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10ftdrp


May 1, 2004, 10:22 AM
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Climbing + Religion
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I dont know if this belongs in this forum and im sorry if it doesn't. My church is wanting to plan a climbing trip ( Just to calm everyone it is to an indoor gym so you won't have to watch the n00bs) but i need a way to relate climbing to christianity besides "God, please don't let me die.." Does anyone have any ideas for this?
Thanks!
~Ryuu


Partner tgreene


May 1, 2004, 10:32 AM
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I would be happy to give you some some insight, but you must realize that's it's strictly from my own personal experiences and perspectives...

PM me and we'll exchange contact info, because this is one of "those issues" that simply is best to not open up on a public forum, where the non-believers can infest the thread with a bunch of anti-GOD rhetoric.

-Tim


b_fost


May 1, 2004, 10:33 AM
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um...no. you'll often find that God doesn't hang around in climbing gyms.


brianmccully


May 1, 2004, 10:44 AM
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Psalm 46
Psalm 23
ephesians 6:10
NIV bible


winglessangel


May 1, 2004, 10:56 AM
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I agree with tgreene , but Iwill answer anyway.

I don't believe in god or any reigion and honestly I can't really place God or any spiritual thing in climbing. (but I can't place it ANYWHERE)

Now, what I can place in climbing is what (most) religions try to tell people, i.e., the way people should behave.
You can tell your church grroup things like climbing gives you TRUST on people (your life is on the hands of the belayer). Or that it shows you that you shouldn't quit when things get too hard. And so on. Anyway, relate it the same way you would relate any group activity.


but again religion and politics should not be discussed here.


flying_dutchman


May 1, 2004, 10:59 AM
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Talk about trust - a big thing about climbing is trusting your partner and your gear (rope, pro...)


Partner tgreene


May 1, 2004, 11:12 AM
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In reply to:
but again religion and politics should not be discussed here.

Do yourself a HUGE favor, and never venture into Community... :mrgreen:


climbersoze


May 1, 2004, 11:45 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
but again religion and politics should not be discussed here.

Do yourself a HUGE favor, and never venture into Community... :mrgreen:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

true. true.


pinktricam


May 1, 2004, 11:46 AM
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I have to agree with the above posts suggesting trust. I would also add spiritual growth (as we apply that trust) and how that affects growth in a personal relationship with God as it relates to increasing trust in your equipment, placed pro and belayer with each fall safely caught, just as we learn and grow in our personal relationship with God as we trust Him in our daily lives and experience Him "catching" us in those times when we inevitably fall...hmm, come to think of it, maybe you could even throw in a little something about route finding and how we can look to God for the direction we need to go in and thus, keeping us safely "on route" in life, enabling us to reach the top of the mountain and actualize the incredible potential He's placed in each of us.

I like it! God bless your trip :!:


ben87


May 1, 2004, 1:40 PM
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hmm. I think that for a lot of people climbing lends itself to two major "spiritual" benefits:

1) a broad existentialism --acting conciously and deliberately, being responsible for yourself in situations where rescue or assistance may not be forthcoming, and generally a lot of thought devoted to ethical behavior,

2) and a "zen" thing -- being completely in the moment just doing what you are doing and not thinking about anything else. For me this is one of the greatest things climbing allows me to experience (occasionally).

Not really overt religion or God-related -- these two things are more philosophical or based in the eastern tradition, at least the way I've just described them. But to me they're a big part of what I think of as my religious life.

From the experience of being in the mountains generally, humilty, awe for god's creation, recognizing something larger than yourself, etc.

also, serious climbing certainly entails an awareness of mortality. then you've got "touching the void" type experiences. Of course that fellow has said he's an athiest, right? I don't remember if the experience confirmed that for him or led him to the belief.

unfortunatly a lot of this isn't found in the gym! :)


delarig


May 1, 2004, 3:13 PM
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Choices always were a problem for you, what you need is someone strong to guide you....like me.


bouldering-bumm
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May 1, 2004, 4:05 PM
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www.srcfc.org


smallnutsandbigballs


May 1, 2004, 5:07 PM
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Climbing IS my religion, and it doesn't have a damn thing to do with christianity.


vincent


May 1, 2004, 6:31 PM
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God is not a sport climber


jpearl


May 1, 2004, 6:58 PM
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OH NO, NOT AGAIN!

I just turned on RC.com and when I saw the "Climbing + Religion" thread, I had flashbacks to that catastrophic "Climbing and Religion" thread which now festers in the dark backpages of the community forums. Luckily, 10ftDrop has a more pinpoint approach in this thread, so we should hopefully steer clear of a major flamewar (yeah, right)!

Now on to business: I'm an "Orthodox" Jew and a Climber (50% gym rat, 40% boulderer, 10% outdoor toproper). As far as references to climbing in Torah, Tanach, and Talmud (or as you say, "Bible"), there are none. My "religious" approach to climbing is this: I don't climb on Shabbat. Otherwise, I realize that I am taking a risk by climbing. All I can do is proclaim "Baruch Hashem" (Thank G-d) before climbing, thankfull that my body is fully functional and here to climb another day. After that, I assume all risk with no one to blame but myself for whatever happens. That is the reality of climbing, and G-d willing I should never have to experience the risks I'm alluding to.

My "religious" advice is this. If you go climbing, don't focus on the "Religious" aspect of it all. There is none. Focus on the safety aspect of climbing. Focus on proper belay technique and properly communicating with your belayer. Focus on knowing your gear and what it can and cannot do. Focus on having a fun and enjoyable time.

And focus on doing it right so you can come back to do it another day. Just don't go skipping church to climb. If I'm missing prime climbing days to observe and honor Shabbat on Saturdays, then your arse better be planted in the pews Sunday morning while I finally get to hit the crags.


scuclimber


May 1, 2004, 7:22 PM
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There's a book titled Meditations of John Muir: Nature's Temple. Compiled and edited by Chris Highland and published by Wilderness Press, Berkeley. Muir was a devout Presbyterian and a damn good climber. That book should be able to help you some I think. I flip through it all the time.

Colin


nagatana


May 1, 2004, 7:55 PM
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In reply to:
My "religious" advice is this. If you go climbing, don't focus on the "Religious" aspect of it all.

Thank you.

Why must people associate everything with Jeebus? Go out and climb 'cause you like it.


tempestwind


May 1, 2004, 7:59 PM
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In reply to:
I agree with tgreene , but Iwill answer anyway.

I don't believe in god or any reigion and honestly I can't really place God or any spiritual thing in climbing. (but I can't place it ANYWHERE)

Now, what I can place in climbing is what (most) religions try to tell people, i.e., the way people should behave.
You can tell your church grroup things like climbing gives you TRUST on people (your life is on the hands of the belayer). Or that it shows you that you shouldn't quit when things get too hard. And so on. Anyway, relate it the same way you would relate any group activity.


but again religion and politics should not be discussed here.

Poor YOU, how empty your experiences must be.


tempestwind


May 1, 2004, 8:12 PM
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I don't know why so many of you are against GOD. Going so far as to say GOD has nothing to do with climbing...When in fact GOD has everything to do with climbing.That is if you are fortunate enough to hear the Spirit within the mountains call to your Soul.
Because I "garauntee" it my friends if you are in a Life threatening situation, 9 times out of 10 you call on a Higher Power to save your ass. And I am not talking about S.A.R either.
I am not judging in no way shape or form. Nor do I prescribe to an official conformity of a religion. They are but rituals to one supreme source that many different people put there labels upon. Anyways> but to say that GOD or Spirituality have nothing to with climbing is about as ignorant a claim as saying that Iraq has WMD's.


nagatana


May 1, 2004, 8:43 PM
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But when you don't see God, should you strain yourself to make the metaphor?


Partner camhead


May 1, 2004, 9:02 PM
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In reply to:
I'm... a Climber (50% gym rat, 40% boulderer, 10% outdoor toproper)



In reply to:
My "religious" advice is this. If you go climbing, don't focus on the "Religious" aspect of it all. There is none.


uhhhhh.....

I will say nothing more on this topic.


sowr


May 1, 2004, 10:10 PM
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While the word 'rhetoric' has several applications, I would suggest "unsupported or inflated discourse" -- you are applying this to anti-God, to which, it may be applicable, it is, however, equally applicable to Christianity.

Judgement on people who do not agree with your beliefs is the root of conflict and intolerance.

While you may personally believe that you have an in-road to the truth, please do not judge those of us who walk a more difficult path, that of pragmatism, reason and hopefully humility in the face of a Universe which is hopelessly beyond our capabilities to understand.


vincent


May 1, 2004, 10:24 PM
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God is not a hang dog


theangryenchilada


May 1, 2004, 10:27 PM
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i cant believe that dr. kodos isnt here yet...


qpang


May 1, 2004, 10:29 PM
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build your anchors upon a rock, for if you build them in sand you will be washed away. :roll:

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