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bratwurst
Apr 16, 2004, 11:32 AM
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Hi there,
Anybody going to Patagonia first two weeks of December? I'm looking for climbing partners between 4-21 Dec (rock-climbing, NO mountaineering). Or maybe one of you might have some useful information re. people living out there on a permanent basis, locals etc.?
Thanks
Chrissy
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yanqui
Apr 16, 2004, 12:31 PM
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I won't be able to serve as a partner, sorry, but I have climbed extensively in the the north of Patagonia and a little bit in the south. What areas would you like to know about?
Tim
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bratwurst
Apr 16, 2004, 8:21 PM
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:D
Oh, this is great news. I'll be heading down towards Bariloche to stay with some friends who already told me that there would be climbing down there. Hopefully they've got a local climbing shop for more information. On the other hand, if you can give me some tips or at least a website to go on, would be much appreciated.
After that I'm planning to head down towards Fitz Roy area (not really a mountaineer type, though), as well as Torres del Paine. Then all the way down to Ushuaja, back up east coast.
Cheers
C.
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yanqui
Apr 19, 2004, 2:07 PM
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Good for you: the Frey is one of my all time favorite cragging areas. Enjoy!!!
As far as I know there isn't any good beta on the internet, but there is a guide available in Argentina and written by Rolando Garibotti (who, by the way, is one of the stronger climbers climbing today). The guide is pretty comprehensive, but a word of warning: many of the routes are reasonably well protected, and others are downright safe, but some other routes are definitely death routes, where a leader fall could result in severe injury or death. And this information cannot be gleaned from the guide. For that, you can try talking to the kids who work in the refugio, or other climbers in the area (do you speak Spanish?). A little more advice about the guide: sometimes bolts which are shown have been removed or do not exist and the ratings have to be some the most inconsistent I've ever seen. Also: I'd definitely take the star rating with a grain of salt.
What kinds of grades (YDS) are interested in climbing? If you like, I can make you a little 'hit list' of climbs that I particularly enjoy.
Tim
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yanqui
Apr 19, 2004, 2:31 PM
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Opps ...
I got so excited about thinking about the Frey that I didn't see the second part of your post.
There's actually some pretty good bouldering and ok sport routes on the crags around El Chalten (I don't mean to be vulgar, but have you ever heard of the phrase: masturbating in a whorehouse? This is kind of an inside joke for hardened RC.COM users). Apparently there has even been some new route development since my last visit to the area in 2000.
I had actually figured that if you were trying to get beta on RC.COM about Fitz Roy or Cerro Torre, that I might get a little rude.
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bratwurst
Apr 19, 2004, 7:53 PM
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Ahhh, so much to find out but that's part of the fun planning a trip, right? Such a shame that I'm not a mountaineer, that would even be more fun. But I'm not fit enough for that.
Still, a couple of questions - might be silly ones to you but not to a novice when it comes to climbing in Argentina:
1. I guess the "frey" is the Fitz Roy area?
2. thanks so much for the tips on route descriptions and potential "sandbagging". I'll take a rack of Aliens which accompany me on every trip - so easy to place, luuuvely.
3. Grades? What's YDS? That very much depends on the type of rock. Here in the Frankenjura (limestone), I can comfortably onsight F6b/6b+, aim is to increase onsighting to 6b+/6c by December. Limestone climbing as here in Germany tends to get a bit boring, it's always "pulling left, pulling right", very much goes on your elbows and not much technique involved. Unlike on gritstone in the UK. It's so different du to the fact that you have to place your own gear and the type of climbing is so special - have you been? It's my favourite!
4. What sort of grading system do you have in Argentina?
5. What type of rock would the rock-climbing areas be?
Sorry for so many questions but since you replied, you're in it, mate. So thanks for your help! I am currently looking at my routing to try to plan a couple of days climbing in your area at the end. If it's only 65kms from B.A., it should be feasable. Is there any accomodation down there? Backpacker, B&B?
Thanks so much!
Chrissy
p.s.: I do speak a little Spanish (2 courses), a little Italian (1 intensive course), lots of French, so I guess I'll get by.
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tim
Apr 19, 2004, 8:09 PM
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In reply to: There's actually some pretty good bouldering and ok sport routes on the crags around El Chalten (I don't mean to be vulgar, but have you ever heard of the phrase: masturbating in a whorehouse? This is kind of an inside joke for hardened RC.COM users). Apparently there has even been some new route development since my last visit to the area in 2000. I had actually figured that if you were trying to get beta on RC.COM about Fitz Roy or Cerro Torre, that I might get a little rude.
Hey now, there's a handful of people here who have been down that way.
As of last February there had been a crapload of sport routes and new bouldering problems reported around Chalten, on the off chance it, say, rains or snows ;-). Pepe at La Chocolateria seemed to have the best handle on the situation, if you are headed down that way.
ps. Make some room in your budget for a couple pizzas at Patagonicus. Best food in El Chalten by a mile.
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tim
Apr 19, 2004, 8:18 PM
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In reply to: Ahhh, so much to find out but that's part of the fun planning a trip, right? Such a shame that I'm not a mountaineer, that would even be more fun. But I'm not fit enough for that.
Most people aren't. I was going to try and jump on El Mocho while I was down there but even that was in suicidal condition. If you have not been to southern Patagonia before, don't worry, you'll understand -- it's either cold, or windy, most of the time. Concentrate on enjoying yourself.
In reply to: 1. I guess the "frey" is the Fitz Roy area?
Frey is Refugio Frey, up in the Cerro Catedral massif near Bariloche. You will need to hike in about 3-4 hours but it's very worth it. People from all over trek in, some climb, some don't; there are tons of routes from French grade 5a to 7c all around the Refugio. Give yourself 3-4 days or ideally a whole week to enjoy the area, it's great and the weather is much kinder than it is down south. Aguja Frey is right outside the Refugio and has two beautiful moderate routes on it; Torre Principal was another standout mentioned to me while I was there, but my wife and I were only there for a day, and I had a broken toe, so I stuck to the easier lines. Bring a decent rack, say, nuts, Aliens, and a few hand-size cams, and you should be fine on any of the routes I mentioned.
In reply to: 2. thanks so much for the tips on route descriptions and potential "sandbagging". I'll take a rack of Aliens which accompany me on every trip - so easy to place, luuuvely.
Oh, and take some long slings, too.
In reply to: 3. Grades? What's YDS?
Yosemite Decimal System -- 5.0 to 5.15 style. If you're climbing 6b+ in the Frankenjura, you will have a wide variety of options at Frey and around El Chalten.
In reply to: 4. What sort of grading system do you have in Argentina?
French.
In reply to: 5. What type of rock would the rock-climbing areas be?
Granite.
In reply to: Backpacker, B&B?
The Refugio (or free campsites) at Frey, and several cheap hostels around El Chalten, are the way to go, in my opinion.
Sorry to jump in like this, yanqui you can shoot me down anytime, but I was there last February and Chrissy, yanqui is not pulling your leg, you MUST include a trip to Frey in your vacation. You won't regret it.
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bratwurst
Apr 19, 2004, 8:20 PM
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Cool, I loke the food part, will also speak to Pepe at La Chocolateria. My major question would be: is it ok to just go down to El C. and ask around when I'm down there to hook up with some climbers? Or is it like in some countries in Europe that they don't like to take anybody else other than those they know? I had pretty good experience in South Africa just hooking up with people through the internet or that I just had the phone number of. Same in the UK - you can literally walk up the crag and join in. A bit more tricky in Germany, many crags are hidden and difficult to find if you don't know where you're going.
Guess El C. will be difficult without transport? Although I heard that there is bus transport but where to and how close to where the crags are?
Cheers :D
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bratwurst
Apr 19, 2004, 8:26 PM
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Hi Tim,
Ahh, someone online, gooood. I'm sure that yanqui is not upset, saves him some time. Guess I need to start extending my walk-in trips, or need to hire a sherpa. Had an artificial hip put in Dec 2001, which didn't allow me up until now to carry heavy gear, that's the only drawback. Of course easy here in the Frankenjura, since the walk-ins are no longer than 20 mins and not that steep at all. But I guess I can work on all that and train my leg to take up more gear - got the whole year to increase the weight of my backpack...- other than that, I can only recommend it to anyone, a new hip can give you just that extra flexibility to reach that next hold.... fab!
Cheers
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tim
Apr 19, 2004, 8:40 PM
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In reply to: Cool, I loke the food part, will also speak to Pepe at La Chocolateria. My major question would be: is it ok to just go down to El C. and ask around when I'm down there to hook up with some climbers? Or is it like in some countries in Europe that they don't like to take anybody else other than those they know? I had pretty good experience in South Africa just hooking up with people through the internet or that I just had the phone number of. Same in the UK - you can literally walk up the crag and join in. A bit more tricky in Germany, many crags are hidden and difficult to find if you don't know where you're going.
Hard to say, most climbers in El Chalten are (were) hardened alpinists after large objectives when we were there. There are guide services if you are into that sort of thing -- I think John Bragg guides for one, the Benegas brothers have their own -- you might want to see if anyone you meet up at Frey is headed to El Chalten and re-rendezvous with them, or else find someone who wants to go at the same time you do. I would not be too optimistic about finding a spur-of-the-moment partner in El Chalten.
At Frey it should be no problem, the surrounding crags are not too committing and people go there for fun, sunny climbing. I met a Briton on vacation who was short a partner in the morning, taped my toe up and climbed the rest of the time at Frey with him, and had a great time.
In reply to: Guess El C. will be difficult without transport? Although I heard that there is bus transport but where to and how close to where the crags are?
You can get a bus from El Calafate to El Chalten no problem. El Calafate has air service and bus service from major citiies in the North. My wife and I walked all around town, in to Cerro Torre (near the base), back out, etc. etc... the big towers are more of a hump for sure than the short cliffs in town, but even for those the trails are good and not too steep. (Unless you cross-country to the base of El Mocho to get a 'better look' ;-))
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bratwurst
Apr 20, 2004, 1:06 PM
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This is great help, thanks so much! I'll also get in contact with our local subsidiary in B.A. and ask them to buy the local climbing guide. Yanqui already recommended Rolando Garibotti's guide...
Must go - meetiong preparations... - how do people not work and climb and still live without and regular income....? I wonder...
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yanqui
Apr 20, 2004, 1:30 PM
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In reply to: I am currently looking at my routing to try to plan a couple of days climbing in your area at the end. If it's only 65kms from B.A., it should be feasable. Is there any accomodation down there? Backpacker, B&B?
Actually, except for climbing gyms there is absolutely no climbing near to Buenos Aires. Flat, flat flat. I live about 400 kms south of Buenos Aires (about a six hour bus ride) and there's tons of nice rock to climb, as long as it doesn't matter that you won't get more than 20 meters off the ground. There are dozens of nice 6b or 6b+ sport routes that you can try. The only bad point is that some of the nicest routes tend to be kind of hot and sunny in December, but there are still plenty of nice things to climb in the shade. Do you like bouldering?
If you like, you can stay at my place for a few days, as a guest, as long as you leave a few days before Christmas (I will surely be going to my in-laws house, far away in Rio IV for the holidays). If that works for you, write me an e-mail and we can make arrangements. In fact, you may even want to stop in Balcarce (where I live) BEFORE you go to Bariloche and I can give you the face to face beta.
Tim
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bratwurst
Apr 21, 2004, 9:22 AM
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Oops, might have misread on the website where Balcare is located - thought it was near mar del Plata? Guess that's part of the game of pulling information together for a trip.
Thanks for the offer, I'll have a look at the total routing. Was actually going to fly to Bariloche from B.A. after a couple of days in the city. Guess the busride from Balcare to Bariloche would be far too long, right? Would need to get bus back to B.A. and take flight? My trip dates are 3-21 Dec anyhow, so it wouldn't coincide with Xmas.
Thanks so much for helping an ignorant German..., buit it's good fun. Let me know when you're bored.
Ta
C.
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yanqui
Apr 21, 2004, 1:32 PM
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That's right, Balcarce is 65 km from Mar Del Plata. The thing is Mar Del Plata is 400+ kms south of Buenos Aires. Bariloche is about 1400 km from Balcarce. And Fitz Roy is a long, long way south from Bariloche: if you go by the coast highway it must be close to 2000 km. It's a big country.
I'm not sure if there will be direct flights from Mar Del Plata to Bariloche in December. Sometimes there are and sometimes there aren't. There are always buses (about 18 hours on a bus): the locals tend to travel much more by bus in Argentina than in planes. Also: there are always planes from Mar Del Plata to Buenos Aires (a quick flight).
Just want to let you know, in case you want to stop by for a few days in Balcarce, it's no imposition at all. 3 weeks isn't much time to take in what you want to take in, but good luck!
Tim
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