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miagi
Apr 15, 2002, 1:11 AM
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(Do not try this method unless you are highly experienced in lead climbing. This method can be very dangerous or deadly so it is absolutely not recommended for any beginner)
Not sure if this was covered before, and im sure alot of climbers know about it. For those that don't, ill explain a clipping technique ive used on a few routes because the holds were crappy.
Usually on a 4-6/7 bolt route (~40-60 ft), ill stare down the route and look at the bolt placements. After ive done that, ill clip some quickdraws to my closest gear loop (bolt end biner). Once ive done that, ill clip the rope end of my draws onto the rope. All you have to do now is take the draw off your gear loop, and clip it in (for the hard to make clips). Your draw is already connected to the rope, so there is no need to clip your rope in. The only drawbacks are these:
1. There is rope drag if you just unclip the draw from your gear loop and try to clip in. Sometimes ill take the rope up and bite it down with my teeth, then take the draw off the gear loop to make it easier.
2. Backclipping is possible, as this is for experienced climbers only.
2. For people who want draw placement to be at maximum safety, you have to align your rope end of the draw to the way in which you will be moving up the route. (IE-gate facing left if your moving right, gate facing right if your moving left) This is sometimes annoying and confusing to be moving your draw placement, so beware if your not experienced.
I find this type of clipping to be very useful if your strength is failing, the holds presented before you are not solid, or your on a crux clip. Instead of clipping the draw, then clipping the rope, you can do it all in one easy step.
Make sure there is no tension from the draw pulling on the gear loop. Tighten your line to test it before you climb. Also, the knot you tie in with must be a low profile knot. I use a figure 8 and run the rope back down through the knot. Any backup knot (overhand/figure 8 )you place over your figure eight/bowline will get in the way of the quickdraw and might event in injury, so it is imperative you check your equipment.)
[ This Message was edited by: miagi on 2002-04-16 11:03 ]
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metoliusmunchkin
Apr 15, 2002, 8:10 PM
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Thank you so much Mike!! I have been waiting for a topic like this! My clipping technique bites (as you could tell from the link below)!
http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=8845&forum=36&7
Your help is greately appreciated!
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miagi
Apr 16, 2002, 2:52 AM
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Your welcome Pat, I hope it helps you out on your next climb. I know that it has helped me out alot!
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qacwac
Apr 16, 2002, 3:58 AM
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Yeah thanks Miagi. I'm just learning to lead and this will definately help at some point.
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woodse
Apr 16, 2002, 4:52 AM
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That seems good until you take a whipper...sounds to me like you would rip your gear loop off.
woodsE
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maculated
Apr 16, 2002, 4:52 AM
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This doesn't seem like a very good idea to me. If you're in a situation where the clipping into the bolt is tough, it's usually not clipping into the bolt, it's clipping the rope in.
And that said, if you've got the rope clipped into the draw already, you have to pull up the rope (prematurely to clipping in), get it in your mouth, unhook the quickdraw (which is in an awkward position from you holding rope in mouth, most likely), and then clip it in.
With the rope already through the draw, I'd assume that back clipping with this method is fairly common. It just seems like a lot more work. Plus, if this bolt is something you don't feel safe about placing and you're trying to save time, sitting there with extra slack in the rope for an unneccessary amount of time (and in your mouth, no less) is pretty dangerous. If you're really busting about falling on a rope placement, I guess you can always drop the rope and grab the draw.
It also occurs to me that you put your draws on both sides and depending on your position, you clip with the right or left hand. Can't do that with the rope clipped in on one side.
[ This Message was edited by: maculated on 2002-04-15 21:55 ]
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cass
Apr 16, 2002, 10:10 AM
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I think a health warning should be posted on any topic miagi posts to
double check with a reliable source, any posts by miagi before proceeding, as otherwise it could lead to injury or even death
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congo
Apr 16, 2002, 11:35 AM
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i dont think its a good idea too.. ..you can really hurt your harness if your draw slings are short.. ..if you know the route though i guess you can always just have 1 or 2 draws clipped into the rope and into your front harness loop (for the crux clips), ive never tried it though, i just thought of it then, i dont think it would affect rope drag much.. ..i guess i will have to try it out
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miagi
Apr 16, 2002, 11:40 AM
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Ok cass, that was not needed and another flame war is not wanted either. For your information, the clipping technique came from a reliable source (Trailside guide to climbing). It was one of my older books that I did not read throughly, and I picked it up to read the whole thing. When I did, I found this technique.
As for your gear loop being ripped off; I always feed the end of the rope back down through the figure eight so it does not get in the way. I taken falls with my quickdraws attached to my gear loop and it does not rip off. Just make sure when the rope is tight, your quickdraws are not pulling hard against your gear loop. They should just lay there.
Maculated is right that backclipping can happen. Ive messed up once and didnt know it (and i did change the draw back), but ive correct myself and always looked out for that. The position really wasnt ackward for me, but im not sure if you would think so. Putting the rope in my mouth and biting down on it, is usually the way I regularly clip in. It didnt make much of a difference when I was using this other technique.
Anyways, im just trying to help
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screamer
Apr 16, 2002, 1:42 PM
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seems to me if your climbing a route at your max difficulty you should pre place your draws. Now adays most people accept a pinkpoint as a redpoint(i sure do). And if you still can't clip a bolt, skip it (if its safe to do so)...I think your method complicates things, plus i'm lazy.
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killclimbz
Apr 16, 2002, 2:12 PM
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Don't forget if you are really pumped, you can reach out and grab a hold of that nice big nylon hand hold and get an easy clip.
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miagi
Apr 16, 2002, 3:16 PM
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The routes that I have used this on were already previously climbed by myself. I only use this method when I know which bolts are crux clips. Any other time I use the regular method of clipping them in seperate. Sometimes, like stated before, Ill clip a few on my loop and the rest Ill do the regular method.
I'd recommend that you test the lengths of your draws before you start out. Try clipping two on your harness and pulling your rope tight to see if there is any tension on the gear loop. Also, the way you tie into the harness matters. If your tying in with either bowline or figure eight, and you add an extra double overhand/figure eight as a stopper knot, this method wont work because the rope will pull on the draws and rip your loop off. I just tie in using the f8 and running the end of the rope back down through the knot.
Ive also added a warning and updated comments from others to please others and hopefully prevent others from doing something they should not be attempting.
[ This Message was edited by: miagi on 2002-04-16 08:58 ]
[ This Message was edited by: miagi on 2002-04-16 09:05 ]
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joemor
Apr 18, 2002, 11:07 PM
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good idea miagi.... ive used the technique and it works fine, its just somthing else you can arm yourself with at those crux clips, it simply adds options to your climbing, it might not work in all clips but just once it may be the difference between a onsight and a redpoint.
the one thing to watch i if you drop the draw especially at a high first clip it slides down the rope to the belayer at great speed, just somthing to look out for,
joe
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crux_clipper
Apr 19, 2002, 2:16 PM
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Yes, draws sliding down to the belayer is not good. They actually fall pretty fast.
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miagi
Apr 19, 2002, 5:59 PM
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I accidenly dropped some draws down the rope onto my girlfriend.....she wasnt that happy lol
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dontneedfeet
Apr 19, 2002, 6:28 PM
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Personally, I'd much rather just hang the draws before hand. If you're climbing at your limit, who cares?
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ravens_wing_jim
Apr 20, 2002, 6:02 AM
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If your too damned pumped at the crux
to clip the bolt,
then just take the freakin fall!
Welcome to sport climbing.
Falling is part of the game boy-o!
And sending a draw at a 100 miles an hour
to smack me,
doesnt make Jim a happy belayer.
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apollodorus
Apr 20, 2002, 6:27 AM
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I have NO idea what you guys are talking about. Clip this, do this, this, this,
You're supposed to be on rock, climbing. If you train on plastic, fine. But, this wierd schnitt about "I gotta clip, how do I clip, I'm supposed to clip, where the hell is the clip....?"
Go do some rock, fer chrissakes. And stop worrying about the "clip" or the "bentgate" or whatever.
I will NOT say that gym and sport climbing is way homo, but, you gotta get onto the rock, man.
What sort of summit can you achieve without going Full Trad?
G
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wandt
Apr 20, 2002, 6:45 AM
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I find that for crux clips, I try to get well above the clip, so the bolt is slightly below my waist. Then I unclip the draw from my gear loop and clip the bolt in one fell swoop. Also, then the rope is right there, ready and easy to clip, no shoulder-tiring taking up rope, or biting rope required. You may think that this results in bigger falls if I miss the clip, but, if you look at it, the falls are 2'-3' LESS than if you funble a shoulder-height/higher clip!
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joemor
Apr 22, 2002, 8:39 AM
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true.... ill think bout that before reaching waaaaaaay above my head to make the next crux "safer".
joe
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apollodorus
Apr 22, 2002, 8:52 AM
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Those that can, do. Those that can't teach.
Eh, Miagi?
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miagi
Apr 22, 2002, 4:57 PM
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huh? Im confused.
Anyways, the tip was acquired from Trailside Guide to Climbing. I missed the tip when i skimmed over it when i began climbing, and since i was bored, i read the whole thing and found the tip. You might like it, you may not. I find it helpful, because I like to have my pro setup before I tackle the crux. I would rather take a 4 foot fall than a larger one. I guess it depends on your situation. The reason I like this clipping technique, is because the routes that ive used it on have bolts right near a crux. The crux has to be dynoed, and the bolt is almost out of my reach. I just feel uncomfortable dynoing without at least trying to clip into that bolt. Just use the technique on routes you have previously climbed, therefore you know when it is best to use it.
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traddaddy
Apr 22, 2002, 8:07 PM
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I have often used this method for the 1st bolt, so I don't fiddle faddle around and can keep climbing.
If you guys are worried about getting hit with a little quickdraw from above, whaaaaaa Try to dodge that #4 camalot coming down at you as you're seconding a wandering trad route!
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miagi
Apr 23, 2002, 3:58 PM
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Close your eyes and put your hand over your balls!
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jgorris
Apr 23, 2002, 4:29 PM
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The crux has to be dynoed, and the bolt is almost out of my reach. I just feel uncomfortable dynoing without at least trying to clip into that bolt.
Sounds like terrible bolt placements. Route must have been drilled by knucklehead.
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