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Rap chains connected to anchor bolts?
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crackaddict


Apr 16, 2002, 2:59 PM
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Rap chains connected to anchor bolts?
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Recently I have noticed a route developer in Queen Creek Canyon AZ has been putting up routes with rap chains directly bolted through the links.

First thing I thought was how cheap!
Then as I looked at them closer I noticed that the link below the one that is anchored rubs against the rock.
And seems to force the bolt away from the rock.
The anchor bolt sits out about a 1/2 inch more than it normally should.
3 1/2 inch bolts are standard lentgth out there.

When I bolt a route I prefer to use either rap hangers or hangers with screwgate quicklinks and chains. So this does'nt seem right or safe to me.

I have not seen this developer out there yet or come across anyone who knows him. But I am finding more and more of his routes poping up.

Has anyone else come across these kind of rap chains before any where else?

What do you guys think of this style of rap chains?

Let me know what you think and if anyone is confused about my explaination I will try and get a picture posted.

Signed
Not to sure about this!


[ This Message was edited by: crackaddict on 2002-04-16 15:01 ]


madscientist


Apr 16, 2002, 3:14 PM
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Chains bolted directly to the rock are not as safe as the scenarios crackaddict uses. The bolts are farther out, and there is more torque on the bolts. This makes it easier to pull the bolts out. Also, if the chains don't hang freely, the bolt can feel an outward pull, which is not good. I have seen this practice before since it is cheaper, but I would also like to see the practice stop.


jgorris


Apr 16, 2002, 4:05 PM
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Has anyone else come across these kind of rap chains before any where else?

Yeah. Old wave. Before hangers were invented. I've seen swing-set chains with rivet (machine screw) bolts and washer stacks.

What do you guys think of this style of rap chains?

Not highly. To save the cost of a couple of hangers, the bolter has botched it.


verticallaw


Apr 16, 2002, 4:06 PM
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I agree with madscientist I have seen this out here and we just replaced it. I will avoid using a bolt that sits too far out from the wall.


crackaddict


Apr 17, 2002, 12:17 PM
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jgorris.
Swing set chains? On Rivets?
Holey Crap! Thats sketchy! Or just a sick joke!
Well I am glad not to see that happen anymnore.
I am glad to see that I am not the only one that thinks this kind of anchor should no be used,

It's really lame that someone who puts so much time and effort to put up a route. And then gets cheap with the top anchors.

Don't these guys understand that 100's of people are going to be on these routes?

And most of the time only one guy will lead the route and then all his friends will tope rope it. Using these unsafe anchors.

Very unresponsible for other peoples safety.

TO ANYONE WHO DOES THIS!
QUIT BEING A THIGHT WAD AND SPEND A COUPLE OF BUCKS ON SOME QUALITY ANCHOR HANGERS! IF YOU CANT DO IT RIGHT! DON'T DO IT AT ALL! PEOPLES LIVES ARE AT STAKE HERE!

Later

[ This Message was edited by: crackaddict on 2002-04-17 12:18 ]


jt512


Apr 17, 2002, 12:57 PM
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Is concern over this a weird Arizona thing? The anchors on nearly all our sport routes in CA are either chains directly bolted to the rock or shuts. Rap hangers are rarely used. I've never heard of a single case of failure of an anchor on any of these routes.

-Jay


djpuckle


Apr 17, 2002, 1:31 PM
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I saw some shiney new chains on:
Fat Boy Goes To The Pond
At The Pond, but sence I only use those to lower, I never toprope a sport route! I wasn't too worried.


crackaddict


Apr 17, 2002, 4:43 PM
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Hey jt thats good that none have failed in your area. What kind of rock are you talking about?
If it was granite I would'nt be as concerned.
But the rock I am talking about is dacite.
And depending on the area it can be very brittle. Due to the coarse of time and use. I have seen rock chip and erode away around the bolts, and have seen many anchor bolts not last long.
Welded cold shuts are common here and are prefered.
I just think its a little carless to use a less than bomber anchor in already brittle rock. When I have already seen what looks like bomber bolts not hold up.

Thats all.



[ This Message was edited by: crackaddict on 2002-04-17 16:47 ]


jt512


Apr 17, 2002, 8:05 PM
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Quote:
Hey jt thats good that none have failed in your area. What kind of rock are you talking about?


Some in granite, but there are chain anchors on most of the routes at New Jack City. Nobody really knows what kind of rock there is there, but whatever it is it is fairly chossy. Nevertheless I can't imagine a bolt failing there because of the way the chain is attached. I don't recall seeing any anchor bolts not fully in the rock, but at the same time, can't imagine how it is that the second link would allow them to be. Maybe...ahem...space was made for the second link. I'll have to look more closely next time I'm out there.

-Jay


treyr


Apr 18, 2002, 4:24 AM
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I like these types they could be harder to top out on but they are very safe!

Trob


joemor


Apr 18, 2002, 8:46 PM
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ive seen some routes with just two links bolted to the rock as a "cheep hanger", they look dodgy, dont know if id trust them.

joe


jt512


Apr 29, 2002, 2:44 PM
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Quote:
but there are chain anchors on most of the routes at New Jack City. Nobody really knows what kind of rock there is there, but whatever it is it is fairly chossy. Nevertheless I can't imagine a bolt failing there because of the way the chain is attached. I don't recall seeing any anchor bolts not fully in the rock, but at the same time, can't imagine how it is that the second link would allow them to be. Maybe...ahem...space was made for the second link. I'll have to look more closely next time I'm out there.


Yep, space was made in the rock to accommodate the second link of the chains, so that the bolt can be drilled in completely. Hey, it's New Jack, what can I say? We have bolted-on flakes, too.

-Jay



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