an immigration policy......that radical organization, the AUDUBON SOCIETY!! He is a professional Environmental scientist at Cornell University.
Dick Lamm, longtime friend of SC founder David Brower, who has been a SC member since the early 60's. Yep, one of those "noobs"!!
What they don't mention is that the "powers" have put forth three candidates who are only on the ballot so that they can place a candidates statement AGAINST the "outsiders", and actually ask people NOT to vote for themselves, but the incumbents running. I've never heard of such a thing in an election!
Question Authority!
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mike_ok
Apr 14, 2004, 9:14 PM
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Anti-immigration is not pro-environment, its pro-U.S.-environment. If we take seriously the ecological impact immigration and emigration have around the world, the subject becomes much more complex than "let's close the borders."
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nealric
Apr 15, 2004, 4:38 AM
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Registered: Feb 21, 2004
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The immigration issue seems incredibally narrow minded.
Immigration will have no effect on world population. If they are mad about that- why dont they run for planned parenthood board?
I suspect that the sierra club has a support base made up of quite a few liberals- doeset seem the best way to speak for them.
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copperhead
Apr 15, 2004, 6:32 PM
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So then, is US immigration a good thing?
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xkyczar
Apr 16, 2004, 7:20 PM
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Yes
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copperhead
Apr 16, 2004, 9:02 PM
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Why?
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mountainmadness
Apr 18, 2004, 5:51 PM
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I see how the there view is just racist plain and simple. They fail to realize that there would not be an immigration issue had not there "fore-fathers" raped,pillaged and robbed all of the resources in Mexico and Central Americas. This reminds me of how Hitler used the Jews as the reason for all of the worlds wrongs. Just like Pete Wilson using an anti-Mexican platfrom to bolster his career.
I know those board member have their white sheets in the closet.
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tempestwind
Apr 20, 2004, 7:50 PM
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Registered: Mar 23, 2004
Posts: 133
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:deadhorse:
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kailas
May 25, 2004, 4:41 PM
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Registered: May 23, 2004
Posts: 43
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The problem of illegal immigration is just a symptom of overpopulation,
there are billions of people that would love to come to this country, as well as other countries (ie.. Canada, Britain, France, etc...) because they think they can get good jobs. But can you imagine the USA with the population of china within our borders. I've been to India and China, nice place to visit but I sure wouldn't want to live there, espcially India, their enviroment is trashed. They don't understand enviromental presevation, they live for the day.
There is no question that too many people damage the enviroment and if the Sierra club doesn't take a stance on immigration they will be in a long line of Americans with their heads in the sand ignoring the problem.
It has nothing to do with racism it's a numbers game pure and simple. Americans are so naive and many have to rap reality in emotional terminology to justify their positions.
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