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arete2
Apr 17, 2002, 6:05 PM
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When do you think all of this climbing got started, and where do you think it got started? I would say it started with Moses he had to climb that mountain to get the Ten Commandments, probably no 5.13's but I am sure there was some pretty hard stuff.
Arete
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ravens_wing_jim
Apr 17, 2002, 6:21 PM
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Well, responding to your post(the origins of
rock climbing),
Rock climbing, is the highbred baby of
mountaineering.
As mountaineers started climbing higher
and more difficult mountains,
better rock climbing skills became assential.
Mountaineers started practicing these skills
on cliffs and rock formations and after time
it became a life of its own.
And TA DA! rock climbing was born.
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clam
Apr 22, 2002, 4:05 AM
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Check out this book (if you can find it) Jeremy Bernstein, Ascent: Of the Invention of Mountain Clmbing and Its Practice. Here are two quotes pertinent to your question. From page 19. "Alpinism - that is, mountain climbing practiced for its own sake, as a sport - was born in the Chamonix valley [France] in the latter half of the eightneenth century"
And a quote from page 29. "De Saussure climbed the Brevant, a pinnacle in the Aiguilles Rouges, across the valley from Mont Blanc..., which affords a superb view of Mont Blanc and the Aiguilles de Chamonix. He was entranced by the view, and Rebuffat writes, 'That day - July 24, 1760 - is a day of revelation; a great adventure begins. In the heart of a young man, for the first time in the world, there was formed an insane dream. A crazy desire, unreasonable, irrational was born: to climb Mont Blanc.' And in a very real sense, with de Saussure's fantasy the sport of mountaineering began." Read the whole book, it's fascinating.
Also check out Edward Wymper's Scrambles Amongst the Alps, for what it was like at the beginnings.
[ This Message was edited by: clam on 2002-04-21 21:09 ]
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bulldog
Apr 22, 2002, 4:28 AM
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I'd bet rockclimbing started millions of years before the story of Moses.
I know if a sabertooth tiger or some randy dino was after my butt, I'd be scaling some big walls! 5.13, heck, with a T-Rex sniffing their hindends, those dudes were probably sending 5.16! [this history of course was lost in the Ice which is why we are only back up to 5.15]
Bulldog
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jdcox_9
Apr 22, 2002, 4:54 AM
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IF there were a guide book for climbs in the sinai, who would be recorded as the first ascentionist of MT. SINAI? Do you think they would give Moses the credit, or some dude in the 20th century. I mean seriously, give some credit where credit is due. Moses did not have any lycra climbing tights. He was probably climbing in a heavy robe or something. And where could he get ahold of som magnesium carbonate? And since he went by himeself, it would be safe to assume he free soloed it. Impressive, huh? But what's more impressive is that he was in his mid 80's when he did it. Don't see many 80 year old mountaineers these days.
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krustyklimber
Apr 22, 2002, 5:29 AM
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What about the Anasazi they were really climbing 5.10 and better long before any "bible stories" time, the Shamans were climbing hard 11's and the ordinary folks from about 5.4 - 5.9 just to get to their dwellings!
Jeff
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apollodorus
Apr 22, 2002, 5:33 AM
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How could rock climbing be millions of years old? Writing is only about 5000 years old. How would explain topos before people knew how to write? And where would those cavemen get chalk? And bolts?
Rock climbing started in the 1960's, when Chuck Pratt went up the Crack of Doom and the Twilight Zone.
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dynamic
Apr 22, 2002, 6:51 AM
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I heard Al Gore invented rock climbing...
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hang_man
Apr 22, 2002, 1:44 PM
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hey nice one people.. haha.... should date back to our ancestors by the name of apes..?
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clam
Apr 22, 2002, 2:57 PM
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My vote goes to Al Gore, although Dan Quayle probabaly had something to do with it also. They must have had something to do with it since Al invented the Internet and Dan invented family values.
I wouldn't rule out Abraham. He left Ur of the Chaldees to get to the Holy Land. I'll bet a million bucks he had to do at least a 5.4 somewhere along the line to get there.
Don't forget Hannibal. He came across the Alps with ELEPHANTS! That's hard to beat!
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mtngypsy
Apr 22, 2002, 5:23 PM
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whoops
[ This Message was edited by: mtngypsy on 2002-04-22 10:24 ]
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mtngypsy
Apr 22, 2002, 5:23 PM
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It would be impossible to tell which tribe of the naked apes took to climbing first. If you believe in evalution we have never stopped climbing. My vote is for the Inca, having built cities at some of the highest elevations in history they probably took a day off or two in order to scramble up nearby by peaks and summits. Being thin and agile people the odd 5.9 move probably made little differance. Just a fun way to impress a young Inca lass.
[ This Message was edited by: mtngypsy on 2002-04-22 10:26 ]
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clam
Apr 26, 2002, 12:14 AM
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How about this! It's not necesaarily rock climbing, but is climbing nonetheless.
"The Japanese monk En no Shokaku made the fist known ascent of Mount Fuji (3,776 m), the highest summit in Japan. His feat represents the first recorded climb of a high-altitude mountain." The year - 633 A.D.
in Roger Frison-Roche, A History of Mountain Clmbing, p. 318.
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qacwac
Apr 26, 2002, 10:50 PM
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dynamic, that was hilarious.
first time something has made me laugh on here I think.
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crux_clipper
Apr 27, 2002, 12:30 AM
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Mountaineering was considered a 'gentlemens' sport in the early 20th century. How times have changed. Now climbing is about smelly, muscely, sweaty people, eating burnt toast, at the local camp site.
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tuffgirl
May 11, 2002, 12:11 PM
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Ok so I guess somewhere between a Al Gore 'n Moses- people started climbing so my question is (oh, the suspense)has the climbing motive changed? I know that's kind of an individual thing but . . . what do y'all think?
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icthos
May 11, 2002, 1:39 PM
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well, guys you missed the mark with moses. Abraham acutall climbed Mount Moriah in Genesis 22 around 2050 B.C. with isaac seconding him AND carrying a load of wood for the fire. as far as motives go, i'm not sure if the Lord is testing me on that rock, but Abraham showed his faith in Yahweh that day, if not only in his obiediance, but in just making it up the mountain at the ripe old age of 116. and if my memory serves me right, this preceeds the anasazi by around 3000 years and the incas by somewhere close to 2000? anyway, it preceeds moses by around 600 or so.
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abkaiser
May 13, 2002, 2:18 AM
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No, no, no...
Look, if you want to talk mythological tales, you could reference Jack & the Beanstalk! That boy must've been a sharp climber to work with a route that, while probably having jug after jug, reportedly went from ground to cloud level.
Or if you want to go back further, how about Greek mythology: Orpheus climbed down to Hell to rescue his wife, and then had to climb back out again. Certainly predates Cristianity, and was a helluva climb!
Andy
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kagunkie
May 13, 2002, 2:25 AM
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One time long ago some bootleggers were running from the revenuers and found that climbing a nearby cliff was a shure way to avoid capture. Thusly rock climbing was born.
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rocksous68
May 21, 2002, 12:57 AM
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But we cant forget about the people who were blasting the ways for the railroads to the west. what they did was free climbed with a rope tied around their ankles with dynamite on the other end. When they reached the area to blast, they then could pull up the dynamite, set the charge, then use the rope to descend swiftly before.........BOOM...
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socialclimber
Jul 6, 2002, 1:06 PM
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A potted history of the evolvment of Rock Climbing
Rock climbing started as an off season pass time for mountian climbers and was not taken too seriously in it's own right. I guess at some stage mountianeers realised if they applied their newly discovered rock climbing skills to alpinisim it gave them a few more options for getting to the summit.
Skip forward to the other end of the centuary and gym climbing devloped as an off season pass time for rock climbers, evolves into it's own genre, then spawns the concept of sport climbing. And nothing was the same again...
[ This Message was edited by: socialclimber on 2002-07-06 06:19 ]
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dpickard
Jul 19, 2002, 6:19 PM
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Here's the historian Arrian's description of the siege of a mountain fortress in 328 BC.
Alexander the Great: the capture of the Sogdian Rock
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wildtrail
Jul 19, 2002, 6:24 PM
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Long before that silly Moses stuff. Try the Incas.
Also, the Native Americans (forgot actaul tribe name) that lived in the cliff walls in AZ. They climbed up there and made holes to live in.
Steve
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biggernhell
Jul 19, 2002, 10:01 PM
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Anasazi....Like the shoes.
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jgill
Jul 21, 2002, 3:59 AM
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I suspect the British brought the true spirit of rock climbing to the mountain communities in the Alps. In the late 19th century (can't recall the year)Mummery astounded the local swiss guides with an exhibition of crack climbing - a technique unknown in the Alps at the time. Hence, the Mummery Crack.
Chuck Pratt was an absolutely phenomenal modern crack climber, but later.
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