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arete2
Apr 17, 2002, 5:58 PM
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Does anyone out there use power cleans to help them in their climbing. I have been doing them for football, and it seems that it should help with explosion. What do you think?
Arete
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bodyresults
Apr 17, 2002, 11:10 PM
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Powercleans are a great exercise for building lowerbody power and strength. They can help increase your vertical jump. If you need more power for dynos it might help but it probably should not be a high priority on your list of training exercises.
[ This Message was edited by: bodyresults on 2002-04-17 16:10 ]
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kaptk
Apr 17, 2002, 11:52 PM
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What are power cleans?
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metoliusmunchkin
Apr 18, 2002, 12:25 AM
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Yes... I was wondering the exact same thing. Could someone out there perhaps be so kind as to explain what the hell these things are?!
(They sound really cool! And I'm always up for some new training techniques!)
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arete2
Apr 18, 2002, 1:22 AM
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Here see if this helps. http://www.olympus.net/personal/cablebar/BASICS.htm
Arete
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bodyresults
Apr 18, 2002, 1:26 AM
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A power clean is performed with a barbell. With the bar resting on the floor you grab it with about shoulder width and pull the bar explosively up as high as possible while dropping down and catching it on the front of your shoulders. A good example can be found at http://www.coachsos.com/clean.html
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qacwac
Apr 18, 2002, 1:48 AM
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Power cleans rule. Especially for football and wrestling. I would say they'd have to help on the afore mentioned explosion and dyno's but on other stuff too. Theyt'll also give you nice traps right behind your neck.
For those who want to know what they are here's my attempt to explain.
YOU NEED A SPOTTER, WEIGHT BELT, and GROUND PADDING or LIFTING PLATFORM!!!
Start in a stancing position with the weight bar on the ground in front of you, feet shoulder width apart or lightly more. The bar should be perpendicular to you with one side going off to your right and the other off to your left. To begin have no wieght on the bar until you are comfortable. Also do the movements slowing and completely in control before attempt to actually do one) Bend down at the knees keeping your back straight and head up. Grasp the bar where your arms are just outside of your bent knees. Keep your arms locked out and back straight. Stand straight up and the bar will be hanging at your thighs. From here pull your arms up to your chest with your elbows high and to the sides. When the weight is chest level you will drop your body and very quickly roll your arms from above the weight to underneath it. Your elbows should point almost directly in front of you. (Kind of like if you reach up with both hands and grap you neck, except instead of your neck you will be holding the bar right below your Adam's apple) From dropping your body you will now be in somewhat of a squat position. (Actually you should be in the exact position to do a front squat) Now stand up. (This is the same movement of a front squat) That's a power clean.
Now to get the weight down bend your knees slightly and drop your elbows catching the bar on your thighs. (Yes, it sometimes hurts and gives you strawberries, especially if it's a new bar) Now lower the weight to the ground in the same manner you raised it, back straight, arms locked, head up, and bending at the knees. That's 1 repetition.
THINGS YOU MUST REMEMBER!!
You can seriously hurt yourself, even kill yourself doing this. You spotter must make sure you don't fall backwards and the weigth come down on you.
You can seriously mess your back up doing this if you bend it and don't use your legs.
You will seriously mess the floor up or your weights doing this because you won't be able to do it at some point and the bar and weight will fall from about 4' up onto the ground. If it's concrete, goodbye weights and if it's wood, goodbye floor.
All this said I would not advise anyone to try to do this from what I have written. Go to a gym and see it done, have the proper equipment and a spotter.
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jt512
Apr 18, 2002, 2:35 AM
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Quote:
A power clean is performed with a barbell. With the bar resting on the floor you grab it with about shoulder width and pull the bar explosively up as high as possible while dropping down and catching it on the front of your shoulders.
This sounds like a total waste of time for climbing. It's way too non-climbing specific. If you're going to weight train for climbing, your main exercises should resemble climbing movements, and you should augment these with exercises to train the antagonists to climbing movements.
-Jay
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woodse
Apr 18, 2002, 4:19 AM
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I agree with the previous post. In climbing you want as little extra weight as possible which includes excess muscle. I would focus more on sport-specific training. In climbing it's climbing! Although there are many other training exercises such as campusing, HIT training and other, I truly believe that the best is climbing along with light cardio to stay in shape.
woodsE
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dynamic
Apr 18, 2002, 5:04 AM
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dyno=explosion
obviously not for most moves, but certainly helpful for some dynos. the problem with them is perhaps adding lower body/back muscle.
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qacwac
Apr 18, 2002, 5:34 AM
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We aren't saying that power cleans are the best exercise for climbing. But they do have some use. If you've never done one then you have no idea the muscles it works and explosion it creates. I think they are why when I first started climbing I could dyno as well or better than people who had been climbing a year or two.
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arete2
Apr 19, 2002, 12:14 AM
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I am going to agree with the previous post, if you have never done them, you dont know what they do.
Arete
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jt512
Apr 19, 2002, 12:29 AM
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I wonder why no single book or article I have ever read on training for climbing recommends this exercise.
-Jay
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arete2
Apr 19, 2002, 12:36 AM
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You know what jt, I sit here and read your posts, and I wonder if you ever take anyone elses opinion on anything, you are so set in your ways it makes me sick. Maybe people like you are the reason it is never in books, so set in your ways and stubborn. Give other people a chance to voice their opinion without ripping them a new one.
Arete
[ This Message was edited by: arete2 on 2002-04-18 17:39 ]
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bodyresults
Apr 19, 2002, 12:45 AM
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Actually Ilg in his book The Outdoor Athlete discusses power cleans and other explosive exercises. That's the only climbing related book I've seen that discusses them.
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jt512
Apr 19, 2002, 6:30 PM
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You know what, Arete, I take the opinions of experienced climbers and trainers very seriously, and they (1) recomend climbing-specific exercises over non-specific weight training and (2) losing muscle mass in the legs, not gaining it. Ilg is an exception, but I think Ilg is a bit outdated and his book is not specifically written for rock climbing. Read Performance Rock Climibng by Goddard and Neumann and How to Climb 5.12 and Flash Training by Eric Horst.
-Jay
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tim
Apr 19, 2002, 7:19 PM
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Horst and Goddard are proposing training plans specific to hard, usually safe, usually nearby sport climbing. They clearly know what they're talking about.
HOWEVER
A great many of the old-school testpieces have cruxes that are dynamic and/or explosive on them. Furthermore, simply working on your fast-twitch muscles with bodyweight or similar can be a good way to address issues with imbalance (biceps vs. triceps, back vs. chest, weak lower legs, etc.). The power clean is one of the best full-body exercises in existence; it's worth being able to do simply as a warm-up. No one in their right mind is going to suggest that you push for double bodyweight on it, but you should also know that pretty much everyone on the Olympic weightlifting team can dunk a basketball, and this includes 5'6" lightweights.
You can always run more if you accidentally put on a few pounds of muscle. Whereas, if you never discover the imbalances in your muscles, one of these days you're likely to pop a tendon or develop a rotator cuff imbalance, and those SUCK. A lot.
And at least if you prefer trad, sometimes it's helpful to bring a little 'extra' to the crux, since blowing it is usually a bad idea.
I am not suggesting that pullups and bouldering won't give you more improvement than power cleans. I am suggesting that there are (or should be) other considerations in your training besides 'will it make me climb harder', unless your livelihood depends on it. The flexibility increases from doing ballistic, dynamic lifts like the clean and jerk are also non-negligible, and may help you when you least expect it.
YMMV. If you can't spare the 5-10 minutes to warm up, you will have issues. If you can, the power clean is a great full-body exercise that can get your bloodflow stimulated throughout your body and thereby reduce the chance of injuries (from cold muscles and ligaments).
[ This Message was edited by: jabbeaux on 2002-04-19 12:24 ]
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jdcox_9
Apr 19, 2002, 8:01 PM
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Arete2
You probably don't know me, but I have secretly spied on you while doing cleans. I'm not a stalker, but I have witnessed a set or two of cleans being done by you. I have also caught a glimse of you climbing. Again I want to reinterate that I am not a stalker. From my careful studies of your climbing technique(not a stalker) I have noticed that for many dynamic movements (for me at least) you do not even attempt to use a dyno. You simply extend your 'ape-index' and latch on. My point is you should dyno more often even if your tall self can reach. Ya know, just to make me feel good about myself. Anyway, You are what I would call a 'powerful dyno maniac' and I believe actions speak louder than words, so why don't you challenge any non-cleaners to a dyno competition. Heck, I'll challenge them for you. And I'll even join your side, considering I also perform cleans on a regular basis. Best of luck pal.
jdcox_9
P.S. I AM NOT A STALKER!!!
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